7 - Philippe Coutinho - V1

[serghei]

I dont know what the solution is. He plays in a position which slowly is becoming outdated in modern football. A true AM with little to no defensive work like Ozil, Mata and so on. Hard working players like D.Silva and B.Silva were able to change their game.

I dont think its a Valverde-issue. Even Klopp was surprised when we wanted him be a interior because he can't press, defend nor run that much.

And he isn't a forward either.

If any club offer close to 120, i would sell

Klopp said he doesn't know why we signed him while talking about Valverde system and how he would fit in. The reality is Valverde's system doesn't have room for him. He was used as a right wide midfielder and a left wide midfielder in a 4 midfield and as a left winger. Klopp basically said he doesn't see Coutinho as a wide midfielder having to do a lot of running over longer distances, and he doesn't understand why would we sign him for the LW spot when we have Dembele signed exactly for that.

Klopp actually used Coutinho quite often while having 3 more attacking players than him: Mane, Salah and Firmino. Valverde doesn't use Coutinho while also using Dembele on the field. Point is Valverde doesn't want to risk anything defensively, even against the lower sides, by playing Coutinho as an AM in a midfield 3.

I keep wondering myself that. Why did we sign an attacking midfielder if our manager wants to play with 3 high workrate defensive midfielders behind the front three for extra safety. Valverde isn't using him in the Iniesta position. Iniesta played AM in midfield 3 almost all his career at Barcelona. Coutinho almost never played there for us under Valverde, because there's no room for an offensive midfielder in our 3. Simple as that.

Out of curiousity is there a single game against a decent, not even great team, where Coutinho, Dembele, Messi and Suare started at the same time? I honestly don't remember that.

 

[Respekt_III]

Politics that's why.

 

[Jombi]

That's not true. Klopp said he doesn't know why we signed him while talking about Valverde uses for him, which are wide left midfielders in a 4 midfield and left winger. Klopp basically said he doesn't see Coutinho as a left midfielder having to do a lot of running over longer distances, and he doesn't understand why would we sign him when we have Dembele signed exactly for the LW spot.

I keep wondering myself that. Why did we sign an attacking midfielder if our manager wants to play with 3 high workrate defensive midfielders behind the front three for extra safety.

Has Klopp confirmed that he actually said any of that?

 

[Messigician]

Has Klopp confirmed that he actually said any of that?

No

 

[serghei]

Has Klopp confirmed that he actually said any of that?

No. But even if he did, it doesn't prove much as he was talking about Valverde's system basically and how Coutinho is not a very good fit for it. Not about Coutinho not being a great player or one that wouldn't fit us if we make some tactical changes here and there.

 

[Givenchy]

well if he did say that, hey Klopp how about joining us next summer to get the best out of Coutinho

 

[DonAK]

No. But even if he did, it doesn't prove much as he was talking about Valverde's system basically and how Coutinho is not a very good fit for it. Not about Coutinho not being a great player or one that wouldn't fit us if we make some tactical changes here and there.

Klopp didn't say that. If you read the article by Diego Torres he's claiming Klopp said that to his sources. If you know Diego Torres' history you'd know he's become a huge BS artist.

Why would Klopp's confidantes talk to him out of all people when he has no connection to Spain or El Pais as a paper?

That said, Valverde's system do indeed suck. He doesn't play a progressive style of possession-based football nor the more direct counter-attacking style we saw more of under Lucho.

It's just slow, stale football where individualism is the only way we can win. And unless you're Messi, it's easy to get lost under something like that when you're unaware of your role. Heck even Messi gets lost in it.

 

[FCB1987]

why are people writing off Coutinho as a midfielder when he's mostly done well whenever he's played there?

 

[YodaMaster]

why are people writing off Coutinho as a midfielder when he's mostly done well whenever he's played there?

Because we conceded goals and he didn't have 20 ball recoveries when he played there. So we should never ever try him there again. He's an old guy who can't progress and that's not coach fault because as we all know: players have to develop themselves in their living room at their houses. Practices, trainings, all those stuffs aren't the right place to make players work on their weaknesses.

I hear Barça had its most impressive and spectacular win in La Liga this season against Huesca when Coutinho played in midfield behin Messi Suarez Dembélé. 8-2 final score. Well, you see those 2 goals we conceded ? It's actually really horrific. That's why now we play with 3 DMs at Camp Nou.

Who cares about spectacular and offensive football as long as we get those clean sheets ?

 

[Potroh]

Because we conceded goals and he didn't have 20 ball recoveries when he played there. So we should never ever try him there again. He's an old guy who can't progress and that's not coach fault because as we all know: players have to develop themselves in their living room at their houses. Practices, trainings, all those stuffs aren't the right place to make players work on their weaknesses.

I hear Barça had its most impressive and spectacular win in La Liga this season against Huesca when Coutinho played in midfield behin Messi Suarez Dembélé. 8-2 final score. Well, you see those 2 goals we conceded ? It's actually really horrific. That's why now we play with 3 DMs at Camp Nou.

Who cares about spectacular and offensive football as long as we get those clean sheets ?

Ahhh... so Countinho is too old and the beauty of football is not to concede any goals ever... I see...
So 8:2 is a bad result because of the two goals and the best result is a well deserved 0:0 the ultimate result without conceding. Wise...
Who cares about scoring eight goals???

Thus you want Barca to become a heavily defending team. Even wiser...
I guess you should rather watch boxing matches where Joe is just getting and getting those punches and never hits back... Ah, there are no matches like that... Doesn't matter...

Let's buy the best defenders of the world and sell Coutinho, Messi, Suarez and Dembele!!!
Good old Munir is enough as the attacking section...
Who cares about spectacular and offensive football?
Only 98% of all spectators, with the rare exceptions of pitiful ones...

 

[jamrock]

Yoda is being sarcastic

 

[Respekt_III]

why are people writing off Coutinho as a midfielder when he's mostly done well whenever he's played there?

He Didn't do well though, He done ok against mediocre opponents. Ok against mediocre opponents is not good enough for a Barca player especially considering his price tag/wages. He needs to play there much more often to develop his game there but i just don't see that happening under valverde (who has only played him 3 times in CM this year!).

The issue is that we paid so much for a player we can't even use effectively. We shouldn't be paying that much for a player who we can only play against weak teams because of the players/system we have. I agree with most of the guys in that if Valverde or a similar manager are manager then its best to sell him for his and our sake.

 

[Arizona Scott]

...The issue is that we paid so much for a player we can't even use effectively. We shouldn't be paying that much for a player who we can only play against weak teams because of the players/system we have....

Or maybe we acquire the kind of midfielders where he could thrive. (Hum, Rabiot, possibly De Jong, added Vidal as a stop gap this year). Seems to me we are trying to add more pace with the natural decline of Busquets and Rakitic, who were not pacy to start with.

The move for Countinho was not "political". He had been one of the best midfielders in the EPL and if you don't think he was feared and respected you didn't follow closely. That is why Klopp wanted to keep him so badly, he is a special player, and with Neymar gone and Iniesta about done the club realized they sorely needed some more creative players and weapons. Last year he was also a substantial part of winning the double and it was early on he added a substantial punch, he didn't play in the CL so what happened there has no bearing to him.

Some of others in this threat mentioned Eriksen. Him, and Ali, and Mahrez, as well as other examples such as D Silva, James, Alonso, and Isco are NOT known for defensive contributions either, yet all but Silva (because of age) would go for >80 million. Mahrez (1.5 years older) and didn't have as many high performing years as Countinho, and he just went for that (bought by Pep no less). Remember City often plays two among De Brunyne, Silva and Mahrez when fitness permits, but the workrate from the forwards, and particularly the wings, is huge.

Barca can get 100mil+ for Countiho if they just don't think it will work out, but it looks to me they are overhauling the midfield and maybe more, and too soon to tell if PC should be part of the long term future as of yet, for now I don't think there is any intent to sell.

 

[Messigician]

I think he eill start i midfield today. Just a hunch but got that feeling

 

[Respekt_III]

Or maybe we acquire the kind of midfielders where he could thrive. (Hum, Rabiot, possibly De Jong, added Vidal as a stop gap this year). Seems to me we are trying to add more pace with the natural decline of Busquets and Rakitic, who were not pacy to start with.

I'm not sure but is Rabiot actually pacey? I also don't think we will be getting De Jong if reports are to be believed (if true we definitely shouldn't). If we have the right players around Coutinho then he would definitely be viable even against high quality opponents.

The move for Countinho was not "political". He had been one of the best midfielders in the EPL and if you don't think he was feared and respected you didn't follow closely. That is why Klopp wanted to keep him so badly, he is a special player, and with Neymar gone and Iniesta about done the club realized they sorely needed some more creative players and weapons. Last year he was also a substantial part of winning the double and it was early on he added a substantial punch, he didn't play in the CL so what happened there has no bearing to him.

I Think the move was definitely Political, everything points to it. He wasn't really a midfielder in the EPL though and there was only one season were he was very good. The previous seasons he was very inconstant. why would someone take that type of risk on something that may not work? It just never made sense to anyone with two eyes and a brain. Apparently Klop thinks the same.

He played half a season so i dont see him being that critical

Some of others in this threat mentioned Eriksen. Him, and Ali, and Mahrez, as well as other examples such as D Silva, James, Alonso, and Isco are NOT known for defensive contributions either, yet all but Silva (because of age) would go for >80 million. Mahrez (1.5 years older) and didn't have as many high performing years as Countinho, and he just went for that (bought by Pep no less). Remember City often plays two among De Brunyne, Silva and Mahrez when fitness permits, but the workrate from the forwards, and particularly the wings, is huge.

I disagree

list of 80m+ players
Mahrez- bought beginning of season for 60m <80m
Erikson- Little to no time left on contract definitely <80m
Dele Ali- over rated regardless has hype/english tax could go for 80m
james- buy option for bayern of like 40m? <80m
Alonso- no need to explain <80m
Isco- probably close to 80m

As for Work rate
Erikson- has a very good work rate...
David Silva- under pep presses and closes down quite well
Mahrez- not great but still does it decently* with city, He is definitely a liability compared to sterling & sane
Dele Ali- presses as all spurs players do.
james- dont know dont really watch him, had the team around him to be able to do that but is currently out of favor
Alonso- He's not the most athletic winger as is definitely a liability in Chelsea's team.
Isco- had the team around him to be able to do that but is currently out of favor

Barca can get 100mil+ for Countiho if they just don't think it will work out, but it looks to me they are overhauling the midfield and maybe more, and too soon to tell if PC should be part of the long term future as of yet, for now I don't think there is any intent to sell.

Do you ever see Valverde dropping Raki/Busqets unless they're injured? That's why i said if we have valverde/similar type manager next season nothing is going to change, so we should sell.

I would really really like a pep type manager rather then a c grade Mourinho.