8 - Pedri

[BusiTheKing]

Need to read your own post before posting again.

I would love to see if Iniesta's pre Pep can have nearly half of his passes are passes in final third
[tw]1449045287977332738[/tw]

See if I can explain a little better. So you wrote this:

Pedri also makes more key passes/passes in final third than Ini.

And I asked for a reference for that statistic. Can you please tell me where it's from?

 

[vegitot]

See if I can explain a little better. So you wrote this:



And I asked for a reference for that statistic. Can you please tell me where it's from?

At least in Euro 2020, he makes more key passes and passes into final third than Iniesta in all of his major tournaments.

There is no data about Iniesta pre Pep era but i can guess some. For example, Pedri last season in Liga completed more than 60 passes per 90. He did the same thing in Euro 2020. Now you look at Iniesta's stats in Euro 2008 and World Cup 2010 when he was at his peak, he completed less than 60. Especially Euro 2008, less than even 50. So that may happened with Iniesta in Liga pre Pep era.

Since you like passing number stats, do you think Iniesta played better passing game in World Cup 2018 than he did in World Cup 2010 and Euro 2008? Iniesta completed more passes per 90 in 2018 than both his peak tournaments btw.

 

[BusiTheKing]

At least in Euro 2020, he makes more key passes and passes into final third than Iniesta in all of his major tournaments.

There is no data about Iniesta pre Pep era but i can guess some. For example, Pedri last season in Liga completed more than 60 passes per 90. He did the same thing in Euro 2020. Now you look at Iniesta's stats in Euro 2008 and World Cup 2010 when he was at his peak, he completed less than 60. Especially Euro 2008, less than even 50. So that may happened with Iniesta in Liga pre Pep era.

Since you like passing number stats, do you think Iniesta played better passing game in World Cup 2018 than he did in World Cup 2010 and Euro 2008? Iniesta completed more passes per 90 in 2018 than both his peak tournaments btw.

Mate it's a bit difficult to have any meaningful argument with you when you refuse to give any proof of the stats you pull out.

So one more time, you said word for word that Pedri completes more passes than Iniesta in the final third. Nothing about specific Euro finals or pre-Pep eras or whatever.

Do you have any proof of that, or did you just "guess" and then pass it on as fact?

 

[BusiTheKing]

Since you like passing number stats, do you think Iniesta played better passing game in World Cup 2018 than he did in World Cup 2010 and Euro 2008? Iniesta completed more passes per 90 in 2018 than both his peak tournaments btw.

No, not really. I don't know why you keep insisting that it is my opinion that more passes necessarily equals a better passing game. I don't believe that and I find it very hard to believe that I should have said that.

Maybe show me where I did or just move on because I feel like the fruit of this discussion dried out a long time ago.

 

[vegitot]

No, not really. I don't know why you keep insisting that it is my opinion that more passes necessarily equals a better passing game. I don't believe that and I find it very hard to believe that I should have said that.

Maybe show me where I did or just move on because I feel like the fruit of this discussion dried out a long time ago.

Read your own post before.

 

[vegitot]

Mate it's a bit difficult to have any meaningful argument with you when you refuse to give any proof of the stats you pull out.

So one more time, you said word for word that Pedri completes more passes than Iniesta in the final third. Nothing about specific Euro finals or pre-Pep eras or whatever.

Do you have any proof of that, or did you just "guess" and then pass it on as fact?

Here is Iniesta World Cup 2010 stats:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai10DGghuMTrdDR4N0NWMm1yTWNEWHQ3bTZvYVhwV2c#gid=0

And there:

[tw]1447263708137377795[/tw]

His 2008 Euro stats in this video (direct comparision with Pedri 2020)

[tw]1413169633008488448[/tw]

Now we know Iniesta made 155 passes in final third with 10 key passes. We know Pedri completed 177 passes in final third with 11 key passes. Tell me, which one is better in passing game.

[tw]1422242263401439236[/tw]

We also know Iniesta completed 199 passes in Euro 2008. Now tell me, do you think 177/199 of his passes are final third passes?

Obviously not.

I bring Iniesta here as an example of how silly your number of passes point is. Thinking a player makes less than 50 passes is the main problem of team's passing game is just wrong.

Won't make your best midfielder in the world with unparalleled passing ability Mavericky have any more minutes under Xavi of all people

 

[BusiTheKing]

Here is Iniesta World Cup 2010 stats:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai10DGghuMTrdDR4N0NWMm1yTWNEWHQ3bTZvYVhwV2c#gid=0

And there:

[tw]1447263708137377795[/tw]

His 2008 Euro stats in this video (direct comparision with Pedri 2020)

[tw]1413169633008488448[/tw]

Now we know Iniesta made 155 passes in final third with 10 key passes. We know Pedri completed 177 passes in final third with 11 key passes. Tell me, which one is better in passing game.

[tw]1422242263401439236[/tw]

We also know Iniesta completed 199 passes in Euro 2008. Now tell me, do you think 177/199 of his passes are final third passes?

Obviously not.

I bring Iniesta here as an example of how silly your number of passes point is. Thinking a player makes less than 50 passes is the main problem of team's passing game is just wrong.

Won't make your best midfielder in the world with unparalleled passing ability Mavericky have any more minutes under Xavi of all people

mate we keep going round and round.

i've said a fucking hundred times that I have no issue with how Pedri played in the Euros.

then you say "Pedri makes more passes in the final third than Iniesta". i was interested because you said "makes", as in present tense. but this, it turns out, is still based on his euros perfomance.

and then you give me these comparisons that don't really pertain to my argument, which i've already explained to you. add to that, even if they were relevant, you don't even give a demoninator. are these for the whole tournament? what if they played a different number of minutes?

maybe just let it go?

 

[vegitot]

mate we keep going round and round.

i've said a fucking hundred times that I have no issue with how Pedri played in the Euros.

then you say "Pedri makes more passes in the final third than Iniesta". i was interested because you said "makes", as in present tense. but this, it turns out, is still based on his euros perfomance.

and then you give me these comparisons that don't really pertain to my argument, which i've already explained to you. add to that, even if they were relevant, you don't even give a demoninator. are these for the whole tournament? what if they played a different number of minutes?

maybe just let it go?

Read these tweets. It means the whole fucking tournament. The number of minutes they played also there. You simply don't even want to accept these facts.

I compare their peak tournaments which is pretty fair (2020 for Pedri and 2008 - 2010 for Iniesta). Base on your logic, it looks like Pedri in Euro 2020 is even better than Iniesta in Euro 2008 and World Cup 2010.

And you always come up with something new for Pedri. Such as asking for assists and key passes in Euro. Now ask for number of passes per 90 lol. What's next? Breaking Messi's assist record?

Luckily there is Iniesta in the past

 

[Andresito]

This discussion still ongoing? Damn

 

[delancey]

John Doe: He had x amount of passes. 🤨
John Foe: no, he had y amount of passes. 😡

Eat. Shit. Sleep. Shower. Repeat. 😁

 

[BusiTheKing]

Base on your logic, it looks like Pedri in Euro 2020 is even better than Iniesta in Euro 2008 and World Cup 2010.

.... and what logic is that?

 

[vegitot]

.... and what logic is that?

More passes per 90

 

[vegitot]

John Doe: He had x amount of passes. 🤨
John Foe: no, he had y amount of passes. 😡

Eat. Shit. Sleep. Shower. Repeat. 😁

Using the amount of passes to claim a player is the team problem is just rubbish.

 

[BusiTheKing]

More passes per 90

Seriously man? Again? Here are six times I've told you that this is not my logic. Six times mate. Officially my last post in this delightful conversation.

I'm not saying they're a direct measure of how good a player is lol. Why would you assume that?

But what was the point of the comment if not to argue that number of passes pr 90 isn't a good indicator of overall performance?

Which is a position I did not take.

I never said it's a good 'stat on it's own'. A player can be plenty involved in a game and still have many other issues with his game.

I have specifically said a number of times that I don't think it's anything like a measure of overall performance.

I did not use his number of passes as a basis for criticizing his overall performance, no.

I don't know why you keep insisting that it is my opinion that more passes necessarily equals a better passing game. I don't believe that and I find it very hard to believe that I should have said that.

Maybe show me where I did or just move on because I feel like the fruit of this discussion dried out a long time ago.

Edit: make that seven:

My line of argument doesn't go from "Pedri plays few passes" to "his passing game is bad."

It goes from "Our possession game is slow, static, predictable" to "To me, Pedri looks like the one doing the least to change that" to "the numbers also show that this season, he makes fewer passes than pretty much every good CM or AM in Europe."

 

[vegitot]

Seriously man? Again? Here are six times I've told you that this is not my logic. Six times mate. Officially my last post in this delightful conversation.














Edit: make that seven:

Lame. Your post:

"Trying to put some numbers to the issue I have with him of not being inovlved enough in general circulation.

Pedri averages 43,9 passes per 90 as a CM.

These are passes per 90 for comparable players in England and Spain (only appearances registered as CM by whoscored):

Thiago 86,7
Milner 75,3
Henderson 74,9
Ross Barkley 69,2
Saul Niguez 66,2
H?jbjerg 64,9
De Bryune 60,3
Curtis Jones 60,1
Lallana 57,1
Moutinho 56
Sancho 55,6
?degaard 49,5
Bruno Fernandes 48,1
Koke 73,4
Parejo 68,7
Kroos 90,5
Modric 73,4
Rakitic 65,8
Frenkie 62
Valverde 59,6
David Silva 57,2
Denis Suarez 56,9
Trigueros 55,8
Oliver Torres 55,6
Rodrigo de Paul 55,6"

Stop it. You are embrassing yourself. Or if you agree that Iniesta didn't involve enough for Spain 2008-2010 then i don't have anything to say.