Adrien Rabiot

[raki]

Football is more than stats. Rakitic is very important to our defensive workrate.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Love the consistency and perception bias of highlighting and bolding Rabiot on these two stats.

Are assists worth more in Ligue 1 than in LaLiga? Are key passes worth more in Ligue1 than LaLiga? If not, why are you placing Rabiot higher on the stats just to suit your arguement?

I was about to say the same. One LaLiga goal/assist is not equal to farmers league goal/assist.

 

[KingMessi]

What awesome thing did Rakitic ever bring us? We weren't destroying CL in 2015 thanks to him. He put a solid effort in not failing, but that's it. He was a huge downgrade to Barca's midfield not only because he replaced Xavi, but due to his inability to participate in fluid attacking play. If it weren't for MSN and Lucho getting best oout of them we'd won nothing that season.
It's not that i don't like him as a player, but he came at the time, where better options weren't available and we needed replacement for old man Xavi asap. Now options are better. There's no need to consciously search for 'rakitic type' player. If you want some physicality in midfield there are still better options than slowbro Rabiot. I would understand if you asked for someone like Kante.

Revisionism at its finest. Rakitic was one of our best players during that 14/15 treble season. Granted, the whole team was on fire, but that doesn't mean you should discredit Rakitic.

 

[Gnidrologist]

I don't discredit. I said he didn't fail, which for player like him in Barca uniform is a great compliment. Work rate alone is still not enough and his low agility inability to work effectively in tight spaces or while receiving the ball with his back against the goal just makes our midfield too sluggish. You're right that the whole team was on fire, which is why everything went so well. You can immediately see that when the team is struggling he is almost never the difference maker and slows down the play even more than old Xavi and Iniesta. Nothing revisionist about that.
He's far far better in fast transition football, where there is space to be had, which is why he was regular MoM at Sevilla and worked well in 2015, when we played a lot of counter attacking football.

 

[Bulgroz]

I was about to say the same. One LaLiga goal/assist is not equal to farmers league goal/assist.

Yeah, because as we all know, Las Palmas and Deportivo are tough cookies to crack, so scoring against them is ten times harder than scoring against Toulouse or Caen. And you should know, because you're watching Ligue 1 every weekend and know a lot about the defenders in those teams.

I'm very tired of that type of that kind of nonsense by people who obviously don't know what they're talking about.

Are the top teams in Spain or England way better than top teams in France ? Yes. It is pretty obvious, and that's what the UEFA ranking shows. Thing is, UEFA ranking can't mesure how the lesser teams are doing, for a pretty simple reason: they're not playing european competition.

Moreover, there's something you don't take into account. There's the general level of the teams. And there's how they play. For quite a while, most french teams played very defensively. A lot of them parked the bus on a regular basis. It's getting better, as more and more coaches are trying to get their teams to play a slightly more spectacular football. But it's a slow process. Scoring against a mediocre team playing with 10 men in their last 30 meters is not necessarily easier than scoring against a decent team playing all attack.

"So, Loserito", you might ask, if you're even a tiny bit concerned about having a fair judgment and not just muttering nonsense just because you read it somewhere, "how can we know if it's easier to score and assist in Ligue 1, compared to la Liga ?".

Well, FinBarcelonafan (but that could also be directed at many people here), there's no easy way to know. One way could be to compare players who left Ligue 1 to a "bigger" league, or players who arrived in France after several years in another country. That wouldn't necessarily say much though. You get examples going both ways, and many people don't have the tiniest clues of what's really going on here since you're not watching the league (I've seen somebody mentioning Di Maria as an amazing example, without apparently knowing that Di Maria's last season in Madrid is fairly comparable to his first two seasons in Paris, stat-wise). Sure, you can mention Balotelli who scored more in Ligue 1 than in any other league, but that would mean forgetting how many penalties he scored. And even without taking that into account, all you could get from that is an example. And you can't win an argument with an example. You probably think you have tons of other examples. And it might be true. But believe me, I have as many examples going my way.
Another option would be to listen to the players who played in several leagues. I'm not sure you'll see many of them saying that scoring in Ligue 1 is super easy. I'm actuallly pretty sure you'll hear the opposite pretty often (I've read several interviews where those players mentioned the fact that spanish teams are way better with the ball than french teams, but are less physical, and not as defensive). But that's just players talking to journalists, and you can't know for sure if they mean it.

Then what ? Well, you can watch french football regularly and try to get your own opinion. Or, you can continue not watching it. But then your opinion is pretty useless and I don't see the point in posting it, because it means you have no idea what you're talking about.

All that being said, and getting back to the topic here: is Rabiot better than Rakitic ? Right now, obviously not. There's a case to be made about Rabiot not being in the french NT. Deschamps probably doesn't think he's not better than Nzonzi. One reason is purely tactical: Nzonzi can hel strenghten our defense when needs be (and that's how he's been used during the WC). Also, Nzonzi has a great mentality, and Rabiot hasn't. Not that he's a terrible guy, mind you. But he's not great in that departmen, and he's not good enough on the pitch for Deschamps to just overlook that. Had he been world class, he would have been in the group anyway. But he's not.

Still, he's 7 years younger than Raki. His performance on the first leg against Barcelona 2 years ago was absolutely huge. He was only 21.
Problem is, he hasn't improve that much. Some might even say the opposite, but I wouldn't go as far.
If we're just talking about the player, I'd say he could be a good fit for Barcelona. He's not as slow as many here say, and he's actually very versatile. But when you're talking about him, you can't just talk footballwise, and that would be a problem, unless he grows up and get a decent agent instead of his fucking mother.

 

[BBZ8800]

Love the consistency and perception bias of highlighting and bolding Rabiot on these two stats.

Are assists worth more in Ligue 1 than in LaLiga? Are key passes worth more in Ligue1 than LaLiga? If not, why are you placing Rabiot higher on the stats just to suit your arguement?

BINGO. LA liga is much superior to farmers league. We have too many midfielders already and what is so special about Rabiot? He is not a new Iniesta or a Kante even.

I was about to say the same. One LaLiga goal/assist is not equal to farmers league goal/assist.

La liga has 2 best clubs in the world, Barca and Real.
That doesn't mean that bottom table clubs are good.
We have Atletico, Sevilla and some top 5-6 decent teams.
And then, we have tons of other clubs in La liga on whom CR7 often statpadded in 11:1 victories.

I am not saying that La Liga isn't better than Ligue 1.
But if I used that argument in some other topics like: Dembele's stats from Rennes means nothing since that is a farmers league where they have lots of players with one leg and who play barefoot.

Anyway, since we can't compare farmer's league and and La liga, let's try something else.
Comparing stats from Champions league:

Tackles:
Kroos 1,6
Rabiot 1,5
Iniesta 1,4
Modric 1,4
Rakitic 1,3
Isco 1,3
Coutinho 0,6

Interceptions:
Rakitic 1,6
Rabiot 1,5
Modric 1,3
Iniesta 1,0
Coutinho 0,8
Kroos 0,6
Isco 0,2

Clearances:
Rabiot 1,6
Modric 0,4
Iniesta 0,4
Coutinho 0,4
Rakitic 0,2
Isco 0,1
Kroos 0

Dribbled past per game (a negative stat):
Isco 1,5
Rakitic 1,2
Modric 1,2
Iniesta 1,1
Kroos 1,1
Rabiot 1,0
Coutinho 0,4

Attacking:

Assists:
Coutinho 2 (4 matches)
Rabiot 2 (8 matches)
Iniesta 2 (8 matches)
Isco 2 (10 matches)
Kroos 1 (10 matches)
Modric 1 (11 matches)
Rakitic 0 (8 matches)

Passing percentage:
Kroos 93,9%
Rabiot 92,9%
Isco 91,5%
Rakitic 91,0%
Iniesta 90,2%
Modric 89,9%
Coutinho 80,7%

Key passes:
Coutinho 2,6
Kroos 2,0
Isco 1,7
Iniesta 1,0
Rakitic 0,8
Modric 0,8
Rabiot 0,5

Dribbles:
Coutinho 3,4
Iniesta 2,0
Isco 1,7
Modric 1,5
Rabiot 1,3
Rakitic 0,4
Kroos 0,2

Bad control per game (a negative stat):
Coutinho 1,6
Iniesta 1,4
Isco 1,3
Modric 1,2
Rakitic 0,7
Kroos 0,7
Rabiot 0,6

So, out of these 7 midfielders (I didn't count pivots Busquets and Casemiro), Rabiot is:
The best: clearances, and the lowest amount of bad control lost balls per match
2nd best: tackles, interceptions, the lowest amount of dribbled past per match, assists in total, successful pass % percentage
Average: in dribbles per match
Last position: key passes per match

I know that guys will now jump: we NEED key passes! That's the most important thing.
Well, he is Rakitic's sub, not a new Iniesta.
And as always: he is young. He is 23. He will learn and improve a lot. (For example, he is 2 Months YOUNGER than Sergi Samper, or 1 year older than Arthur, 2 years older than "young kid" Dembele.)
So, if these kids need time and they will improve a lot, we could also assume that Rabiot's skills will improve over time, right?
And currently, he is already EQUAL or BETTER in defensive skills than ALL of these (older) players.
And decent in passing %, dribbles, assists.
He only lacks key passes from current stats.

As I have said yesterday guys, you can't deny that he is quite good young player and a different profile to what we currently have.
His only problem is that he doesn't look, play and move like a typical Barca's DNA player.

First it was: League 1 is poor, this is why his stats were good.
Now, after I have posted CL's stats, replies will be: stats don't tell the whole story.

Guys, save us time and just write: he doesn't play/move/pass like Xavi, Iniesta, Alena, Arthur and similar and that's it.

 

[Vilarrubi]

La liga has 2 best clubs in the world, Barca and Real.
That doesn't mean that bottom table clubs are good.
We have Atletico, Sevilla and some top 5-6 decent teams.
And then, we have tons of other clubs in La liga on whom CR7 often statpadded in 11:1 victories.

That's a myth you know.. I wish I could find it but someone did the stats a season or two ago on twitter and it showed La Liga bottom half clubs took more points from the top half clubs than EPL etc

 

[mc_lovin]

Stats are the biggest pile of shit.

 

[BBZ8800]

That's a myth you know.. I wish I could find it but someone did the stats a season or two ago on twitter and it showed La Liga bottom half clubs took more points from the top half clubs than EPL etc

Imo, the only way to see which league is better and by how much is to merge both leagues into one big league with 40 teams and then see the table in the end.

Or play 1st vs 1st, 2nd vs 2nd until the 20th vs 20th.

Barca beating Chelsea and Sevilla beating Man Utd really doesn't say too much about quality of Getafe, Levante and Las Palmas vs West Ham, Stoke and similar.

Cr7 winning and scoring against City or Liverpool doesn't make Alaves or Getafe any stronger.
Equally, if Real will suck now in Europe without CR7, Getafe won't suddenlybe weaker than in the last season.

La liga had Top2 teams in the last decade and top2 goalscorers ever.
Due to a success of Real and Barca, fans have started to overrate overal quality of La liga.

The same, Italian teams were dominating European cups in 90s.
That still didn't mean that Piacenza, Empoli and Salernitana were better than random Spanish or German teams back then.
It meant only that their top teams were the best in Europe in that era.

These tests and comparisons are extremely complicated and almost impossible to answer.

 

[Vilarrubi]

Imo, the only way to see which league is better and by how much is to merge both leagues into one big league with 40 teams and then see the table in the end.

Or play 1st vs 1st, 2nd vs 2nd until the 20th vs 20th.

Barca beating Chelsea and Sevilla beating Man Utd really doesn't say too much about quality of Getafe, Levante and Las Palmas vs West Ham, Stoke and similar.

Cr7 winning and scoring against City or Liverpool doesn't make Alaves or Getafe any stronger.
Equally, if Real will suck now in Europe without CR7, Getafe won't suddenlybe weaker than in the last season.

La liga had Top2 teams in the last decade and top2 goalscorers ever.
Due to a success of Real and Barca, fans have started to overrate overal quality of La liga.

The same, Italian teams were dominating European cups in 90s.
That still didn't mean that Piacenza, Empoli and Salernitana were better than random Spanish or German teams back then.
It meant only that their top teams were the best in Europe in that era.

These tests and comparisons are extremely complicated and almost impossible to answer.

I get what you are saying.. no stats in football are fully conclusive. But seeing how many points the bottom half takes off the top is a pretty good one.

Player stats are much worse.. like the ones you posted for Rabiot.

For example.. the style of the team is everything in these sorts of stats.

A more defensive team or end to end sort of team (TEAM A) would have more interceptions generally than a team who dominate possession (TEAM B)

So player from TEAM A would likely have more interceptions per game than the player from TEAM B.... does it mean he is better at interceptions... Nope.

With these sort of stats there are endless possibilities and factors what can affect them, sometimes they give you pretty good picture, but it's never as simple as it seems.

League stats are much more informative than player stats. Neither being perfect.

 

[Laplacian]

I wanted to add at the end of my post: I do the same as you guys.
Except that I am not biased regarding Barca's DNA.

So, other guys shit on players who don't posses Barca's DNA and EVERYTHING is a problem.
I shit on players whom I don't like, regardless of DNA.
I shit on Dembele, and yes, EVERYTHING is a problem when you don't like a player.

For example, I wanted a physical player, so Vidal's alcohol is not a problem for me.
Because I wanted his type of a player.
Pique is an idiot on social media and gambling.
But I always liked Pique as a player (and as a person more or less), so, I have never mentioned those things against him.

On the other hand, I don't like Dembele as a player, and regarding him EVERY SINGLE THING is a problem, of course.
Mc Donalds, stretching before a match, immaturity, unprofessional lifestyle.

It's a good thing you finally came out of your shell, hiding behind the "i follow the objective facts" narrative. So you eat up tabloid shit, make up shit, and write shit about players because Barcelona didn't get the players you wanted. You just admitting to hating Dembele simply for hating Dembele and that you'll do anything to keep posting hate simply because you want to. No not everyone does this, not even close. You are the only on this website pathetic enough to go to such lengths. I honestly don't understand how you're not banned yet, complete and utter toxicity you bring to in every single thread.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Thanks but no thanks

 

[BBZ8800]

It's a good thing you finally came out of your shell, hiding behind the "i follow the objective facts" narrative. So you eat up tabloid shit, make up shit, and write shit about players because Barcelona didn't get the players you wanted. You just admitting to hating Dembele simply for hating Dembele and that you'll do anything to keep posting hate simply because you want to. No not everyone does this, not even close. You are the only on this website pathetic enough to go to such lengths. I honestly don't understand how you're not banned yet, complete and utter toxicity you bring to in every single thread.

If you read a post about Rabiot above, there are tons of objective facts.
Some exaggeration (players playing barefoot) and banter.

More or less any poster has a bias and love/hate for some players, some coaches, different tactics and future directions of our team.

About Dembele, I don't like him as a player and I don't think that he will ever be good enough to be a key player here.
And then, as majority, when I dislike someone, like Dembele, I am "buying" bad rumors from papers.
On the other hand, when I like a player, like Rabiot, I don't mind rumors.

But as I have said, majority of us are the same, the only difference is whom we like from players.

When Bartra cried in a locker room and didn't want to play, it wasn't a problem for 90% of fans since he was a beloved La Masia, Barca's DNA player and a future of Barca.
Bad things can be easily forgotten (as long as he was young, hyped and had a bright future here).
When Samper didn't want to play for Barca B when they faced a relegation, that wasn't being a pussy, but showing his love for Barca.
And not to much was written about that incident...

On the other hand, when Rabiot fights with Deschamps or have an evil mom: the end. The guy is dead for our fans. We need 1000s of posts about that.
But, not because he made a horrible crime but because people don't like him as a player and then they exaggerate with other reasons.

You don't like Rabiot's skills and then his mom is a huge dealbreaker.
I don't like Dembele's skills and then even McDonalds and stretching are a problem.

The only difference is that Dembele's is currently the biggest gem for a majority of our fans, so bad comments (regarding skills or rumors) are not too welcomed by majority of fans.

But at the end of the day, Dembele's McDonalds and Rabiot's mom are as equally as retarded reasons for not wanting a player here.

 

[Laplacian]

If you read a post about Rabiot above, there are tons of objective facts.
Some exaggeration (players playing barefoot) and banter.

More or less any poster has a bias and love/hate for some players, some coaches, different tactics and future directions of our team.

About Dembele, I don't like him as a player and I don't think that he will ever be good enough to be a key player here.
And then, as majority, when I dislike someone, like Dembele, I am "buying" bad rumors from papers.
On the other hand, when I like a player, like Rabiot, I don't mind rumors.

But as I have said, majority of us are the same, the only difference is whom we like from players.

When Bartra cried in a locker room and didn't want to play, it wasn't a problem for 90% of fans since he was a beloved La Masia, Barca's DNA player and a future of Barca.
Bad things can be easily forgotten (as long as he was young, hyped and had a bright future here).
When Samper didn't want to play for Barca B when they faced a relegation, that wasn't being a pussy, but showing his love for Barca.
And not to much was written about that incident...

On the other hand, when Rabiot fights with Deschamps or have an evil mom: the end. The guy is dead for our fans. We need 1000s of posts about that.
But, not because he made a horrible crime but because people don't like him as a player and then they exaggerate with other reasons.

You don't like Rabiot's skills and then his mom is a huge dealbreaker.
I don't like Dembele's skills and then even McDonalds and stretching are a problem.

The only difference is that Dembele's is currently the biggest gem for a majority of our fans, so bad comments (regarding skills or rumors) are not too welcomed by majority of fans.

But at the end of the day, Dembele's McDonalds and Rabiot's mom are as equally as retarded reasons for not wanting a player here.

Lmao shut the fuck up. No one welcomes your posts cause its made up tabloid crap , sometimes crap you made up yourself too. Fans are allowed to talk shit about Rabiot's mom and Vidal's alcohol problems because those are actually things we can verify with first hand sources, whereas your claims like "Dembele likes mcdonalds everyday hurr durr" is unverified shit from tabloids. You're pathetic. Are you really a Barcelona supporter? It's like you don't even enjoy football, you live and breathe to spread negativity about our players.

"I will hate on a player and will use anything, ANYTHING to shit on him."

Absolutely fucking pathetic.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Had to brofist Bulgroz. He made some good points. Some people here are either hugely overrating la liga's lower tier teams or underrating ligue's. From what i've watched they suck approximately equally and most of them are parking very generic bus against Barca at least, so i wouldn't believe PSG has more/less problems breaking them down on average than Barca in liga. Difference maker is that the 2+1 top tier teams, which ligue hasn't. It's a one horse race most of the time recently just like in ze deuchland.
Still don't like Rabiot. I want me some moar silky schoolboy midgets lel.