8 - Pedri

[Bobo32]

He has always had flair, and a little attacking fire, but Koeman tried to build his midfielder tendencies a little more and I think we are slowly seeing the results.

He is still very young and his coaching from now will likely determine if he's still more risky as a player,but I very strongly feel if he was instructed to take less risks and slow down the game that he's well capable of it.

At the Euros I think he showed this well. Although not the finished article he can be brilliant at dictating play and its good to be a bit more forward minded as well instead of racking up pass completion stats with side passes.

I was eager to write "please don't give that to Koeman" but maybe it is correct, although I think it would be more indirectly by playing him all the time than by instruction...
And I also think it has a negative influence on his game. Yes I think he was at his best at the Euros, I hope he'll be able to take that position in between the lines a lot more at Barcelona, too.

But that is far from "controlling the tempo" the way I see it, controlling the tempo is what someone like Busquets does well, or Xavi before. Maybe Kroos too. I believe Pedri is much more of a tactical than a strategical player, still, and I think he plays too deep and tries to cover too much ground at the moment.

edit: here is a comparison I just made between some players, hope the link works: https://fbref.com/en/stathead/playe...b2d31&player_id5=f090a37a&player_id6=cfd65a29

I think Pedri should attempt to play more like Iniesta than try to play like Xavi, and I think he shouldn't even try to play like Iniesta, but maybe one step more to maybe imitate David Silva if anyone... But as you can see by comparing stats on that page, he is much less involved than Iniesta was, and he is also much less threatening at the same time. I think we seem to agree he should be a bit more forward minded, I think it suits his qualities.

 

[Zidane82]

I was eager to write "please don't give that to Koeman" but maybe it is correct, although I think it would be more indirectly by playing him all the time than by instruction...
And I also think it has a negative influence on his game. Yes I think he was at his best at the Euros, I hope he'll be able to take that position in between the lines a lot more at Barcelona, too.

But that is far from "controlling the tempo" the way I see it, controlling the tempo is what someone like Busquets does well, or Xavi before. Maybe Kroos too. I believe Pedri is much more of a tactical than a strategical player, still, and I think he plays too deep and tries to cover too much ground at the moment.

edit: here is a comparison I just made between some players, hope the link works: https://fbref.com/en/stathead/playe...b2d31&player_id5=f090a37a&player_id6=cfd65a29

I think Pedri should attempt to play more like Iniesta than try to play like Xavi, and I think he shouldn't even try to play like Iniesta, but maybe one step more to maybe imitate David Silva if anyone... But as you can see by comparing stats on that page, he is much less involved than Iniesta was, and he is also much less threatening at the same time. I think we seem to agree he should be a bit more forward minded, I think it suits his qualities.

Plus he is incredibly young !

 

[Zidane82]

I was eager to write "please don't give that to Koeman" but maybe it is correct, although I think it would be more indirectly by playing him all the time than by instruction...
And I also think it has a negative influence on his game. Yes I think he was at his best at the Euros, I hope he'll be able to take that position in between the lines a lot more at Barcelona, too.

But that is far from "controlling the tempo" the way I see it, controlling the tempo is what someone like Busquets does well, or Xavi before. Maybe Kroos too. I believe Pedri is much more of a tactical than a strategical player, still, and I think he plays too deep and tries to cover too much ground at the moment.

edit: here is a comparison I just made between some players, hope the link works: https://fbref.com/en/stathead/playe...b2d31&player_id5=f090a37a&player_id6=cfd65a29

I think Pedri should attempt to play more like Iniesta than try to play like Xavi, and I think he shouldn't even try to play like Iniesta, but maybe one step more to maybe imitate David Silva if anyone... But as you can see by comparing stats on that page, he is much less involved than Iniesta was, and he is also much less threatening at the same time. I think we seem to agree he should be a bit more forward minded, I think it suits his qualities.

Plus he is incredibly young !
Were Xavi and Iniesta starting and controlling every Barca game at 18 ?

 

[Bobo32]

Plus he is incredibly young !
Were Xavi and Iniesta starting and controlling every Barca game at 18 ?

I only watched Iniesta regularly at this age, and he was held back a bit I thought, he could've been given a lot more playing time. He played more advanced and was more threatening compared to Pedri right now, and didn't attempt to control the games. I think it is very hard for young players to do that, I do not think they should really try...

To repeat: Pedri plays too deeply, too safely, sees too little, is too little involved (!), and is playing on too low and too undynamic a tempo. Maybe in 5 years he'll be able to try and control the tempo by getting deep and deciding the direction and moment of play, but right now he'd be better off tweaking his movements in the hole and making sure he can control the ball to deliver the final pass/shot.

 

[Catta]

Bobo the type of guy who looks for any reason to criticize Pedri, but doesn't see any flaws in Busi and Puig.

 

[BusiTheKing]

Just notice:

Pedri last season in Laliga: 62.7 passes per 90
Zidane in 2001/02 Laliga: 55.7 passes per 90

who are you arguing against?

once again, I'm not talking about his historical performances, I'm talking about how he's performing for us right now.

I'm not saying they're a direct measure of how good a player is lol. Why would you assume that?

I never said it's a good 'stat on it's own'. A player can be plenty involved in a game and still have many other issues with his game.

I know. And I agree. But what was the point of the comment if not to argue that number of passes pr 90 isn't a good indicator of overall performance?

Which is a position I did not take.

I used number of passes as a broad indicator of general involvement in the passing game. That was my argument.

I have specifically said a number of times that I don't think it's anything like a measure of overall performance.

 

[vegitot]

who are you arguing against?

Pedri has better passing game than prime Zidane. Thanks

Also last season he has 62.7 passes per 90, so that should satisfies you at least

 

[Messi983]

Of course Pedri is better than Zidane. He's our gem while Zizou was a dirty madridista.

 

[BusiTheKing]

Pedri has better passing game than prime Zidane. Thanks

Also last season he has 62.7 passes per 90, so that should satisfies you at least

Do you have reading difficulties or something? I'm telling you for the fourth time now that I'm criticizing Pedri's current performance, not his talent or his potential or his past performances.

I have no allegiance sworn for or against him. I'm watching a game of football and I see that our game is slow and static and I look at one of our midfielders and I see that he completes less passes than our goalkeeper. I think that has something to do with our game not flowing. Other people disagree. It's not bigger than that.

 

[JamDav1982]

Barca need players that can create chances. That is what Pedri is doing and why Xavi loves him and he is the one midfielder doing his job more than any other since came back.

Making out Pedri is hindering the type of football Xavi wants to play is clueless.

This is just the latest criticism when desperate to find one after every game.

 

[vegitot]

Do you have reading difficulties or something? I'm telling you for the fourth time now that I'm criticizing Pedri's current performance, not his talent or his potential or his past performances.

I have no allegiance sworn for or against him. I'm watching a game of football and I see that our game is slow and static and I look at one of our midfielders and I see that he completes less passes than our goalkeeper. I think that has something to do with our game not flowing. Other people disagree. It's not bigger than that.

Pedri completed 53 passes vs Bilbao in Copa and you criticized him as not effective enough or tried to be genius.... Now he makes 6 key passes (one big chance) but you criticize he doens't have 50 passes.

Also you are wrong 100% about passing game when you use the number of passes. For example, Pedri has more passes per 90 in last Liga season than Zidane in Laliga. Do you think Zidane was not good in passing game?

Or even prime Iniesta, only had less than 50 passes per 90 in Euro 2008, not good in passing game? And 2 years later, in World Cup 2010 when Spain's tiki taka at its peak, he also only had 49 passes per 90?

Both are less than Pedri in Euro 2020.

Do you think Iniesta was not good for Spain in passing game?

 

[BusiTheKing]

Pedri completed 53 passes vs Bilbao in Copa and you criticized him as not effective enough or tried to be genius.... Now he makes 6 key passes (one big chance) but you criticize he doens't have 50 passes.

Also you are wrong 100% about passing game when you use the number of passes. For example, Pedri has more passes per 90 in last Liga season than Zidane in Laliga. Do you think Zidane was not good in passing game?

Or even prime Iniesta, only had less than 50 passes per 90 in Euro 2008, not good in passing game? And 2 years later, in World Cup 2010 when Spain's tiki taka at its peak, he also only had 49 passes per 90?

Both are less than Pedri in Euro 2020.

Do you think Iniesta was not good for Spain in passing game?

My line of argument doesn't go from "Pedri plays few passes" to "his passing game is bad."

It goes from "Our possession game is slow, static, predictable" to "To me, Pedri looks like the one doing the least to change that" to "the numbers also show that this season, he makes fewer passes than pretty much every good CM or AM in Europe."

About Zidane. I didn't watch Real Madrid that season. If 1) they wanted to play fluid, posession based football, and 2) they failed at that, and 3) Zidane completed much fewer passes than the other midfielders, then yes, I would probably also think that was relevant.

About Iniesta in the 2008 Euros, from what I remember of that Spain side, they already played pretty fast-paced fluid football. They had no problem with their circulation. So there's no issue there.

If they had trouble finding each other, then I would begin to look at who was contributing the least to the passing game.

If Barca go out the next big game and actually play fast-paced, fluid possession based football, with Pedri completing 30 passes, then I would probably ignore it and focus on other aspects of our game. But when it's an issue that our game is not flowing, then I look for who's not contributing. I think this is pretty logical.

I also didn't have any issue with Pedri's presence in the circulation for Spain at the Euros. I don't know why you keep trying to assert that I do. But I have a problem with his presence in our current circulation.

 

[vegitot]

My line of argument doesn't go from "Pedri plays few passes" to "his passing game is bad."

It goes from "Our possession game is slow, static, predictable" to "To me, Pedri looks like the one doing the least to change that" to "the numbers also show that this season, he makes fewer passes than pretty much every good CM or AM in Europe."

About Zidane. I didn't watch Real Madrid that season. If 1) they wanted to play fluid, posession based football, and 2) they failed at that, and 3) Zidane completed much fewer passes than the other midfielders, then yes, I would probably also think that was relevant.

About Iniesta in the 2008 Euros, from what I remember of that Spain side, they already played pretty fast-paced fluid football. They had no problem with their circulation. So there's no issue there.

If they had trouble finding each other, then I would begin to look at who was contributing the least to the passing game.

If Barca go out the next big game and actually play fast-paced, fluid possession based football, with Pedri completing 30 passes, then I would probably ignore it and focus on other aspects of our game. But when it's an issue that our game is not flowing, then I look for who's not contributing. I think this is pretty logical.

I also didn't have any issue with Pedri's presence in the circulation for Spain at the Euros. I don't know why you keep trying to assert that I do. But I have a problem with his presence in our current circulation.

So when Iniesta made less than 50 passes, there is no issue because Spain still played fast pace football but when Pedri makes less than 50 passes and Barca can not play fast pace football, it is all his faults???

Look like you blame Pedri for Barca slow pace, ignore the rest of midfield and the team.

Pedri makes more key passes and passes in final third than anyone else. How can't he contribute to Barca's passing game?

For Iniesta's comparision, Pedri also makes more key passes/passes in final third than Ini.

 

[BusiTheKing]

So when Iniesta made less than 50 passes, there is no issue because Spain still played fast pace football but when Pedri makes less than 50 passes and Barca can not play fast pace football, it is all his faults???

Look like you blame Pedri for Barca slow pace, ignore the rest of midfield and the team.

1) didn't say that
2) didn't say that
3) didn't say that
4) where can I see that Pedri makes more passes than Iniesta in the final third? if this is not some Euros 2020 stat then I agree that's interesting.

 

[vegitot]

1) didn't say that
2) didn't say that
3) didn't say that
4) where can I see that Pedri makes more passes than Iniesta in the final third? if this is not some Euros 2020 stat then I agree that's interesting.

Need to read your own post before posting again.

I would love to see if Iniesta's pre Pep can have nearly half of his passes are passes in final third
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