Adama Traore

[Zangash]

I actually completely forgot about that. Makes sense if so, although he honestly isn't needed until Adriano leaves either way, although he'd probably do a better job of backing Alba up so long as he at least makes an attempt to play defense.

 

[Flavia]

Grimaldo is not injured. He's working with Gabri http://www.fcbarcelona.es/futbol/barca-b/detalle/noticia/el-filial-ya-trabaja-en-torremirona

 

[Bran the Greenseer]

Either way we have no reinforcements on the left coming so Lucho needs to keep an eye towards the future and hopefully when he's fit he'll get time with the first team.

Edit: Or maybe Lucho really just doesn't rate him

 

[BBZ8800]

Either way we have no reinforcements on the left coming so Lucho needs to keep an eye towards the future and hopefully when he's fit he'll get time with the first team.

Edit: Or maybe Lucho really just doesn't rate him

Lucho obviously doesn't rate anyone except Munir and Sandro.
And maybe Samper.

About Grimaldo, Lucho can play Alba, Adriano, Vidal and Mathieu there.
Or we will just buy a new random reserve LB in the next Season.

Barcaforum rates most of our youngsters much higher than our coaches and directors do.

 

[Bran the Greenseer]

Lucho obviously doesn't rate anyone except Munir and Sandro.
And maybe Samper.

About Grimaldo, Lucho can play Alba, Adriano, Vidal and Mathieu there.
Or we will just buy a new random reserve LB in the next Season.

Barcaforum rates most of our youngsters much higher than our coaches and directors do.

Isnt vidal a rb/right winger? And Mathieu is a good option but if you think ahead its better to give a promising youngster time here and there when resting (i.e not when theres injuries and an important game unless hes ready) instead of a 32 year old player. But that thinking was assuming that Lucho actually rated him if he doesn't then theres no choice but to play the experienced player cause atleast in the coaches eyes grimaldo doesn't have a future here.

 

[BBZ8800]

Isnt vidal a rb/right winger? And Mathieu is a good option but if you think ahead its better to give a promising youngster time here and there when resting (i.e not when theres injuries and an important game unless hes ready) instead of a 32 year old player. But that thinking was assuming that Lucho actually rated him if he doesn't then theres no choice but to play the experienced player cause atleast in the coaches eyes grimaldo doesn't have a future here.

I personally don't rate Grimaldo.
He is a good player, but NOT Barca's level potentially good player.
And still, that is not an insult for any player, because probably 1 out of 20 000 players in the world is probably "Barca's level" of quality.

About giving a chance to a potential youngster...
We have just signed a 29-years old for 40 Millions (Arda), instead of buying younger players, giving chances to younger gems like Roberto, Samper, Halilovic etc.

So, again, the philosophy of the club is very clear:
= Barca plays for TODAY, to earn trophies and earn money
= Barca is open to give chances to some youngsters, but only if those youngsters prove that they definitely deserve the chance and if Barca, as a club, really doesn't have any other option that to play/give a chance to youngster

So, Barca will never just give a chance to Adama, Munir, Sandro, Halil, Grimaldo, Deulofeu, Lee, anyone=and then "test" what will happen.

So, no.
Barca don't have the time to test young players, to give them chances and to potentially lose the trophies and some money.
For most of our fans, here on Barcaforum, we think that not giving a chance to Deulofeu, Adama or Grimaldo will be the end of the world.
= and that we are potentially losing a world class player if we don't give him/them some chances

But, it is clear from the last couple of years that the board and coaches look at it this way:
= we have 5-10 promising youngsters
-- if any of them will show huge improvement and huge potential, we will give him a chance
-- if he will play well with the first team, fine
-- if not, so what, it is not the end of the world, there will be 10 other new gems in the next Season who will take their chance better than this guy

My point is:
-- we think that it will be the end of the world if we don't even give a chance to Grimaldo and if he goes away from Barca
-- but the board and Lucho have much more experience and they have seen 100s of Grimaldos over the last 20-30-40 years
-- his chances of making here are 10:90 at best

So, he will probably play one more Season in a Bteam.
-- if he will improve hugely, he will maybe get a chance at Barca
-- if he won't improve, he will be loaned/sold with a buyback option
-- if he will eventually explode in some other team, we will maybe buy him back
-- but again, the history showed that the chances that he will suddenly turn into a Barca's level of player aren't too high

So, we, fans, would like to give chances to a lot of young players and to see how will they develop.
We are afraid that we will lose a potential gem.
But the board, who have more experience than us, just see a bunch of 1-2 Million worth players in those guys, and most of them will be average La liga or Segunda level of players.

So, the club will rather lose a potentially good player once in a while, then to give chances to 10 players and to lose trophies in those tests.
So, losing one player once in a while is a lesser loss than losing a trophy TODAY.

But we, on forum, look at it differently.
We think that losing one good player because we didn't give him a chance is worse thing than losing a trophy or some points today...

So, Grimaldo won't get chances in the first team in a season where we are chasing another treble or a sextuple.
He could get a chance if we would have 2-3 huge injuries to our fullbacks.

About Alba, Vidal, Mathieu, Adriano.
Vidal plays on the right, but most of fullbacks can play on both sides, especially at home against Levante and similar.
Plus, imo, I would also rather play Mathieu on the left than Grimaldo, a youngster who has zero chemistry and experience with a first team.

Again, these are Messi's final 3-4-5 years.
Lucho will play on safe, like in the 2nd part of the last Season, where we knew the lineup before every match.

So, Munir will get a chance, Sandro maybe and Samper maybe.
Other guys won't get a chance in Messi's final years.

And as I have said, if needed, we will just buy a random La liga left back (if needed, if Alba gets injured, for example) for 3-8 Millions in January than to play with Grimaldo in another attempt to win a treble/sextuple.

I don't mean anything rude, but we are not Arsenal.
We just "can't" give chances to players.
Players need to earn their chance.
And only extraordinary players get their chance here.
We are Barca. That is a huge burden sometimes.

 

[khaled_a_d]

I personally don't rate Grimaldo.
He is a good player, but NOT Barca's level potentially good player.
-- we think that it will be the end of the world if we don't even give a chance to Grimaldo and if he goes away from Barca

So, he will probably play one more Season in a Bteam.
-- if he will improve hugely, he will maybe get a chance at Barca
-- if he won't improve, he will be loaned/sold with a buyback option

So, we, fans, would like to give chances to a lot of young players and to see how will they develop.
We are afraid that we will lose a potential gem.
But the board, who have more experience than us, just see a bunch of 1-2 Million worth players in those guys, and most of them will be average La liga or Segunda level of players.

1st of all ,Grimaldo has one year left in his contract and tbh unless he really loves this club to a stupid degree .then he will move next year for free with no buyback option or loans

2nd,Grimaldo was one of Barca B best players .I highly doubt anyone would argue against that .he isn't a high potential guy who would turn into top 5 player in his position .but he is closer to S.Roberto type of player (probably better) .a solid player who can develop into solid back up .
we can talk all we wasnt about how gr8 our players are .but like it or not there is huge drop between our starter and our bench players like every team . with an exception of 3-4 players

Adriano right now is horrible LB .Grimaldo is far better than him right now and unfortunately that isn't a praise for Grimaldo .Mathieu can play LB but he never impressed in that position and he is almost 32
In Grimaldo I don't think we are looking for future Alba replacement but more of Adriano replacement in long term .he is the S.Roberto type who can stick 1 or 2 years training and playing even a little with 1st team b4 actually proving to be solid back up you like to have .and save around 10-15M to get a new replacement

So Grimaldo is basically a guy who
1-won't take playing time a lot or cost us trophies
2-will replace old,finished Adriano
3-won't cut Mathieu minutes at LB right now but can take it in the future
I really don't see a downside of it .


And the fact that he wasn't even invited to preseason camp is frustrating .the guy is even better midfielder that Gambua who was called ffs .the fact that the worst stater in the team was called over him mean there is a wrong decision and normally people on forums discuss such decisions .it isn't like we are asking to fire Lucho for just .just complaining about a decision
And just to be clear "the board knows better argument" isn't really the best .we have sold Calcio top scorer and Inter Milan best player for 400k without giving him a minute with Barca B .yeah gr8 evaluator of talent

 

[BBZ8800]

And just to be clear "the board knows better argument" isn't really the best .we have sold Calcio top scorer and Inter Milan best player for 400k without giving him a minute with Barca B .yeah gr8 evaluator of talent

When you have 10-ish talents each Season, it is inevitable that eventually you will make a mistake and let go some player who will turn out to be good.

I can understand the board.
In my eyes, it is still something like:
1. we have 100 talents in 10 years
-- if we will give chances to all 100 players, we won't miss on a single talent, but we will lose some trophies and points TODAY because we are testing too many young players (in order not to lose any potentially good players)
2. option B (what the board and Lucho are doing):
-- out of 100 players, or out of 10 players each Season, we will test/give chances to only 3 players (with the highest potential) per Season. Other 7 players won't get chances, we can't afford that.
-- our of those 30 players (3 per Season, for 10 years), we will probably get 4-5 good players, and yes, we will probably miss on 1-2 talents out of those 70 players whom we won't even test, but that is a risk we are willing to take and that is our burden.
We CAN'T test too many players in order not to lose chemistry/motivation of 1st team players and in order not to lose points and trophies.

I would personally, (I would be a president/sporting director/Lucho) also risk with only 30 out of 100 players, if you get my point...
So, in one hand, I do understand what the board and Lucho are doing currently.

They are trying to balance the points/trophies of the first team and still giving chances to SOME young players.
We can't have both ways/everything (testing all youngsters and good results in the current season).

 

[MessiDinho10]

1st of all ,Grimaldo has one year left in his contract and tbh unless he really loves this club to a stupid degree .then he will move next year for free with no buyback option or loans

2nd,Grimaldo was one of Barca B best players .I highly doubt anyone would argue against that .he isn't a high potential guy who would turn into top 5 player in his position .but he is closer to S.Roberto type of player (probably better) .a solid player who can develop into solid back up .
we can talk all we wasnt about how gr8 our players are .but like it or not there is huge drop between our starter and our bench players like every team . with an exception of 3-4 players

Adriano right now is horrible LB .Grimaldo is far better than him right now and unfortunately that isn't a praise for Grimaldo .Mathieu can play LB but he never impressed in that position and he is almost 32
In Grimaldo I don't think we are looking for future Alba replacement but more of Adriano replacement in long term .he is the S.Roberto type who can stick 1 or 2 years training and playing even a little with 1st team b4 actually proving to be solid back up you like to have .and save around 10-15M to get a new replacement

So Grimaldo is basically a guy who
1-won't take playing time a lot or cost us trophies
2-will replace old,finished Adriano
3-won't cut Mathieu minutes at LB right now but can take it in the future
I really don't see a downside of it .


And the fact that he wasn't even invited to preseason camp is frustrating .the guy is even better midfielder that Gambua who was called ffs .the fact that the worst stater in the team was called over him mean there is a wrong decision and normally people on forums discuss such decisions .it isn't like we are asking to fire Lucho for just .just complaining about a decision
And just to be clear "the board knows better argument" isn't really the best .we have sold Calcio top scorer and Inter Milan best player for 400k without giving him a minute with Barca B .yeah gr8 evaluator of talent

I agree with you about Grimaldo (although I rate him more than you do), but Barcelona was right to sell Icardi to whatever club that wanted him. The kid is flooded with arrogance and he has no idea of morals. On top of that, his behaviour could affect other players in La Masia. Good riddance, I'd say.

 

[khaled_a_d]

When you have 10-ish talents each Season, it is inevitable that eventually you will make a mistake and let go some player who will turn out to be good.

I can understand the board.
In my eyes, it is still something like:
1. we have 100 talents in 10 years
-- if we will give chances to all 100 players, we won't miss on a single talent, but we will lose some trophies and points TODAY because we are testing too many young players (in order not to lose any potentially good players)
2. option B (what the board and Lucho are doing):
-- out of 100 players, or out of 10 players each Season, we will test/give chances to only 3 players (with the highest potential) per Season. Other 7 players won't get chances, we can't afford that.
-- our of those 30 players (3 per Season, for 10 years), we will probably get 4-5 good players, and yes, we will probably miss on 1-2 talents out of those 70 players whom we won't even test, but that is a risk we are willing to take and that is our burden.
We CAN'T test too many players in order not to lose chemistry/motivation of 1st team players and in order not to lose points and trophies.

I would personally, (I would be a president/sporting director/Lucho) also risk with only 30 out of 100 players, if you get my point...
So, in one hand, I do understand what the board and Lucho are doing currently.

They are trying to balance the points/trophies of the first team and still giving chances to SOME young players.

We can't have both ways/everything (testing all youngsters and good results in the current season).

Man,we lost good player we didn't even give a chance in Barca B . we sold Icardi for peanuts .and there was no 10 hyped players in every reason back then .only players was hyped born between 1990-1993 back then was Icari,Thiago and to much lesser extent Rafinha and the defensive group who wasn't really hyped in Montoya and Bartra
The board always make huge mistakes .every board no matter how good it is .and I think the current board wasn't the best with La Masia they rarely made the right decision for our prospects and they lacked sporting vision about it
Lucho is doing the right thing? may be but that doesn't change the fact that he is very vulnerable in making mistakes. no body asked to fire him and no one asked him to play 10 youngsters as you keep arguing against
It is just one of our best & most versatile players with most experience in Barca B hasn't given his fair chance and instead the worst player in the team has been given pre-season invitation .that is a mistake .no way around it

I agree with you about Grimaldo (although I rate him more than you do), but Barcelona was right to sell Icardi to whatever club that wanted him. The kid is flooded with arrogance and he has no idea of morals. On top of that, his behaviour could affect other players in La Masia. Good riddance, I'd say.

look,guy is a cunt and I am happy his name isn't associated with Barca
But Icardi was sold cheap and IIRC nothing was reported about his behaviour when he was here .even Zubi said the reason we sold him because we thought he won't have a chance with Messi here .so we sold a kid too early without even getting him to Barca b to drive his price up b/c there is a chance that he might not fit the team .that was a mistake IMO .you keep your best youngsters and worry for fit later when they are 1st team players

 

[Bran the Greenseer]

I personally don't rate Grimaldo.
He is a good player, but NOT Barca's level potentially good player.
And still, that is not an insult for any player, because probably 1 out of 20 000 players in the world is probably "Barca's level" of quality.

About giving a chance to a potential youngster...
We have just signed a 29-years old for 40 Millions (Arda), instead of buying younger players, giving chances to younger gems like Roberto, Samper, Halilovic etc.

So, again, the philosophy of the club is very clear:
= Barca plays for TODAY, to earn trophies and earn money
= Barca is open to give chances to some youngsters, but only if those youngsters prove that they definitely deserve the chance and if Barca, as a club, really doesn't have any other option that to play/give a chance to youngster

So, Barca will never just give a chance to Adama, Munir, Sandro, Halil, Grimaldo, Deulofeu, Lee, anyone=and then "test" what will happen.

So, no.
Barca don't have the time to test young players, to give them chances and to potentially lose the trophies and some money.
For most of our fans, here on Barcaforum, we think that not giving a chance to Deulofeu, Adama or Grimaldo will be the end of the world.
= and that we are potentially losing a world class player if we don't give him/them some chances

But, it is clear from the last couple of years that the board and coaches look at it this way:
= we have 5-10 promising youngsters
-- if any of them will show huge improvement and huge potential, we will give him a chance
-- if he will play well with the first team, fine
-- if not, so what, it is not the end of the world, there will be 10 other new gems in the next Season who will take their chance better than this guy

My point is:
-- we think that it will be the end of the world if we don't even give a chance to Grimaldo and if he goes away from Barca
-- but the board and Lucho have much more experience and they have seen 100s of Grimaldos over the last 20-30-40 years
-- his chances of making here are 10:90 at best

So, he will probably play one more Season in a Bteam.
-- if he will improve hugely, he will maybe get a chance at Barca
-- if he won't improve, he will be loaned/sold with a buyback option
-- if he will eventually explode in some other team, we will maybe buy him back
-- but again, the history showed that the chances that he will suddenly turn into a Barca's level of player aren't too high

So, we, fans, would like to give chances to a lot of young players and to see how will they develop.
We are afraid that we will lose a potential gem.
But the board, who have more experience than us, just see a bunch of 1-2 Million worth players in those guys, and most of them will be average La liga or Segunda level of players.

So, the club will rather lose a potentially good player once in a while, then to give chances to 10 players and to lose trophies in those tests.
So, losing one player once in a while is a lesser loss than losing a trophy TODAY.

But we, on forum, look at it differently.
We think that losing one good player because we didn't give him a chance is worse thing than losing a trophy or some points today...

So, Grimaldo won't get chances in the first team in a season where we are chasing another treble or a sextuple.
He could get a chance if we would have 2-3 huge injuries to our fullbacks.

About Alba, Vidal, Mathieu, Adriano.
Vidal plays on the right, but most of fullbacks can play on both sides, especially at home against Levante and similar.
Plus, imo, I would also rather play Mathieu on the left than Grimaldo, a youngster who has zero chemistry and experience with a first team.

Again, these are Messi's final 3-4-5 years.
Lucho will play on safe, like in the 2nd part of the last Season, where we knew the lineup before every match.

So, Munir will get a chance, Sandro maybe and Samper maybe.
Other guys won't get a chance in Messi's final years.

And as I have said, if needed, we will just buy a random La liga left back (if needed, if Alba gets injured, for example) for 3-8 Millions in January than to play with Grimaldo in another attempt to win a treble/sextuple.

I don't mean anything rude, but we are not Arsenal.
We just "can't" give chances to players.
Players need to earn their chance.
And only extraordinary players get their chance here.
We are Barca. That is a huge burden sometimes.

Did you read my post? I said if theres a promising youngster its better to play him over a 32 year old non-starter like matheiu or Adriano cause neither of them are that good and building a player for the future is the better option, think messi and guily. I must stress the if because if we have a youngster but in the coach's eyes he is not promising then we shouldn't play him. Which seems to be the case with Grimaldo. If Lucho thought he was promising he would play him as is the case with Rafinha and Munir who both benched pedro when Suarez and Neymar were out.

 

[BBZ8800]

Did you read my post? I said if theres a promising youngster its better to play him over a 32 year old non-starter like matheiu or Adriano cause neither of them are that good and building a player for the future is the better option, think messi and guily. I must stress the if because if we have a youngster but in the coach's eyes he is not promising then we shouldn't play him. Which seems to be the case with Grimaldo. If Lucho thought he was promising he would play him as is the case with Rafinha and Munir who both benched pedro when Suarez and Neymar were out.

Ok, we agree here, yes.

Of course that it is better to play a promising youngster than a 32 year old player who is our 2nd or 3rd option.
The problem is that too many youngsters are "promising".
Some turn into a new Xavi. Most of them turn into a Montoya or much worse.

Now, if Grimaldo is a new Messi or a potential Barca's squad player, then he should play and not Adriano and Mathieu.
But if Grimaldo is the next Montoya, then I would rather play Mathieu and Adriano than the next Montoya.

The problem is that we can't know for 100% whether someone is a new Messi or Montoya.
This is where Lucho and sporting directors/scouts step in.

Imo, their opinion is that Grimaldo is much closer to Montoya than Xavi/Messi and this is why they aren't calling him.
They don't have too much available time to spend minutes/lose some points on new Montoya.

Also, our team is already quite large.
I remember that Rijkaard used to say that he wants a squad with depth, but not too large squad.
Lucho also said something similar, if I remember correctly.

So, they probably want a squad with 18-20-22 players at most, with an option to call Bteam players if needed sometimes.

We already have:
-- Bravo, Mats, Masip
-- Pique, Masch, Mathieu, Vermaelen, Bartra
-- Alves, Alba, Adriano, Vidal, Lord Douglas
-- Busi, Roberto, Raki, Iniesta, Arda
-- Messi, Ney, Sukki, Pedro (??), plus at least one out of Munir/Sandro

That is already 23 players without Samper, without Sandro (if Pedro stays) and without Grimaldo.
Not too mention Adama or Halilovic...

 

[khaled_a_d]

I remember that Rijkaard used to say that he wants a squad with depth, but not too large squad.
Lucho also said something similar, if I remember correctly.

So, they probably want a squad with 18-20-22 players at most, with an option to call Bteam players if needed sometimes.

We already have:
-- Bravo, Mats, Masip
-- Pique, Masch, Mathieu, Vermaelen, Bartra
-- Alves, Alba, Adriano, Vidal, Lord Douglas
-- Busi, Roberto, Raki, Iniesta, Arda
-- Messi, Ney, Sukki, Pedro (??), plus at least one out of Munir/Sandro

That is already 23 players without Samper, without Sandro (if Pedro stays) and without Grimaldo.
Not too mention Adama or Halilovic...

IIRC that was Pep ,he said the perfect squad number is 22-23 .no one would want a squad less than 22 .no way .
And that with 2 GKs ,so outfield players around 20-21 .last year we had 20 +Munir for most part and Sandro for sometime
Adriano agent already said he is going out .
so
-- Pique, Masch, Mathieu, Vermaelen, Bartra
-- Alves, Alba, Vidal, Lord Douglas
-- Busi, Roberto, Raki, Iniesta, Arda
-- Messi, Ney, Sukki, Pedro, Munir,Sandro
so 20 players,2 can't play in 1st half of the season that will have an increased schedule with 5 full games .
1 of them that would rarely get a game in Douglas .one other is Vermaelen who god only knows if he is ever gonna be healthy for the season
that is a thin squad,not large by any means .and if Vermaelen proven unhealthy again then the defensive line would be really thin in the 1st half of the season ,we will basically have only 2 subs only for all 4 positions .
Again ,you didn't answer why Gambua got a pre-season invitation while Grimaldo didn't .even though Grimaldo is better midfielder than him and it is his 2nd position?!

 

[raki]

Ask Lucho. I trust his judgement. Or is it Bartomeu´s fault? lol

 

[BBZ8800]

Again ,you didn't answer why Gambua got a pre-season invitation while Grimaldo didn't .even though Grimaldo is better midfielder than him and it is his 2nd position?!

Two options:
1. Lucho thinks that Gumbau is generally a Barca's level material
2. or Lucho thinks that both Grimaldo and Gumbau aren't good enough for Barca, but Lucho thinks that we are well covered at full backs (Alves, Alba, Vidal, Mathieu, Adriano, xx some other options, Vermaelen maybe if needed), so he doesn't count on Grimaldo in any way.
On the other hand, with midfielders we have "only" Rakitic, Iniesta, Roberto, Rafinha + Busi and eventually Masch.
-- so, maybe Lucho thinks that we need an extra man/option in midfield, and he trusts the most in Gumbau currently

More or less, it is sometimes irrelevant who is actually a better player (Grimaldo or Gumbau), when we are well covered on some positions, or at least Lucho thinks that we are well covered on some positions.
Also, Lucho probably doesn't see Grimaldo as a central midfielder, and he doesn't rate him too high for a left back or a left attacker (Ney's position)

++ Also, I forgot Rafinha in the post above, where I was counting how many players we already have...