I think you're oversimplifying things here the same players are expected to play in whichever formation you put forth... Both Iniesta and Messi are playing at a really high level. More so than at any stage in the recent past. Coutinho has been signed, Dembélé is here and Paulinho offers new things in midfield.Now, let's fast forward to 2018 and what can we expect?
1. we don't have Xavi anymore. Iniesta is a granny and Messi is 30+.
So, on an individual level, a simple logic implies that we won't be even close to 2009's 433, and that we will be way weaker even than 2013's or 2014's 433 in terms of individual skill.
2. about our attacking 433 play, teams will park 2 buses again and we'll face the same good old problems as in late Pep's days or in post-Pep's days when it was painful to watch our sterile 433.
3. our pressure will be poor.
a) because teams figured out how to escape from our pressure
b) because our midfielders are 30+ and they can't run too much
4. we will be prone to counters again, as always
But this is happening with the 4-4-2 too. Particularly recently and with no creative wide players in your double pivot workhorse system the centre just gets clogged. With the 4-2-3-1 the double pivot (of which neither is a playmaker) is a parked buses dream because the opposition just press us wide and play counters when the wide men lose the ball which is inevitable.So, I am not saying that 442 is perfect.
But it surely is different and somewhat new (for our opponents).
If we'll go back to 433, imo, we can expect EXACTLY the same problems as in all post-Pep's years.
The opponents will play exactly the same against us, and we won't have any new ideas.
We will just pass the ball around the box till death.
Sometimes (against weaker opponents) it will work. But when we'll meet a stronger team, we will be absolutely sterile in attack against their crowded middle around their box.
Why are you laughing?So, for guys who want 433 back ("because our players will fit well into 433", lol), can you please try to find some TACTICAL solutions how to improve our game:
1. against 2 parked buses and crowded middle around the box
2. how to use flanks better since we can't cross?
3. what to do with our pressure since teams figured us out?
4. how to defend against fast counters in a CL KO matches, in for example: Coutinho-Rakitic-Busquets trio where Coutinho and 3 forwards don't defend and Rakitic and Busquets are 2 turtles?
Add to this at least 1 out of Alba/Roberto bombing forward and we will see 10 counters per match where Busquets-Pique-Umtiti need to defend against 4-5 opponents.
2. Who says we can't cross? Dembélé has already shown that he can put dangerous balls into the box both aerially and low down. Alba too...
4. It's a myth that Coutinho and even Dembélé don't defend.
About crosses, Dembele can cross.
But to whom will he cross?
To Messi, Iniesta, Coutinho and similar?
We are the shortest top team in the world.
Suarez is the only guy who can get some arial duels.
Then, compare our Cfs with Cfs of RM or Bayern and you will understand why are we onedimensional and they aren't.
This is why I am constantly asking for SOME stronger midfielders and some stronger Cfs.
When you build a team around Cfs like Aguero and midfielders like Coutinho and Iniesta, you can't do anything else but play shortpasses and throughballs through the middle and on the ground.
And then, when the opponents park 2 buses around their box, you are in big troubles.
When you have Cr7 and Benzema upfront, you can play BOTH Barca's shortpassing game and play some crosses.
Again, this is why, imo, in KO matches RM is miles infront of us in terms of options.
"Barca's way of playing" is quite onedimensional.
It is strong and efficient, though.
But when the opponents stop you, we don't have any other ideas.
I love to call Barca's and Pep's style: do the same thing for 100 times in a row and hope for the best.
If it is not working, well, just try to do the same thing for 100 times again and again and hope that it will magically work better this time.
More or less, this is our Plan B since Pep's days. No plan B.
But also, we can't have a plan B due to short and technical players who can play football only in one way.
4. About Dembele and Coutinho defending.
Coutinho is defending like Denis currently.
And Dembele and tackling shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence, for now. It is so awkward to watch him trying to defend.
And as Hamzah said, how will we play 433 when Messi wants to play in the middle?
In short when you sum everything:
1. Messi in the middle
2. Coutinho, Dembele and Messi not defending
3. opponents will park 2 buses and we don't have a plan B against 2 buses
4. opponents know how to handle our pressure
5. opponents mastered counters against 433
6. our individual quality is weaker than in 2009 or 2011
= basically, you can only get a bad copy of Pep's 433
If people are dreaming about glory days and how we could play as good as back then in 433, imo, that is almost impossible and will never happen again.
If you are satisfied with some bad copy of a former 433, then fine.
But that way, we could also play 442 or something else, because a poor copy of 433 won't be much stronger than other current formations.
About crosses, Dembele can cross.
But to whom will he cross?
To Messi, Iniesta, Coutinho and similar?
We are the shortest top team in the world.
Suarez is the only guy who can get some arial duels.
Then, compare our Cfs with Cfs of RM or Bayern and you will understand why are we onedimensional and they aren't.
This is why I am constantly asking for SOME stronger midfielders and some stronger Cfs.
When you build a team around Cfs like Aguero and midfielders like Coutinho and Iniesta, you can't do anything else but play shortpasses and throughballs through the middle and on the ground.
And then, when the opponents park 2 buses around their box, you are in big troubles.
When you have Cr7 and Benzema upfront, you can play BOTH Barca's shortpassing game and play some crosses.
Again, this is why, imo, in KO matches RM is miles infront of us in terms of options.
"Barca's way of playing" is quite onedimensional.
It is strong and efficient, though.
But when the opponents stop you, we don't have any other ideas.
I love to call Barca's and Pep's style: do the same thing for 100 times in a row and hope for the best.
If it is not working, well, just try to do the same thing for 100 times again and again and hope that it will magically work better this time.
More or less, this is our Plan B since Pep's days. No plan B.
But also, we can't have a plan B due to short and technical players who can play football only in one way.
4. About Dembele and Coutinho defending.
Coutinho is defending like Denis currently.
And Dembele and tackling shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence, for now. It is so awkward to watch him trying to defend.
And as Hamzah said, how will we play 433 when Messi wants to play in the middle?
In short when you sum everything:
1. Messi in the middle
2. Coutinho, Dembele and Messi not defending
3. opponents will park 2 buses and we don't have a plan B against 2 buses
4. opponents know how to handle our pressure
5. opponents mastered counters against 433
6. our individual quality is weaker than in 2009 or 2011
= basically, you can only get a bad copy of Pep's 433
If people are dreaming about glory days and how we could play as good as back then in 433, imo, that is almost impossible and will never happen again.
If you are satisfied with some bad copy of a former 433, then fine.
But that way, we could also play 442 or something else, because a poor copy of 433 won't be much stronger than other current formations.
About crosses, Dembele can cross.
But to whom will he cross?
To Messi, Iniesta, Coutinho and similar?
We are the shortest top team in the world.
Suarez is the only guy who can get some arial duels.
Then, compare our Cfs with Cfs of RM or Bayern and you will understand why are we onedimensional and they aren't.
This is why I am constantly asking for SOME stronger midfielders and some stronger Cfs.
When you build a team around Cfs like Aguero and midfielders like Coutinho and Iniesta, you can't do anything else but play shortpasses and throughballs through the middle and on the ground.
And then, when the opponents park 2 buses around their box, you are in big troubles.
When you have Cr7 and Benzema upfront, you can play BOTH Barca's shortpassing game and play some crosses.
Again, this is why, imo, in KO matches RM is miles infront of us in terms of options.
"Barca's way of playing" is quite onedimensional.
It is strong and efficient, though.
But when the opponents stop you, we don't have any other ideas.
I love to call Barca's and Pep's style: do the same thing for 100 times in a row and hope for the best.
If it is not working, well, just try to do the same thing for 100 times again and again and hope that it will magically work better this time.
More or less, this is our Plan B since Pep's days. No plan B.
But also, we can't have a plan B due to short and technical players who can play football only in one way.
4. About Dembele and Coutinho defending.
Coutinho is defending like Denis currently.
And Dembele and tackling shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence, for now. It is so awkward to watch him trying to defend.
And as Hamzah said, how will we play 433 when Messi wants to play in the middle?
In short when you sum everything:
1. Messi in the middle
2. Coutinho, Dembele and Messi not defending
3. opponents will park 2 buses and we don't have a plan B against 2 buses
4. opponents know how to handle our pressure
5. opponents mastered counters against 433
6. our individual quality is weaker than in 2009 or 2011
= basically, you can only get a bad copy of Pep's 433
If people are dreaming about glory days and how we could play as good as back then in 433, imo, that is almost impossible and will never happen again.
If you are satisfied with some bad copy of a former 433, then fine.
But that way, we could also play 442 or something else, because a poor copy of 433 won't be much stronger than other current formations.
And the problems to play a 4-3-3 with Messi Suarez Dembele Couthino Iniesta........good luck to Valverde
Twist: BBZ is AI.
His house is right next to Suarez and Messi's and Suarez said Messi had great security.
Those guys must be professionals lol. In broad daylight too.