Adrien Rabiot

[Vilarrubi]

Don't agree on that at all. Of course it does mean much. It means that one of the strongest clubs of the world wants him to stay. Being a regular starter and playing over 200 games for PSG at age of 23 is a big achievement regardless of what many of us think about PSG.

In relation to what we were talking about it doesn't.. Why wouldn't they want to renew a Paris born, youth product.. it makes sense for them. But you were talking about his personality originally and Khaled mentioned PSG wanting to renew him as some sort of "Oh well he must be okay then is PSG want to renew"... sorry but they are unrelated.

 

[BBZ8800]

I know that but conclusions we can draw from this are;

- Rabiot thinks he's better than he is.
- Doesn't respect managers decision.
- Ruined future possible call ups while Deschamps is in charge.
- Immature for making it public.
- Unwilling to stay quiet and fight for his place like players should.

Dunno... I just think it was pretty pathetic and says a lot about his personality in football, Icardi's just a sleazebag.

This will always cause a lot of hate, but Dembele:
1. said fuck you to Rennes when he wanted to go to Borussia
2. said fuck you to Dortmund and didn't want to train when he wanted to go to Barca
3. lives unhealthy lifestyle (food)
4. Barca gave him a personal chef, he fired him
5. doesn't know how to warm up properly, which may have caused his injuries
6. played even though injured, which may have caused new injuries
7. some say that he lives in an unhealthy family situation currently
8. some say that he lives like a teenager and not a professional footballer

Pique:
1. tons of stupid comments on social media, acting like a kid often
2. gambling problems

Vidal:
1. drinking problems
2. tons of behavior problems

Neymar:
Insert 1000 of stupid things

Imo, a hate for Rabiot is a mixture of not possessing Barca's DNA and some behavior problems.
For example, just imagine that we find out tomorrow that Frenkie has a snake-mom, the same as Rabiot.
Would you guys stop loving Barca's-DNA-Frenkie only because of his mom?

So, Rabiot is too tall, too different than Pep's midfielders and has some behavior problems.

On the other hand, if we would hear similar stories about Dembele, Barca's DNA fans would reply: that's just agenda against poor Dembele, papers hate him.

So, who knows, maybe papers also hate Rabiot's mom and are blowing this out of proportions?
Nah... People decided: Rabiot doesn't have our DNA and they will believe all bad stories.
When we read bad stories about a guy who has Barca's DNA, then stories are blown up out of proportions, it is media's agenda and hate.

So, why bother?

 

[Vilarrubi]

And his mistake with NT is way overblown too, that is undeniable either.
You made an essay of a player personality just based on this. It is bad, and Deschamps is a strict coach but players always get dissappointed when they aren't called and feel to be treated unfairly

How can you not draw those conclusions from what he did? And they were related to his NT issue...
It's not "Doesn't respect ALL manager's decisions AT ALL TIMES"... its "Doesn't respect managers decision" in the France squad issue - which is what we were talking about. You are taking those conclusions too literally.

Also why is he in the 0.001% of footballers not being called up to the NT to go public with it? Most other players who don't get included, stay quiet, get their head down and get on with it... work for your place, don't complain.

Another example like Rabiot's was Nainggolan quitting the NT when he found he wasn't included in the squad. Pathetic really.

 

[DonAK]

Not sure why I was quoted or tagged in this thread just now, but it's been edited away now.

What does Rabiot bring this team that it doesn't have? No one been able to answer this question. Nor have anyone been able to argue against the point of the guy wanting to be a bona-fide starter.

Honestly I couldn't care less now anyway. Become Barca's MO to either sign trash players or sign players hindering others' way.

Let's blame Messi when Barca doesn't live up to expectations in the CL again or do like [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] and claim Rakitic's performances in the competition been superior to Messi's the last few years.

Re-write our own narrative.

 

[khaled_a_d]

How can you not draw those conclusions from what he did? And they were related to his NT issue...
It's not "Doesn't respect ALL manager's decisions AT ALL TIMES"... its "Doesn't respect managers decision" in the France squad issue - which is what we were talking about. You are taking those conclusions too literally.

Also why is he in the 0.001% of footballers not being called up to the NT to go public with it? Most other players who don't get included, stay quiet, get their head down and get on with it... work for your place, don't complain.

Another example like Rabiot's was Nainggolan quitting the NT when he found he wasn't included in the squad. Pathetic really.

Because it is one incident, and you are putting character labels on it more than the rest of his successful career
And lol at the percentage you are saying, problem with NT coaches happens all the time, almost in every NT on regular basis. I mean S.Roberto himself had an indirect dig on Loputgui and he is our 4th captain
Nainggolan is a good example, a great player with problem with his NT coach, didn't affect his club or being a very expensive signing for Inter. Not sure why it should affect judging Rabiot that much

 

[Vilarrubi]

This will always cause a lot of hate, but Dembele:
1. said fuck you to Rennes when he wanted to go to Borussia
2. said fuck you to Dortmund and didn't want to train when he wanted to go to Barca
3. lives unhealthy lifestyle (food)
4. Barca gave him a personal chef, he fired him
5. doesn't know how to warm up properly, which may have caused his injuries
6. played even though injured, which may have caused new injuries
7. some say that he lives in an unhealthy family situation currently
8. some say that he lives like a teenager and not a professional footballer

Pique:
1. tons of stupid comments on social media, acting like a kid often
2. gambling problems

Vidal:
1. drinking problems
2. tons of behavior problems

Neymar:
Insert 1000 of stupid things

Imo, a hate for Rabiot is a mixture of not possessing Barca's DNA and some behavior problems.
For example, just imagine that we find out tomorrow that Frenkie has a snake-mom, the same as Rabiot.
Would you guys stop loving Barca's-DNA-Frenkie only because of his mom?

So, Rabiot is too tall, too different than Pep's midfielders and has some behavior problems.

On the other hand, if we would hear similar stories about Dembele, Barca's DNA fans would reply: that's just agenda against poor Dembele, papers hate him.

So, who knows, maybe papers also hate Rabiot's mom and our blowing this out of proportions?
Nah... People decided: Rabiot doesn't have our DNA and they will believe all bad stories.
When we read bad stories about a guy who has Barca's DNA, then stories are blown up out of proportions, it is media's agenda and hate.

So, why bother?
Imo, it all comes down to having or not having Barca's DNA.

I entered this convo talking about why Rabiot's personality is worse and has more effect on footballing matters than Icardi's would. Nothing to do with whether we should sign him or not based on his personality. I would have him for a good price.

You've drawn conclusions from the general Barcaforum consensus about certain matters, not mine.. I recognise some footballers come with problems and the clubs have got to weigh up whether it's worth this risk or not.

Dembele:

- Agree he's been VERY immature at former clubs but while he's been at Barca his attitude seems better and said some good stuff in interviews.
- Points 3/5/7/8 are opinions not facts.
- High potential - hasn't shown anything near it.


Pique:

- Dislike his immature comments and actions, should be more of a leader and role model for the younger players.
- Seems like your adding things for the sake of it with the gambling thing... he was betting tiny amounts if you weigh it up against the 40million he's worth.

Vidal:

- Hopefully drinking problems/behaviour problems are in the past - players behaviour seems to improve when they come to Barca (Not sure why)
- 1000% worth the risk based on price, the quality of the player, brings something different to the team.

Neymar:

- Clown.
- His talent outweighs his clown antics.

You also forgot Suarez:

- Multiple biting incidents
- Racist incident
- I was 100% for the Suarez transfer despite those problems based on his talent and it worked out for us for a while (No incidents) He was also definitely the best striker in the World for at least one season with us.


I don't see Rabiot with MASSIVE potential.. nothing to do with not having Barca DNA.. I'm not on that hype train at all, i'm against using that phrase, Xavi uses it too much and gets it wrong (Denis Suarez, Fabregas, Seri)

In the games i've watched Rabiot he was pretty good, nothing special and pretty sure he won't be a big name in years to come. I'm one of Rakitic's critics as you know and I think Rakitic is a level above Rabiot.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Can't understand why is everyone so strongly against his signing. I agree that he has problems with his personality but he is a very good player who might be bought for a reasonable price. Not to mention that some of you are worried over his "toxic" personality while in the other thread those same people want to sign Icardi.

Because he offers nothing that we don't already have? Because his signing might impede minutes and the development of our youngsters such as Authur, Alena and Puig (unlike a truly established and world class midfielder, I don't believe he has much to offer our youngsters to learn from)? Because he might become a pricey deadweight that we will have a hard time getting rid of?

 

[Vilarrubi]

Because it is one incident, and you are putting character labels on it more than the rest of his successful career
And lol at the percentage you are saying, problem with NT coaches happens all the time, almost in every NT on regular basis. I mean S.Roberto himself had an indirect dig on Loputgui and he is our 4th captain
Nainggolan is a good example, a great player with problem with his NT coach, didn't affect his club or being a very expensive signing for Inter. Not sure why it should affect judging Rabiot that much

It is one incident but it's going to affect his career until Deschamps leaves (at least 2020) then there's the manager after that who may view it the same as Deschamps. He quite possibly has dug his own grave in terms of the NT. Him going public with the issue could rule him out of NT selection completely as other players solidify their place etc but you think don't seem to think it's that much of a big problem.

That percentage wasn't literal - once again.. how could I possibly work that out. But leading up to a World Cup let's say 24 months prior (through the qualifiers) national teams include anywhere from 30-40 players in their squad.. then they cut it down to 23 for the world cup. Argentina for example used 35 in the last 12 months.. so 13 players were left out. Then think about all the countries doing the same.. so no.. it doesn't happen in almost every national team on a regular basis AT ALL.

Like I said in the post above I never mentioned not signing Rabiot based on personality that was someone else, I was just stating his personality is much more football related than Icardi stealing Maxi Gomez's wife lol

 

[BBZ8800]

Let's blame Messi when Barca doesn't live up to expectations in the CL again or do like [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] and claim Rakitic's performances in the competition been superior to Messi's the last few years.

Re-write our own narrative.

I wanted to add at the end of my post: I do the same as you guys.
Except that I am not biased regarding Barca's DNA.

So, other guys shit on players who don't posses Barca's DNA and EVERYTHING is a problem.
I shit on players whom I don't like, regardless of DNA.
I shit on Dembele, and yes, EVERYTHING is a problem when you don't like a player.

For example, I wanted a physical player, so Vidal's alcohol is not a problem for me.
Because I wanted his type of a player.
Pique is an idiot on social media and gambling.
But I always liked Pique as a player (and as a person more or less), so, I have never mentioned those things against him.

On the other hand, I don't like Dembele as a player, and regarding him EVERY SINGLE THING is a problem, of course.
Mc Donalds, stretching before a match, immaturity, unprofessional lifestyle.

So, I admit, we are all the same.
But, in that sense, I don't think that Rabiot is nearly as bad as people are saying.
He just isn't Barca's DNA type of a lighter, nice passer, silky first touch type of a player.
I mean, look at Arthur's topic, usual Barca's DNA suspects are writing songs and paint pictures about him (exaggerating).

While here, people could get an impression that Rabiot is somewhere on a level between Gumbau and Gomes (from his worst Barca's matches) when he did absolutely everything wrong.

Now, I am biased towards Rabiot since I like that profile of a player, so I may be overrating him, but let's try to see what can he bring to a team:
Stats from league competition last season:

Tackles:
Rabiot 1,8
Rakitic 1,5
Coutinho 1,5
Iniesta 0,9

Interceptions:
Rakitic 1,3
Rabiot 1,0
Coutinho 0,3
Iniesta 0,3

Clearances:
Rabiot 0,6
Rakitic 0,4
Iniesta 0,3
Coutinho 0,2

Blocks:
Rabiot 0,3
Rakitic 0,2
Iniesta 0,1
Coutinho 0,0

Attacking stats:
Assists:
Rabiot 5
Coutinho 5
Rakitic 5
Iniesta 2

Key passes:
Coutinho 1,6
Rabiot 0,8
Rakitic 0,8
Iniesta 0,6

Dribbles:
Coutinho 2,6
Iniesta 2,1
Rabiot 1,2
Rakitic 0,7

So, according to stats:
= he is a better defender than all of our current midfielders. Something like Rakitic, or even better (tackles and loooot of clearances)
= in passing stats, he is behind playmakers Coutinho and Iniesta, but is equal or better than Rakitic

So, I always had an impression that Rabiot (or some similar player) is a "future Rakitic" for our team.
Some kind of a semi-workhorse who can run, pass, defend.
He is not the new Iniesta or the new Xavi.
He is closest to a new Rakitic.
So, guys who want Arthur or Thiago as a new controller-Xavi, surely won't like Rabiot.
On the other hand, guys who appreciate Rakitic's efforts, could be more closer to positive opinion about Rabiot.

So, stats say that he is better in defending than all current players.
He is young, so he is better than Vidal, Rakitic, Coutinho, Iniesta, Rafinha, Denis in that part.
Further, majority won't care, but he is the tallest player (191cm) among all of our midfielders (Rakitic 183, Rafinha 174, Arthur 173, Coutinho 172, Iniesta 171), which could help in some defensive duels, especially in arial duels in a CL, and against corners, for example, remember Roma, Atletico, Real, any English team.
Further, bigger experience than other young players.
He participated in 6 CLs already, playing 31 matches.
Also, he seems more like a cunt than majority of our schoolboys and could offer something slightly different in that area.
Also, he can play both as a defensive midfielder and as central or more attacking midfielder. Quite versatile.

This is why I have said a few times, ALL of our youngsters are the same, as watching Spain's NT team with 5 midfielders who look and play like 5 clones.
Frenkie, Arthur, Puig, Alena, Samper.
Some are controllers, some are Iniestas, but in terms of skills, they are all Barca's DNA guys with a nice first touch, good technique and passing.
None is too physical, none is aggressive (except maybe Arthur), none is tall, none is good in the air. Majority (except Arthur) are light in defense.

So, in short: a versatile, young, experienced midfielder, with a different profile than 90% of our young midfielders.

Now, if you accept that he is not the next Xavi or Iniesta, but more like a new Raki, sit down, relax and watch the video with that idea.
He doesn't look THAT bad anymore, doesn't he?

 

[DonAK]

No BBZ,

You just have other obsessions and have a constant need to put down certain players just because other people like them. A need to be a contrarian and present your own opinions with nitpicked stats as facts. That's what it is.

You're obsessed with heigh and strength regardless of whether they are good enough or not.

I would keep Rakitic any time over Rabiot. Stats don't tell the true story, they rarely do. I could pull up stats showing Jean-Michael Seri is a superior player to Rabiot.

Will you dispute that? Do you really want to go down this route playing your nitpicked stats game? Because I can do the same.

 

[Gnidrologist]

I certainly don't want a ''future Rakitic".

 

[BBZ8800]

No BBZ,

You just have other obsessions and have a constant need to put down certain players just because other people like them. A need to be a contrarian and present your own opinions with nitpicked stats as facts. That's what it is.

You're obsessed with heigh and strength regardless of whether they are good enough or not.

I would keep Rakitic any time over Rabiot. Stats don't tell the true story, they rarely do. I could pull up stats showing Jean-Michael Seri is a superior player to Rabiot.

Will you dispute that? Do you really want to go down this route playing your nitpicked stats game? Because I can do the same.

Why am I not shitting on Coutinho, Umtiti, Mats from favorite players then? I was against Mats in the past, I am on his side now.
If I were a hater of everything, I would still shit on Mats.
I said that I shit on purpose when the hype is too strong (imo, for no reason), but on majority of players I am throwing hate because I don't like them as Barca's players (Neymar and Dembele as the best examples).

About stats, wow.
We can't use the eye test, because each of us is subjective.
If I say that Rakitic covers more ground and closes down (without those things being visible in stats), DonAndres or someone will post stats how Busquets is better, or how Thiago is a God on Earth in everything, according to tackles on Whoscored.
So, if I tell you: use your eye test to see how much Rakitic is covering, majority of guys won't do that and they will just use an eye test for Barca's DNA test in attack and reply: his passing is not good for our (Barca's DNA) level.

So, we can't use eye test.
And we can't use stats.

How will we then use this forum in the future and discuss about players, Don, lol?

About Seri, again, let's see:
Tackles:
Rabiot 1,8
Seri 0,8

Interceptions:
Rabiot 1,0
Seri 0,8

Clearances:
Rabiot 0,6
Seri 0,6

Dribbled past per game:
Seri 1,5
Rabiot 0,6

Attacking:
Key passes:
Seri 2,1
Rabiot 0,8

Dribbles:
Rabiot 1,2
Seri 1,2

So, what we see?
Seri is better at passes, Rabiot is better in defending.
And now, again, add some eye test and things like pace, Seri's too weak physique, stamina.
If you want a nice passer and problems in defense: pick Seri.
If you want an average passer and very good defending and physique: pick Rabiot.

Then, as I have said, you need a context:
If you have Rakitic in midfield and you are looking for his partner, then Seri-Rakitic is better than Rabiot-Rakitic.
But, if your player is Iniesta, then you can't play Iniesta-Seri, but Iniesta-Rabiot.

In that sense, about Rabiot, the question is: what do we need?
90% of Barcaforum posters think that we need 2 new Xavi and Iniestas, but our coaches and the board obviously want a different profile for 2018 and future.
Rakitic.
Then we bought Gomes who was supposed to like a younger Raki.
He failed.
Then we bought another player like Raku=Paulinho.
He wasn't good enough in passing.
We sold him and bought YET another similar player, Vidal.
Now we are after Rabiot, who is that type, but younger.

So, again, if your idea of Barca's midfield in the future is: Arthur-Frenkie, you won't like Rakitic, Rabiot and a similar profile.

On the other hand, I grew up with Frenkies and Arthurs from 90s and 00s, and I don't want to see ever again 2 light midfielders alone, UNLESS if their names are Xavi and Iniesta.

in short, my theory is:
1. 2 physically light CMs can't win a CL
2. 2 physically light CMs can win a CL only once in 100 years, when you pair prime Xavi, Iniesta and Messi in the same moment. If one of them is gone, forget about it.
3. what can win a CL in 98% of other seasons: 1 Xavi/Iniesta paired with one Van Bommel/Rakitic

We have been here 100s of times.
Other guys can now write 100s of replies how it is actually possible to win a CL with lighter players, posting RM as an example.
And I have told 1000s of times: for the beginning, they have Casemiro. We don't have similar players.
Yet, in attack, they had CR7 with feet and headers, unlike us.
So, Real didn't win a CL because of Isco and Modric, how some guys see it.
They won it because of Isco, Modric paired with muscles (Casemiro) and paired with attack who can score with feet, head and counters.

Now, let's go back to Barca:
Frenkie-Arthur midfield:
1. you have Isco's and Modric's copy now
2. you still don't have Casemiro's copy, but Busi
3. you still don't have an attack who can score with feet, head, counters

So, RM's CL winning team has several levels of greatness.
And our fans see only: Modric and Isco, lol.

So, fine, Don, I am with you with Frenkie and Arthur.
If you don't want Raki and Rabiot, let's play with Frenkie and Arthur.
But then, kick our Busi and buy one Casemiro.
And also, buy CR7 and Benzema for attack (feet&headers).

Ok, there are tons of other factors like pace, mobility, mental strength, tactics.
But I personally watched Frenkies and Arthurs for 20 years in a CL and I am tired of them because they ALWAYS lose in the end, this way or another.

So, I personally need Van Bommels, Rakitics, Rabiots and similar for a CL.
You don't need them yet.
Maybe you'll come closer to my views in the future.

I certainly don't want a ''future Rakitic".

Can you write your dream midfield trio in let's say 4 years:
Frenkie/Alena
Arthur
-- add some light pivot, let's say Oriol

You think that THIS is the way to go in a CL?

Fine, let' see...

 

[Gnidrologist]

What awesome thing did Rakitic ever bring us? We weren't destroying CL in 2015 thanks to him. He put a solid effort in not failing, but that's it. He was a huge downgrade to Barca's midfield not only because he replaced Xavi, but due to his inability to participate in fluid attacking play. If it weren't for MSN and Lucho getting best oout of them we'd won nothing that season.
It's not that i don't like him as a player, but he came at the time, where better options weren't available and we needed replacement for old man Xavi asap. Now options are better. There's no need to consciously search for 'rakitic type' player. If you want some physicality in midfield there are still better options than slowbro Rabiot. I would understand if you asked for someone like Kante.

 

[Porque]

Attacking stats:
Assists:
Rabiot 5
Coutinho 5
Rakitic 5
Iniesta 2

Key passes:
Coutinho 1,6
Rabiot 0,8
Rakitic 0,8
Iniesta 0,6

Love the consistency and perception bias of highlighting and bolding Rabiot on these two stats.

Are assists worth more in Ligue 1 than in LaLiga? Are key passes worth more in Ligue1 than LaLiga? If not, why are you placing Rabiot higher on the stats just to suit your arguement?

 

[Barcilliant]

Love the consistency and perception bias of highlighting and bolding Rabiot on these two stats.

Are assists worth more in Ligue 1 than in LaLiga? Are key passes worth more in Ligue1 than LaLiga? If not, why are you placing Rabiot higher on the stats just to suit your arguement?

BINGO. LA liga is much superior to farmers league. We have too many midfielders already and what is so special about Rabiot? He is not a new Iniesta or a Kante even.