8 - Pedri

serghei

Senior Member
I don't see a clear position for him in Barca's classical 433.

Not too physical for a lone pivot.
Weird CM (Xavi's position) who gets rid of the ball too fast and is not involved that much in possession.
Not attacking enough for Iniesta's possession in a world after Messi where Barca's midfielders need to take some of a goalscoring burden.

Laplacian compared him with other current midfielders.
He is good.
But other options are:
Frenkie who is also shoehorned into a 433 and doesn't have a clear midfield position where he particularly excels.
Busi, who was done like 5 years ago.
PR machine Puig.
Coutinho who also doesn't have a clear position in 433.

Him being the best or top2 midfielders of ours doesn't say much and might skew the judgement, paired with an eternal need for new kids to raise our hope for the future.

Something similar is saying: Araujo is our best CB, how can you not like him?
When the competition is: done Pique, bad Lenglet, done Umtiti, Barca DNA meh player Eric and so-so wild Mingueza.

I have asked a question about Pedri's position at Barca, I don't think that I got any answers except:
1. Iniesta also wasn't a scorer.
True, but he played with 50-goals per season Messi and technical-sterile in attack CAM was perfect for that lineup (we just needed to keep the ball or eventually pass it to Messi).
2. Or: he plays well for Spain.
True, but Spain just dwells on ball, dominates possession and can't finish any opponent.
I am not sure that Spain is a direction where trophies and football will go in the future.

Pedri has some nice skills, he is young.
But he also has some flaws and my biggest point is: he doesn't excel on any mudfield position in 433 for teams who are shooting for a CL glory (the highest level).

For him to play the same as for Spain, we would need to surround him with possession merchant players who can have 80% of possession.
But again, we have Frenkie and some more direct players and 80% of possession and dwelling on a ball is not a direction in which modern CL winning teams are moving.

So, for now, I still don't see that Pedri's magic for the top-top level.
I know, I know, he is young.
But player's DNA and deadly flaws rarely change.

We get it, you don't like the 4-3-3.

I have asked a question about Pedri's position at Barca, I don't think that I got any answers except:
1. Iniesta also wasn't a scorer.
True, but he played with 50-goals per season Messi and technical-sterile in attack CAM was perfect for that lineup (we just needed to keep the ball or eventually pass it to Messi).
2. Or: he plays well for Spain.
True, but Spain just dwells on ball, dominates possession and can't finish any opponent.
I am not sure that Spain is a direction where trophies and football will go in the future.

Pedri has some nice skills, he is young.
But he also has some flaws and my biggest point is: he doesn't excel on any mudfield position in 433 for teams who are shooting for a CL glory (the highest level).

For him to play the same as for Spain, we would need to surround him with possession merchant players who can have 80% of possession.
But again, we have Frenkie and some more direct players and 80% of possession and dwelling on a ball is not a direction in which modern CL winning teams are moving.

So, for now, I still don't see that Pedri's magic for the top-top level.
I know, I know, he is young.
But player's DNA and deadly flaws rarely change.

He is a midfield playmaker-passer.

In 4-3-3 you need:

1) a DM
2) a midfield playmaker and passer. There's a lot of midfielders who were playmakers and not scorers, nor defenders. Take Pirlo. Not a Kaka in the slightest, not even a Seedorf offensively, not a Gatusso either. He was the guy connecting defense to attack in a more creative way than his midfield partners.
3) a box to box / AM. Think Seydou Keita or Iniesta.

Pedri fits in 2).

But for 2) to actually shine you need a manager that is using midfield combinations a lot, a possession-based manager. Xavi was a sub at the 2006 World Cup because the Spanish manager at the time was a Koeman-type.

Under top possession-based managers the ball is played infield a lot. Under more average ones the ball advances down the line instead, because defending teams ALWAYS concede spaces wide, and crowd central zones, so the crappier managers just take the bait and use wider areas to move the ball.

Guardiola used to even forbid this type of wide progression from fullback to winger because it's a crap progression in terms of quality. In elite possession managers, you even see fullbacks taking more of an inward position acting as pseudo-midfielders. Watch Walker or Zinchenko for City. Or watch Tuchel as well.

Pedri is getting game time from Koeman which is great but to make the next key step he needs a better manager, someone who knows how to set up a midfield. Koeman can't even dictate the game vs freaking Getafe. And unfortunately, Pedri won't be a top box-to-box player able to score goals in the big games. So, if he's not a defender, not a good scorer, and the manager doesn't know how to setup a midfield properly, he's lost.

So, it's not that Pedri is not a 4-3-3 player. It's Koeman who is not a 4-3-3 manager. He is a 4-2-3-1 manager if I ever saw one.
 
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CatalinR10

Senior Member
Euro-P-E-D-R-I-Young-Player-of.jpg



Keep hating.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Bbz and Puig lovers taking a swing at Pedri together. Pedri united the opposites.

Hardly. I'm taking swings at Koeman.

Don't know if you noticed, but none of our managers except Guardiola in the last 20 years or so got any offers from other clubs comparable to Barca.

Koeman will be the most recent one in the list. Don't expect Liverpool, Chelsea, Bayern to come knocking for him. Or any other club of that level. We've been settling for too low of a standard in management for so long. This was fine as long as we had ubber-class players like Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc. It's not okay anymore.
 
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Redbuck

Member
Hardly. I'm taking swings at Koeman.

Don't know if you noticed, but none of our managers except Guardiola in the last 20 years or so got any offers from other clubs comparable to Barca.

Koeman will be the most recent one in the list. Don't expect Liverpool, Chelsea, Bayern to come knocking for him. Or any other club of that level. We've been settling for too low of a standard in management for so long. This was fine as long as we had ubber-class players like Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc. It's not okay anymore.

Barca will always have very talented players in it's ranks, the manager's job is to harness the level of potential in the team in order to deliver trophies, and it does not always need a world class manager to do so. Not appointing world class manager's, from a general perspective has worked for us (when considering the number of trophies won), and you don't change things for the sake of changing, you change things when they do not work for you.
 

Joan

Well-known member
Hardly. I'm taking swings at Koeman.

Don't know if you noticed, but none of our managers except Guardiola in the last 20 years or so got any offers from other clubs comparable to Barca.

Koeman will be the most recent one in the list. Don't expect Liverpool, Chelsea, Bayern to come knocking for him. Or any other club of that level. We've been settling for too low of a standard in management for so long. This was fine as long as we had ubber-class players like Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc. It's not okay anymore.

Didn't even think of you, just wanted to put Bobo and bbz in the same basket. While we're at it, though...

It's true. Barca has (for some time now) been riddled with big ego stars who demanded the club did their way or the highway. That's why many passive, adaptable, 'weak' managers were hired. We might disagree about it, but some of those were rather decent. Valverde is a good coach, not world class, but a skillful, old school one. And he didn't manage Barca the same way he did with Bilbao. If he did, more could've been done here.

I think Koeman is just an average coach. Not too good at anything. Which is a shame, if he was just a bit better, his character would be great to have in transition. Barca doesn't only need a great coach, but also a new leader. A place that players shouldn't get this time.

And I hope that's not Xavi.
 

Redbuck

Member
And besides, we may not have the finances to hire a world class manager in 2-3 years, so we would have to employ a 'not much of a big name' kind of coach (which is usually a 'Barca DNA' kind of coach). I am not saying that Koeman should stay on as Barca coach, instead, I'm being realistic by saying that we can't get a world class coach as replacement when he leaves.
 

Joan

Well-known member
And besides, we may not have the finances to hire a world class manager in 2-3 years, so we would have to employ a 'not much of a big name' kind of coach (which is usually a 'Barca DNA' kind of coach). I am not saying that Koeman should stay on as Barca coach, instead, I'm being realistic by saying that we can't get a world class coach as replacement when he leaves.

Why wouldn't we? There are rumors Barca is couting on being competitive in the winter 2022 / summer 2023 window. There'll also likely be some budget for the next summer.

Plus, it's not like all world class coaches will ask for infinite transfer budget.

And if we cannot persuade a world class coach into joining us, then there's promising, rising coaches category to focus on. All better than the same old not great not terrible Barca dna generic coach.
 

Redbuck

Member
And if we cannot persuade a world class coach into joining us, then there's promising, rising coaches category to focus on. All better than the same old not great not terrible Barca dna generic coach.

You just paraphrased the point I was trying to make, dawg.
 

vegitot

Senior Member
If Koeman isn't a coach for 4-3-3, should he change the formation one and for all??? Can you imagine the front three of Depay - De Jong - Braithwaite???
 

snowy

Well-known member
short term, this 4-3-3 could do it ... vieleicht


. . . Memphis - Luuke - Yusuf
. . . . . Frenkie - Pedri - Bob
Alba - Araujo - Garcia - Dest/Mingu
 

snowy

Well-known member
DM takin a nap bruh :lol:


this one's a cross-breed 4-3-3


relying on all 3 mids putting up united defensive duty


Ur missing the game dude! Go Redz :D
 

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