9 - Robert Lewandowski

[Andresito]

Not sure if there's a correlation here. But two players who took a lot of hits during their careers and declined rapidly are Hazard and Neyney.

 

[KingLeo10]

Not sure if there's a correlation here. But two players who took a lot of hits during their careers and declined rapidly are Hazard and Neyney.

I'm struggling to think of any dribbling oriented attacking players (basically the ones who take the most tackles) who made it to 1,000 professional games like Messi.

Romario comes to mind but he played a lot of his career in lesser leagues.

 

[Yannik]

That's a good point, but you can also push that in a different direction and ask how many kilometres they covered within those games. Messi and Ronaldo had a certain superstar status within their teams that shifted certain duties away from them, in order to prolong their careers and not strain their fitness too much. It was common practice to build teams around them, and have certain personal "clean up" after them, so that Messi & Ronaldo did not waste stamina on duties they do not excell at, and could instead focus purely on the game with the ball at their feet. It's questionable wether they could have gone the same mileage if they were asked to cover 10km each game for 15-20 years.

Regarding number of games, I feel that Lewandowski never rested and played very much every game he could, and was only really capped by opportunity here. Lesser BuLi games, lesser cup games, overall fewer rounds in int. tournaments etc. Eventually he would've also made 50-100 more games in the same time, if he happened to have the chance to. But of course that's hypothetics.

 

[KingLeo10]

That's a good point, but you can also push that in a different direction and ask how many kilometres they covered within those games. Messi and Ronaldo had a certain superstar status within their teams that shifted certain duties away from them, in order to prolong their careers and not strain their fitness too much. It was common practice to build teams around them, and have certain personal "clean up" after them, so that Messi & Ronaldo did not waste stamina on duties they do not excell at, and could instead focus purely on the game with the ball at their feet. It's questionable wether they could have gone the same mileage if they were asked to cover 10km each game for 15-20 years.

Regarding number of games, I feel that Lewandowski never rested and played very much every game he could, and was only really capped by opportunity here. Lesser BuLi games, lesser cup games, overall fewer rounds in int. tournaments etc. Eventually he would've also made 50-100 more games in the same time, if he happened to have the chance to but of course that's hypothetics.

That's also a fair point. I would like to say in Messi's case those 1.5 km difference per game may be counter balanced by him taking on so many tackles and lower body wear and tear. But that's hypothetical category as you say.

CR7 is an interesting case as despite his huge number of games he stopped being "physical" in his play since 2012. He rarely ever duels with CBs or dribbles against tackles.

We agree I think that Lewa is among the elite tier of athletes historically. I just wasn't ready to outright give him top spot just yet. Maybe he will prove me wrong in the next 3-4 years, which would be good for Barca fans.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

All of you Lewa stans need to relax with the hyperbole. An important metric is the number of professional games played, since it is ultimately the wear and tear of playing combined with aging that makes a player decline and ultimately, obsolete.

Messi is about 34.5 years right now and has played 977 games of professional football for club + country.

Lewandowski is 33.5 years right now and has played 874 games of professional football for club + country.

That's a gap of a 100 games as it stands, which amounts to 1.75-2 years. Lewa will be 35.5ish years by the same time he's played the same number of games as 34.5 year old Messi. We'll see what Lewa's level is like 2 years from now, but I have a strong suspicion it will be that of a 25-30 goal a season striker. Which is good for a 35-36 year old but nothing to write ballads about.

Now, CR7:

He's played 1,084 games for club + country at age 37.25. That's a gap of 210 games to Lewa or 3.5-4 years of professional football. Lewa will be 38 by the time he's played the same amount of games as a 37 year old CR7.

People here are underestimating the sheer amount of mileage CR7 (obvious) and Messi (not so obvious) have gone through. Messi, in particular has managed nearly a 1,000 professional games despite taking on 2-3-4 challenges on the regular during dribbles in his prime. Lewa battles with CBs but it's upper body battle for the most part and not the legs. I'm not not factoring that Messi and CR7 played in generally tougher leagues, strength wise compared to Lewa and for tougher NTs, especially in Messi's case with those South American butchers and 6,000 feet elevation stadiums.

Conclusion: Lewa is an elite athlete but I'm not even convinced he's better than Messi or CR7 as strictly athletes over the course of his career, especially CR7. For me, the greatest football athlete, even better than CR7 who I have as no.2 is Maldini.

The Pep era seasons (especially 11/12) + 14/15 were too much, they played (nearly) every match 90min. The greed for the Golden boot was too big

 

[Donauwelle]

Just to draw a comparison, people said Ronaldo's goals would dry up when Ozil or Di Maria left, but never happened.

Natural goalscorers finds a way, in all likelihood.

They would have dried up if Benzema would have left. The provider was not that important especially with the tactics Real had with less ball possession. But - Benzema was to CR7 partly what M?ller is to Lewy - just that M?ller is partly the one that takes over the central defenders so Lewy can roam and in other situations gives him a lot assists, too.

He is a natural goalscorer - yes. And yes, he will find ways. But not as often and in that consistency. But that is pretty normal.


Lewy is a unique centre forward - but he is not superman in his fight against two central defenders. If there is no movement etc. he will not physically outforce them if he does not have help. He needs that movement either by himself in situations or another one that helps him and if there is no surprise actions. And they often enough have told the press that they blindly know where the other one is. And it takes a while to get that understanding.

Too good compilations:

 

[Messigician]

DonAK Smurf?

 

[Temptation]

https://www.futhead.com/22/players/48/robert-lewandowski/

Lewandowski's current FIFA card to give you a fair idea about his attributes.

I know people look down on video games in real Football discussions but it still gives us a rough idea at times if you haven't watched much of a player recently.

 

[Morten]

Imagine thinking FIFA cards is a fair reflection of anything

 

[Temptation]

Jose Mourinho uses FM to get player info. Amazon doc of Spurs.....

It's just the pretentious wannabe experts who try to act all knowledgeable disregarding things like this.

Like I said, FIFA/FM isn't what anyone should judge on the basis of, but it can certainly give you a rough idea in certain cases.

Many managers use FM data. Sometimes, FM data is better than actual club data in second division clubs.

 

[ajnotkeith]

Jose Mourinho uses FM to get player info. Amazon doc of Spurs.....

It's just the pretentious wannabe experts who try to act all knowledgeable disregarding things like this.

Like I said, FIFA/FM isn't what anyone should judge on the basis of, but it can certainly give you a rough idea in certain cases.

Many managers use FM data. Sometimes, FM data is better than actual club data in second division clubs.

FM is very different to FIFA tho. FIFA are far more inaccurate in how they rate players and actually sometimes adjust their stats to fit in with the meta, it isn't a realistic video game.

FM is much more realistic in stats and gameplay.

 

[Temptation]

FM is very different to FIFA tho. FIFA are far more inaccurate in how they rate players and actually sometimes adjust their stats to fit in with the meta, it isn't a realistic video game.

FM is much more realistic in stats and gameplay.

I agree.

FIFA is close to reliable only for the big name players. FM much more detailed for sure.

I was surprised seeing how many coaches use FM info. I mean Jose friggin Mourinho, who has a bucketload of trophies uses it.

 

[Morten]

Jose Mourinho uses FM to get player info. Amazon doc of Spurs.....

It's just the pretentious wannabe experts who try to act all knowledgeable disregarding things like this.

Like I said, FIFA/FM isn't what anyone should judge on the basis of, but it can certainly give you a rough idea in certain cases.

Many managers use FM data. Sometimes, FM data is better than actual club data in second division clubs.

Yeah, but FIFA is trash, FM is not.

Don't compare the two, please.

 

[KingLeo10]

I mean Jose friggin Mourinho, who has a bucketload of trophies uses it.

That's why he stopped winning trophies too

 

[ajnotkeith]

I agree.

FIFA is close to reliable only for the big name players. FM much more detailed for sure.

I was surprised seeing how many coaches use FM info. I mean Jose friggin Mourinho, who has a bucketload of trophies uses it.

FM ratings are pretty much made by scouts/in a scout-like system.

Fans of clubs/leagues/nations who watch the teams frequently (they prove this through season tickets I believe) volunteer to do stats for certain teams, and it is all moderated by a 'head scout' for that league/country that gets paid a wage by SI.

So the stats on FM are usually more or less accurate, suggested by fans/avid watchers and then moderated by paid employees.

You can't send scouts to watch every single player so FM stats can be a good starting point to find players with certain characteristics. A massive database.