JustZanetti4
Active member
Barsa dont have for bread though,no? with the reconstruction of Camp Nou et al.
8 - Pedri
- Thread starter FC433
- Start date
Blanco
Active member
Which stats exactly back Pedri in comparison with Musiala?
Musiala has 35 goals and 26 assists in 7346 minutes (in 141 games) played for Bayern - 210 minutes for a goal and 283 minutes for an assist.
Pedri has 17 goals and 9 assists in 8627 minutes (in 119 games) for Barca - 507 minutes for a goal and 959 minutes per assist.
Its definitely not close 😀
serghei
Senior Member
With Pedri it's mostly eye test. People like him because of some superb details of technique here and there, even if those moments don't add to much in the grand scheme of things.
Now, in some ideal circumstances... say a team already has several elite players around Pedri, he could do his part because he's technique is good enough. But then Ferret also looked the part at City most of the time.
City, usually, are too well-oiled for someone to jam the system.
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
Cant compare both with states, Pedri plays deeper and isnt the guy for numbers but opens the game play with a nice pass. Musiala is more an attacking midfield player.
Blanco
Active member
Thr guy i quoted was comparing stats and even said that the stats are backing Pedri.. so i showed him the stats.
When people are asking for Pedri’s defensive contribution and passing range - he is attacking midfielder. When people ask where are the goals and assists - “he is playing deeper”.
When people are asking for Pedri’s defensive contribution and passing range - he is attacking midfielder. When people ask where are the goals and assists - “he is playing deeper”.
In term of passing/control, Pedri is easily better than either Musiala or Wirtz. He is a creative player, no doubt. But he doesn't have same mentality of Wirtz or Musiala when he is asked to take responsibility.
His biggest problem now is his mentality. It still can change with time, training..
His biggest problem now is his mentality. It still can change with time, training..
We're definitely a tier one side. Just at the lower end of it right now because of recent form and Xavi awful play most the time.
But you can't cite Bayern because they won 8-2 a number of years ago, yet ignore that half the teams have changed and even their then striker is now at ourselves.
With that said, the recent weeks losses will lower the perception of the argument.
But then in the recent week Bayern also got pummeled 5-1 against a midtable side, and Man City have gone 1-3-1 in their last 5 PL games.
So fuck knows how these rankings are devised
But you can't cite Bayern because they won 8-2 a number of years ago, yet ignore that half the teams have changed and even their then striker is now at ourselves.
With that said, the recent weeks losses will lower the perception of the argument.
But then in the recent week Bayern also got pummeled 5-1 against a midtable side, and Man City have gone 1-3-1 in their last 5 PL games.
So fuck knows how these rankings are devised
JohnN
Senior Member
what I Don't like about him is the extremely casual attitude.
he finds himself in the right side of the box and has no urgency to do something. it's the opposite of messi who executed actions in milliseconds to avoid a tacle, pedri moves like a sloth.
will never be good at AM
he finds himself in the right side of the box and has no urgency to do something. it's the opposite of messi who executed actions in milliseconds to avoid a tacle, pedri moves like a sloth.
will never be good at AM
BBZ8800
Senior Member
I have warned about that several years ago.
Pedri is similar to Arthur and have some similar issues.
My opinion is that as kids, they grew up as Barca's fans and they grew up watching Pep's football and Spanish NT from 2008-2012.
Before Pep's era, midfielders were different.
Majority of teams had two types of midfielder:
1. either a 10 like Totti, Rui Costa, Zidane
2. or a more defensive minded midfielder
With emergence of Pep, Barca, Xavi and Iniesta, suddenly a no10 disappeared and this new gen of MCs combined the traits of an old no10 (creative skills) and of a defensive midfielder (defending, pressing, dropping deep to get the ball).
And then, even though Xavi and Iniesta did score a lot of goals, but their main duty of the field was to keep the ball as long as possible, to circulate it around, to keep possession, to play rondos eternally.
Someone will now say: not true.
Xavi and Iniesta had tons of assists etc.
True.
But my general point is that football has changed around 2008.
Before that, it was way more direct and with less possession in midfield.
Juventus and Milan from the 90s were way more direct than Pep's Barca or Spanish NT.
Galacticos were more direct.
Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea (remember Mou's Chelsea around 2004-2006 when Lampard was skipping the midfield and just hoofing balls upfield to Drogba, Cole, Duff, Robben).
Or even Rijkaard's Barca from 2006 was way more direct and less possession based than Pep's Barca or Spanish NT under Del Bosque.
And then when Pep's Barca came, it was a revolution in terms of holding the ball, keeping the possession and keeping the ball for 1-2 minutes in some matches with 50-100 passes in a row.
So, in the 90s or early 2000s, when the AMC would see the an open space, he would make a risky forward pass or shoot whenever possible (Totti, Lampard etc).
But when Pep, Xavi and Iniesta came, in those days Pep killed risky behavior and introdeuced a new idea: play safe, make a risky pass only if there is a high chance for a success. Or: don't shoot from long range, pass to a teammate in a better position. Or: don't cross the ball at corners, it's a low reward type of chance, so rather play short corners and wait for a perfect chance.
In that sense, someone who was a 5 or 10 year old kid back then and who was a fan of Barca, grew up with the idea that the most important role for a midfielder is to dominate as much as Xavi and Iniesta in terms of rondos, first time passes, keeping possession, playing it safe, don't risk and wait for a better opportunity, don't shoot from distance because one of your teammates is ALWAYS in a better position, so you should rather pass to him.
** I agree, Pep's football has evolved since then and it is more direct and more riskier lately.
But around 2010, it was some sort of mathematical football without too much risks and always looking for a solution which has the highest chance for keeping the possession and not losing the ball.
I have wrote this post lots of times in Arthur's thread when he came and when people believed that he will dominate the world because he had some of Xavi's skills.
But Arthur, the same as Pedri, had only one portion of Xavi's skills like: press resistance, recycling possession, nice passes.
And ok, Pedri has a better eye for forward passes than Arthur, but they both lack in some other areas like physique, defending, shooting on goal, dominating the game in the final 3rd.
And the same as with Arthur, I don't think that Pedri can improve in that part.
The same as how every Barca fan on this forum who grew up during Pep's Barca will forever think that it was the best football ever played and no other type of football can tickle his mind as Xavi-Iniesta era.
The same is with Arthur, Pedri, Puig and co.
Their footballing brain and instincts developed while watching Xavi and Iniesta and they have learned some things in the wrong way.
Their brains are wired to: keep the ball as much as possible, not to risk, not too shoot, to recycle possession with the idea that the goal will eventually come from somewhere.
Now, the original poster mentioned De Bruyne and Bellingham.
And people wonder why are they different.
Well, they didn't grow up on the "Planet Barca".
De Bruyne is a Belgian and they historically more connected with EPL.
So, as a kid, he has probably grew up watching Scholes, Gerard and Lampard.
And his brain is wired from the early years to the same as these 3: to run, to pass, to assist and shoot as much as possible.
The same is with Bellingham.
He has also grew up watching EPL midfielders who run, pass and shoot a lot and that is visible in his game.
Or:
Why do most of Brazilian players play football filled with tricks and Joga Bonita?
= because that's how they play as kids and their brains are wired that way, that football is = tricks and dribbles
Or why do Italians play a defensive minded football for the last 50 years?
= the same, because of their culture and kids are taught that way since the early age
Regarding Arthur's and Pedri's "Barca world" problem, imo, it will take a decade or two until kids in Catalonia will start to shoot more often and move away from Xavi's type of a player.
And one more time: whenever you'll hope that Arthur or Pedri will change and improve, just ask yourself: have you ever moved away from dreaming about Pep's Barca and that type of football? No.
And there's your answer regarding Pedri...
serghei
Senior Member
Pedri is just not as good as the players he is being compared to. That's all. It's relatively simple.The thing is Barca got desperate because of lack of finances, and rushed all of these kids. Instead of being squad players like it was normal, they were rushed, appeared on front page since 16, 17 or 18 years of age, as the new faces of Barcelona, new Messi, new Iniesta, got jersey no 10, jersey no 8, no 6.
It was all too fast, too sudden, too desperate. They were not nearly ready for this, in the body, nor in the mind. They are very good talents, but the club simply jumped the gun with them, and as a result, they are not developing in a healthy way.
As for that BBZ analysis, of course Pep's Barca is gonna be misunderstood and poorly simulated. That's the nature of any successful thing. It's gonna be copied to death, while the copies are deemed to never reach the height of the original.
Pep has matured a lot as a manager too. He understood that the players he had at Barcelona, the sheer technical quality of them, is almost impossible to replicate at some other team. And he tweaked his style and implemented other things, resulting in a more direct style. He started this tweaking quite early, even since his Bayern stint. Despite what people may think of him, Pep is a realist. He didn't just took the style that worked at Barcelona and blindly applied it at Bayern and City.
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Iniesta Ultra
Senior Member
This is total bullshit. Xavi, Iniesta, Busi, Messi, Puig made/make risky passes all the fucking time. But they weren't risky holistically since they didn't fear making them and succeeding doing so.
Your insistence Xavi's forcing dna on current team is the most retarded thing besides serghei's drivel on this forum. Xavi killed dna completely with his "do as I say not as I did, you'll never be good enough to do what I did so be a safe gimp robot instead tactics."
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Pedri was 8 when Pep had his last successful season here in 2011. You think a kid this young will build his game around Xavi, and not Messi for example?
I mean surely his understanding and development as a young football fan was far better during 2015 when we won treble too with more direct midfield.
Also, Pedri was an AM/RW/LW when he was at Las Palmas. He was actually more direct before he joined us.
He actually turned into more controlling role when he joined us, and the more he stays the further he develops into that. This is a system problem here rather than a problem of 6 years old kid watching Barca 15 years ago.
Under Xavi, midfielders role has never been to assist, but to circulate and support attack, playmaking comes from midfield.
People laughed last year when folks mentioned him leading Europe in pre-assists, because they thought that it isn't a serious state. But it shows exactly the role that Pedri,and other midfielders, aare asked to do, his job is to give the ball to the winger or fullback, and let them cook. Not to create a chance by himself.
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