Adama Traore

[raki]

We probably never in our whole history had 3 Fcs from our youth in the starting line up.
So, don't hold your breath too much about this idea.

Halilovic won't turn out (Barca's level) good.
Deulofeu is already in huge troubles and it is far more likely that he won't be a Barca level player.
Lee is having a Ban and his whole future is extremely hard to predict.

Out of these 6 players, one will maybe turn into a starting 11 material, and the other one will be a squad player.
We are Barca, we will always need to buy (best of the best) forwards like Neymar, Suarez and similar.

Chances are like 1% that we can produce 3 world-class FCs for our level.
Especially it is unlikely that 3 Fcs will come from more or less the same generation of players.

But let's wait for 2-3 years and you'll realize that.

You are way too pessimistic.

 

[khaled_a_d]

What about Busquets?a player who played his 1st official barca game when he was 20?Pedro who only played 16 games until he was 22? by the way Munir and Deulofeu both played with NT already
If we go back more Pep didn't play that much b4 he was 20
And you are ignoring the fact that this is a totally different Barca club right now,we are way stronger with more pressure to win than ever with an actually very strong squad ,Barca wasn't like that when the players you named was mentioned ,Messi had only to beat Giuly when he was promoted .Iniesta during 2004-05 had little competition to get himself more playing with 1st team with very thin squad that suffered from injuries,he was basically our only back up in both midfield & frontline ,Puyol&Xavi was playing in their early career in one of the club worst time since Cruijff took over as our coach in 1988 .the club has taken way more reserved approach with our youth player since Bojan&GDS failure .tbh if Xavi,Iniesta was born 10-12 years later I doubt they would have established themselves that early
Do fans tend to overhype our youth player and it seems there is a new Messi in every youth team in the club?sure .
But we have a very talented group for sure ,many of them can make it to 1st team?well they? it remains to be seen .we had a sort of similar situation with "1991 generation" and they have disappointed .but it seems this one is actually different
I myself are coutious to see how they will end up.it is a bit test for the good of La Masia in recent years as it seems that for some while producing many good players we aren't producing enough players good enough for Barca

 

[Ini8]

Not all players develop at the same rate. At least give him some time before you judge him.

 

[DonAndres]

The thing with Adama is that, no matter his talent, he is ridiculously one dimensional. A truly successful player is almost always well rounded even at a young age (Samper, Munir, and Grimaldo show this most in our youth system).

Adama just knows how to charge forward on counters and dribble Segunda-level defenders and then whip in near aimless crosses. If there's enough space, he'll go for a layoff instead. Unless he's having a 'wonder game' like against Alcorcon he spends quite a bit of time isolated due to his lack of involvement in buildup and there's little chance he'd have a respectable goal tally at the top flight. He makes Deulofeu look like a complete player.

Footballing intelligence is crucial for young players and Adama doesn't show too much (sadly, Halilovic doesn't as well) instead banking on his few tendencies and habits that bring him success at youth levels. Frankly, it'd be relatively easy to shut him out in games where there is actual tactical organization. He's unengaged enough for it to be easy to keep him from getting the ball in the first place and when he does, defenders are smart enough to push him to the outside instead of letting him cut in (therefore prompting him to make more blind-Alves crosses). He might have some awesome charge-through-the-defense moments like a buff Messi but those will be few in quantity and not make up for his deficiencies. He does have a good defensive workrate when he bothers to defend though.

Does he have a chance of making it? Of course, but it's a rough path of improvement that he has to show the capacity for in the first place.

 

[ScoobySquats]

The thing with Adama is that, no matter his talent, he is ridiculously one dimensional. A truly successful player is almost always well rounded even at a young age (Samper, Munir, and Grimaldo show this most in our youth system).

Adama just knows how to charge forward on counters and dribble Segunda-level defenders and then whip in near aimless crosses. If there's enough space, he'll go for a layoff instead. Unless he's having a 'wonder game' like against Alcorcon he spends quite a bit of time isolated due to his lack of involvement in buildup and there's little chance he'd have a respectable goal tally at the top flight. He makes Deulofeu look like a complete player.

Footballing intelligence is crucial for young players and Adama doesn't show too much (sadly, Halilovic doesn't as well) instead banking on his few tendencies and habits that bring him success at youth levels. Frankly, it'd be relatively easy to shut him out in games where there is actual tactical organization. He's unengaged enough for it to be easy to keep him from getting the ball in the first place and when he does, defenders are smart enough to push him to the outside instead of letting him cut in (therefore prompting him to make more blind-Alves crosses). He might have some awesome charge-through-the-defense moments like a buff Messi but those will be few in quantity and not make up for his deficiencies. He does have a good defensive workrate when he bothers to defend though.

Does he have a chance of making it? Of course, but it's a rough path of improvement that he has to show the capacity for in the first place.

He can still be more useful than Pedro in most instances. Sometimes we need a player who can just charge through players and force his way in

 

[BBZ8800]

And you are ignoring the fact that this is a totally different Barca club right now,we are way stronger with more pressure to win than ever with an actually very strong squad ,Barca wasn't like that when the players you named was mentioned ,Messi had only to beat Giuly when he was promoted .Iniesta during 2004-05 had little competition to get himself more playing with 1st team with very thin squad that suffered from injuries,he was basically our only back up in both midfield & frontline ,Puyol&Xavi was playing in their early career in one of the club worst time since Cruijff took over as our coach in 1988 .the club has taken way more reserved approach with our youth player since Bojan&GDS failure .tbh if Xavi,Iniesta was born 10-12 years later I doubt they would have established themselves that early
Do fans tend to overhype our youth player and it seems there is a new Messi in every youth team in the club?sure .
But we have a very talented group for sure ,many of them can make it to 1st team?well they? it remains to be seen .we had a sort of similar situation with "1991 generation" and they have disappointed .but it seems this one is actually different
I myself are coutious to see how they will end up.it is a bit test for the good of La Masia in recent years as it seems that for some while producing many good players we aren't producing enough players good enough for Barca

1. it is true that all players develop at a different pace
-- but, roughly, we could say that 80% of players develop at the similar pace
-- and if they aren't anything special at the age of 18, 20 or 22, that it is highly unlikely that they will suddenly explode later (even though there are examples like these, like Drogba or Zidane)
-- but again, if a player is having huge problems of breaking through into a senior football at the age of 20 or 22, we can say that very likely he won't be a new Xavi

2. true, Barca in early 00's was the worst Barca in a history, the pressure wasn't as huge as today, and younger players had bigger chances because we didn't have any other ideas anymore, because whatever we tried, turned out to be a flop
-- so, it was cheaper to try with some younger players than to spend another 100s millions of euros on new, wrong players

-- but look, while I agree with you that it was easier back then to GET a chance (and I am saying GET a chance, because those players haven't succeed ONLY because the competition was weaker, but because they were awesome. Even back then there were 100s of young gems who turned out to be flops, even though the competition was weaker than today)
-- 100s of other players also had the chance, but they didn't tuned into a new Xavi or Iniesta
-- Xavi had 38 appearances in 99-00 Season, aged 19-20, even though our team had midfielders like:
= Guardiola (!!), Luis Enrique (!!), Ronald De Boer, Figo, Cocu, Litmanen, Rivaldo, Simao Sabrosa, Zenden
-- so, it is not like as if he played in some extremely horrible team when he was 19

Look at all of our youths in the last 15 years:
1999: Mc Xavi, Mc Gabri Garcia, Amc Mario, Mc Nano, Mc Santamaria
2000: Dl Bermudo
2001: Dl Fernando Navarro, Mc Trashorras, Dc Oleguer, Gk Valdes, Dmc Motta
2002: Dc Dani Tortolero, Mc Iniesta, Mc David Sanchez, Fc Sergio Garcia, Dc Oscar Lopez
2003: Dmc Ramon Ros, Dc Rodri
2004: Gk Ruben, Fc Messi, Mc Joan Verdu, Dr Damia, Mc Javito
2005: Mc Pitu, Dc Carlos Pena, Mc Jordi Gomez, Mc Cristian, Mc Martos, Mc Ludovic Sylvestre, Mc Paco Montanes, Dc Jesus Olmo, Mc Orlandi, Dc Ramon Maso
2006: Mc Marc Crosas, Fc Giovani Dos Santos
2007: Fc Bojan, Gk Oier, Dmc Victor Sanchez, Dc Marc Valiente, Fc Pedro, Mc Victor Vasquez, Dc Fali, Mc Rueda
2008: Dmc Busquets, Mc Abraham, Mc Thiago Alcantara, Dmc Xavi Torres, Fc Jeffren Suarez
2009: Dc Bartra, Mc Jonathan Dos Santos, Gk Ruben, Fc Gai Assulin, Dc Fontas, Dc Muniesa, Fc Soriano
2010: Fc Nolito, Mc Sergi Roberto, Dc Sergi Gomez, Mc Romeu, DR Montoya, Fc Deulofeu
2011: Mc Riverola, Mc Rafinha, Fc Cuenca, Fc Tello, Fc Kiko
2012: Dl Carles Planas, Gk Masip
-- not to mention some foreign youth gems who were the best in the world in youth ranks, and totally flopped at Barca at the age 18-22, like:
-- Fc Saviola, Mc Fabio Rochemback, winger Simao Sabrosa, winger Ricardo Quaresma etc...

-- if I counted correctly, we have 68 players here:
1. players who turned out into starting 11 players:
= Xavi, Valdes, Iniesta, Messi, Pedro, Busquets + Thiago=7 players
2. players who turned into squad players:
= Gabri, Oleguer, Motta, Bartra, Sergi Roberto, Rafinha (??), Montoya (??)=7 players
-- we could add Pique and Fabregas into one of this columns also
3. players who didn't turn into Barca's level=54

-- anyway, 7 out of 68 players turned into "Xavi" or "Iniesta"
-- so, one of ten hottest prospects turns into a first 11 material
-- and that happens usually once in 2 years

-- also, 5 or 7 players turn into a squad players (1 out of 10 or even 1 out 14 in worse scenario)
-- that also happens once in 2 years

-- so, basically, in the last 15 years, the average is that we will get one first team player in one Season, and one squad player in the second Season
-- it is extremely unlikely that we will get 2-3 key players in one Season
-- and again, some users are dreaming that we will get 3-4-5-6 forwards (!!) from more-less the same generation of players
-- again, if two of them will make it as squad players, that will be awesome

++ Also, about "the story" how the current team or current players are the best young prospects ever. Ok, some generations are better than the other, but don't buy those stories too much.
Journalists and media hype each new generation as the greatest ever.

Currently Deulo, Adama and other guys are the best thing ever.
If they will flop, in a year or two, journalists will come with new stories how the new generation is even better than this one (who flopped, let's say).
They do that all the time.

It is extremely painfull to even mention how many of the players mentioned above from years 99-14, were hailed as the greatest new Dc, Dr, Dmc or Mc.
More than 90% of them turned into a segunda players.

Unless if we currently have by far the greatest young team ever. Or if we have 20x more prospects from all over the world than in the past, then we can expect more than 1 out 10 players to turn into something.

Again, the current generation could be slightly better than other, but maths says that if we will get 2 out 10 squad players from the current youths, we should be extremely happy.

Everything higher than that is too romantic and not objective, and ignoring the history and statistics.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Again,I said it is unlikely everyone will ban out,but as I said the situation with this generation looks different,though I don't like the way you count ,many of those weren't actually promoted ,they were just used in CDR games and given minutes to complete squads with 1st team,most of them wasn't hyped to be starts at all ,also not many look special that early ,Deco was one of the stars in the team and he wasn't in the scene globally b4 he was around 24 ,Drogba didn't get recognition b4 he was with Guingamp at the age of 24 ,many players are late bloomers

Yes the media is hyping prospects so much but the club is actually trying to keep there steps slow and keeps them to be down to earth
this The 1995-1996 generation reminds me a bit of two other generations

1-the 1991 generation
Tello/Cuenca//Thiago/Montoya/Bartra/Munisia ,other than Munisia(only one born in 1992 btw) all of them actually promoted to 1st team.since U-17 that team was highly rated .hell there was even some other names that I didn't mention like Gai Assulin/Teron/Alex who was the next Messi/Ayala/VV when they were around 16-17 years of age .
Now that generation isn't that bad,if you are a footballer you will be happy to be La Liga player or EPL player ,Tello-Cuenca-Munisia all are doing fairly well for their own sake and career,who knows may be when they are 27 they play again with a big team,Thiago left and is suffering injuries
Bartra &Montoya are struggling with 1st team,I know Bartra is the player that everyone love and want him to have success but I doubt he will be anything other than back up CB here,Montoya isn't doing better unfortunately
so from Barca perspective the best we got from this generation is 25M with a back up RB/CB

2-You have the 1987 generation ,you get Cesc,Messi,Pique,Pedro,Busquets ,5 starters ,one of them didn't have best success here but still very successful player ,one we sold with around 35M
The only 2 other players that was highly rated by fans was Jeffren(which was a confusing as he never impressed,think he had gr8 agent) and Marc Valiente
so that was just a generation with huge success
Again ,this generation is different than the other 2 and it will be interesting to see their progress and how they end up
It is easy to predict every prospect to fail ,yes most of them does,it is easier to be so optimistic for everyone
Messi was once a very selfish injury prone player who can't finish or create for his teammates ,Bojan looked once a clinical finisher with amazing speed and talent ,every prospect has his own point of strengths and many holes in his games ,it is about how they work hard to refine their overall game and about the situation they are in .to go the Messi way or the Bojan one

 

[BBZ8800]

Messi was once a very selfish injury prone player who can't finish or create for his teammates

Ok for other parts. We will see what the future will bring with the current generation, even though I would put my money that they will end exactly as the stats and history predicts.

I don't remember this about young Messi.
True, he wasn't the same as current Messi.
But he was insane in every match he played since age 17.
He didn't play hot and cold. He was just "Messi" in 9 out of 10 matches.

Reading something like these sounds more like an alibi for guys like Deulofeu, in a way: "hey, even Messi wasn't that good when he was young"

Anyway, a nice article:
http://www.totalbarca.com/2013/youth/how-to-know-if-a-youth-player-will-go-all-the-way/

About how you need both a huge talent, but also a huge mental strength.
We could also add, as Don Andres said, that you need to be well rounded and have a high footballing intelligence.

If you look back, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta and similar guys have more or less everything required.
Unlike Bartra, Montoya, Deulofeu, Halilovic and some other players that are hyped as new leaders.
Most of them lack (footballing) intelligence, aren't well rounded, their professionalism is very doubtful (Montoya, Deulofeu, Halilovic) and it is very questionable if they can handle the pressure and all "mental" obstacles.

(When the article was written, the author "believed" in Montoya, Tello and Cuenca, because they were mentally strong. So, 3 more "gems" on the list of players who didn't make it from this or that reason)

 

[anguy]

-- Xavi played at a World cup already aged 22
-- Iniesta also played at a world cup aged 22
-- Puyol played a first NT match aged 22

You are forgetting, that after Bojan's fiasco, club changed their youth policy and are now deliberately taking it slowly with them.

 

[BBZ8800]

You are forgetting, that after Bojan's fiasco, club changed their youth policy and are now deliberately taking it slowly with them.

True to some extent.
But Munir, aged 19 was thrown on the field this Season, and his career could have gone wrong way, isn't it?
He plays much more than 23-24 years old Montoya and Bartra.
(He played 10 matches already in 2 Months. So many things could have gone wrong "mentally" for him, isn't it?)

Maybe he just has the whole package and the club/coaches believe in him, unlike in Deulofeu, Bartra, Montoya etc...

 

[DinhoR10]

True to some extent.
But Munir, aged 19 was thrown on the field this Season, and his career could have gone wrong way, isn't it?
He plays much more than 23-24 years old Montoya and Bartra.
(He played 10 matches already in 2 Months. So many things could have gone wrong "mentally" for him, isn't it?)

Maybe he just has the whole package and the club/coaches believe in him, unlike in Deulofeu, Bartra, Montoya etc...

Munir has Lucho, Deu has Tito, very big difference. Time will tell who can make it here, but from what I've seen Adama/Deu are much better than prospects that came before them and failed.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Ok for other parts. We will see what the future will bring with the current generation, even though I would put my money that they will end exactly as the stats and history predicts.

I don't remember this about young Messi.
True, he wasn't the same as current Messi.
But he was insane in every match he played since age 17.
He didn't play hot and cold. He was just "Messi" in 9 out of 10 matches.

Reading something like these sounds more like an alibi for guys like Deulofeu, in a way: "hey, even Messi wasn't that good when he was young"

Anyway, a nice article:
http://www.totalbarca.com/2013/youth/how-to-know-if-a-youth-player-will-go-all-the-way/

About how you need both a huge talent, but also a huge mental strength.
We could also add, as Don Andres said, that you need to be well rounded and have a high footballing intelligence.

If you look back, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta and similar guys have more or less everything required.
Unlike Bartra, Montoya, Deulofeu, Halilovic and some other players that are hyped as new leaders.
Most of them lack (footballing) intelligence, aren't well rounded, their professionalism is very doubtful (Montoya, Deulofeu, Halilovic) and it is very questionable if they can handle the pressure and all "mental" obstacles.

(When the article was written, the author "believed" in Montoya, Tello and Cuenca, because they were mentally strong. So, 3 more "gems" on the list of players who didn't make it from this or that reason)

Messi was Messi ,but his flaws back then was evident ,he rarely got assists back then and he was playing with his head down many times ,his finishing wasn't strength either ,if Messi didn't develop and remained same player he was when he was 19 he was never gonna be the legend he is ,my point is you can always focus on player weaknesses rather than strengths .Messi was gonna be gr8 regardless due to so much talent but being the greatest in our history required him to develop his game drastically
btw ,Let's look outside Barca,Deulofeu IMO looks a lot like Robbin , a player who never looked to have all things required by your standard ,yet he is one of the best players around ,a player who put himself in the history of gr8 NT like Netherland
There will never be a rule of which kid who make it or who don't ,You are right being skeptical but you need to lower the bar a little bit,Messi is probably the greatest player ever been while Xavi&Iniesta are probably the best in the history of Spain NT,Puyol is arguably the best defender in both the club and NT history too ,we were extremely lucky we had this group together ,and we need to realize that they shouldn't be the ones who set the bar for our youngster
that will be asking too much

 

[raki]

True to some extent.
But Munir, aged 19 was thrown on the field this Season, and his career could have gone wrong way, isn't it?
He plays much more than 23-24 years old Montoya and Bartra.
(He played 10 matches already in 2 Months. So many things could have gone wrong "mentally" for him, isn't it?)

Maybe he just has the whole package and the club/coaches believe in him, unlike in Deulofeu, Bartra, Montoya etc...

What has Munir done that is so wonderfull? Sandro has been better. Montoya is good player. But they prefered to buy a crappy player like Douglas.

One aspect we have to improve is seeling youngsters not give them away for free. Sanabria is a good example. A solid sale.

Dongou and others can be sold to markets like Germany and England. They rate the barça players highly.

 

[BBZ8800]

** Khaled, Robben is one dimensional, but his tricks and dribblings are unstoppable.
Deulofeu is one dimensional, but his tricks aren't good enough for a senior level currently.
I hope you see a huge difference between those two.

Robben performed on a senior level at Groningen with 16, Psv with 18, and from age 20-23 at Chelsea.
Deulofeu usually does one semi-good trick per game and that's it.
He just isn't delivering anything on a senior level currently.

(I have read a line of text about Quaresma, about his days in Barca, it said something like:
= in one Minute, Quaresma was the best player in the world, after some awesome action, dribbling, move, a Goal
-- but then, in other 89 Minutes, you would forget that he is on the field. He would be totally invisible and out of all actions.
-- you can't play a match only for 1-2 Minutes per night)

** Raki, how much do you think that we can get for players like Dongou, if he would be sold to Germany or England?
I think that you are overrating their market value.

Munir is a better all-round player.
Sandro's stats are currently better in this Season, but Munir is ranked higher by coaches.
He is probably a better player on trainings, where the coach can see his skills every day.

 

[Messi10]

your kidding yourself you don't believe Adama will make it! this kids a beast!