Alen Halilović

[BBZ8800]

Khaled, ok. But you are mentioning Messi, Cristiano and Robben.

We shouldn't compare any players with Messi and Ronaldo. Because 99,9% of all players are miles behind them, imo.

Messi was equally as old as Halilovic, when he was already better than Guily, and when he was one of our important players in winning CL in 2006.
Halilovic is in Barca B, and we can't say that he is showing some world-class skills and maturity in a B-team (if you get my point. I know, Bteam is poor, but I am just saying that comparing him with Messi is insane. Messi in his age was already Messi. He wasn't as polished as today, but he was a world class in a lot of areas. He was a world class in Barca, and he played for Argentina an important role in World cup 2006.)

Cristiano? I remember the night when I watched him live in Sporting vs Man. Utd in 2003, and when MU bought him a few days later, after they failed to buy Ronaldinho.
He was 18 back then, and I used to watch MU games that Season. He was entering in the last 30 minutes in each match, and already after a few matches, MU fans started to sing: "There's only one Ronaldo" (because Brasilian Ronaldo was the "true" Ronaldo back then).
Anyway, I remember in those days, young Cristiano already made an impact in all matches, and he was the player whom you wanted to pass the ball.
Also, he was a free kick taker right away.
-- at the age of 19, Ronaldo already played an important part in Portuguese NT team during Euro 2004, and he was chosen in All star team of that competition

Now, Halilovic is faaaaaar, faaaaaar from starting 11 of Croatian NT team.
Not to mention how far he is from a role of a leader or something like that.

Look here, Ronaldo was here equally as old as Halilovic is today (18):

-- and look how Cristiano played in Man. Utd in his first Season
-- further, he was somewhat selfish, but Ronaldo was never "dumb" on the field
-- he knew when to dribble, when to pass, when to shoot (unlike Quaresma, who was pretty "dumb" and had horrible decisions)
-- the only thing is that he was more "playful" on the field and he was sometimes slowing down the actions with his tricks (like Neymar in Barca)
-- so, Ronaldo was a huge star even when aged 18, and his decisions were very decent (of course, he improved in everything over time. But he was never "dumb" in decisions, let's say it that way)

About Robben, I know that he played in Psv, and in Chelsea later, when he was 20+, so I won't comment about him here, because he was older.

Anyway, I see your point. I was watching some of Messi's older videos now, and yes, he was selfish and "dumb" in some actions.
But I would say, roughly, that he was mature and smart in 80% of actions and young, naive and made rookie mistakes in 20% of actions.
But, he was already 80% smart and mature even when he was aged 18-19.

My opinion, Halil still has around 50% of actions where you can say: wtf? why have you done this or that again?
So, yes, he will surely improve in decisions making when he is around the box, but if you get my point, Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi and other guys are "naturally" more aware of everything and they have naturally much higher skill "decisions, tactical intelligence" etc...

So, for example, in numbers:
-- Messi improved from 80% in decisions to 99% today
-- Ronaldo the same
-- but Halil/Adama has 50% currently. And he can improve to 70-80%, but he will never have as good decisions as some guys who had better decisions even in the early age

That is a thing why I don't like/have too much faith in Halil, Adama and Deulo.
They are all "dumb" in decisions in key moments, and I am not too sure how much they will improve, because they are already 18-19-20 years old.

Don't kill me now, Khaled


So, they are surely weaker and "dumber" than Messi and Ronaldo.
But it is hard to tell whether they are better than "regular guys".

 

[khaled_a_d]

I am not comparing Alen to them,but those are the best players around and I am saying if those had their weakness when they were at that age we can accept other player weakness .
I said it b4 that you are setting the bar high to the kids if you are gonna compare them to Xavi/Iniesta/Messi so I am trying not to do the same :beer2:
Messi and Cr7 were indeed special at the age of 18,and they have reached some new levels that no footballers probably has ever reached ,that doesn't mean every superstar was that good at young age .and not every teen player doing gr8 will be as good .Bojan at 17 played better 1st team football than Messi when he was 17 too and it didn't matter
BTW I think you are overrating Messi decision making at young age,I truly hated his football iq back then but he was just too talented to mask it for most of the fans ,or may be it is just me
Again I want to firmly stress on my main point,talent wise Halilovic has the god gifts that can make him gr8 player.It is up to him to fulfil his potential or waste it and be forgotten like many other kids .that is the key with potential,Giovanni Dos Santos probably is the second most talented La Masia after Messi and the club sold him with no regrets when he was 19 because he was lazy kid who was interested in partying more than playing .no one expected Pedro to make it here but he was hard worker

 

[Haremzg]

We will have to sit back and see how Halilovic will turn out to be. It could be somewhere close to Messi one day, or it could be something like Dos Santos, Krkic... Imho his realistic potential is to be on the level of Modric or David Silva, and those are amazing players, not the best in the world but they are close.

This 2-3 year will be crucial for Halil development. At this point he has amazing tehnique, good dribbling, sense for creativity, solid passing. He LACKS of: first of all strenght, then slighty lacking in decision making, his shot is mostly still unprecise, and more defensive contribution.

If he manages to put on some muscle mass, his explosive power and speed will rise, he will be capable to take on more players. And offcourse he will have strenght to have a better shot.

In this season in Barca B he has improved his defensive skills, teamplay. So the physical aspect should be his priority, and his shooting precision. Also he needs to have better team mates, Barca b is very poor, sometimes i think its maybe better that he goes somewhere on a loan, for a year or 2.

He will be a very good player for sure.

 

[BBZ8800]

We will have to sit back and see how Halilovic will turn out to be. It could be somewhere close to Messi one day, or it could be something like Dos Santos, Krkic... Imho his realistic potential is to be on the level of Modric or David Silva, and those are amazing players, not the best in the world but they are close.

This 2-3 year will be crucial for Halil development. At this point he has amazing tehnique, good dribbling, sense for creativity, solid passing. He LACKS of: first of all strenght, then slighty lacking in decision making, his shot is mostly still unprecise, and more defensive contribution.

If he manages to put on some muscle mass, his explosive power and speed will rise, he will be capable to take on more players. And offcourse he will have strenght to have a better shot.

In this season in Barca B he has improved his defensive skills, teamplay. So the physical aspect should be his priority, and his shooting precision. Also he needs to have better team mates, Barca b is very poor, sometimes i think its maybe better that he goes somewhere on a loan, for a year or 2.

He will be a very good player for sure.

Harem, I guess that you from, Zagreb (Zg) Croatia, right?

I know that I am "boring" with that part, but you are again mentioning Modric, who again is much "smarter" player, and was extremely smart already in the young age.

Too often, football fans are obsessed with player's technique and they are judging player's potential mostly based on player's natural potential in terms of technique. (aka, he dribbles like crazy when he is aged 16, so he will probably be a world class player)

If you look closely, every single world's top player is extremely intelligent in decision's making.
Messi, Cristiano, Zlatan.
Or Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Ronaldinho, Etoo, Rivaldo, Guardiola, Koeman etc.

For example, these are a few of "dumber" players who played for our team and had horrible decision's making in key moments (in my opinion):
-- Alexis Sanchez, Guily, Belletti, Quaresma, Fabio Rochemback, Riquelme, Alba
-- Deco often had some "wtf" moments

So, you see, all top players have all these skills:
1. technical skills
2. physical skills to some extent
3. tactical skills
4. and intelligence, in terms of choosing a right decision in a right moment. And those decisions make a difference between average teams and winners.

For example, Alexis is extremely gifted player, but he will just never "learn" some things.
He will always make 3 awesome actions in a row and score 3 golazos, but then, in the next 3 actions you will ask yourself: "Wtf has he tried to do in this action?"

Some people say that young Xavi was nothing special, but imo, I have always seen that he is "something special" and that he can make the difference one day because he was extremely smart even when he was aged 18.

I don't know how to explain it better, but some players are calm and smart enough to know in every action, for example:
-- this IS NOT a good moment to dribble, too many players are around me
-- or this IS a good moment to dribble, there is enough of space around me
-- or this IS NOT a good moment to try a deadly through ball
-- or this IS a good moment to risk and try something

-- ok, sometimes you have to risk and try something, but even when you watch the match on Tv or from the stands, you can also see that some actions are "better opportunities" to try something risky, and some actions are not that good opportunities.
Now, smart players like Ronaldinho, Messi, Xavi, usually know when it is a right moment to pass back, and when it is a moment to try to do something.

On the other hand, Adama for example, for him, he doesn't have this process:
1. should I dribble?
2. or should I pass the ball back and wait for a better opportunity?
That is my point. For him, and some other players, for them ALL actions are more or less the same.
They don't have "that skill" to "feel" when to slow down, and when to dribble and risk.

Young Adama is a perfect example for that. He will just dribble in every single action, no matter if there is 1 or 4 players infront of him.
And that is wrong.

(Or when Mascherano passes the ball to Pique in the 92nd minute, even though we lead only 1:0, and even though there are 6 opponent's players around Pique and Mascherano. And then media ask Mascherano why he was risking with passing in his box in the 92nd minute.
And he replies: "A coach told me that we shouldn't ever give away possession)
Lol.

This is example of bad decisions, and when a player doesn't understand in which situations he should and when he shouldn't do some things.

Alexis was equally dumb in those key decisions. When he should have taken a shot, he would pass the ball back, and when he should have tried to slow down and pass the ball back, he would do some illogical attempt of a dribble or similar.

So, ok, I agree, Adama and Halil have tons of technical potential.
But, please, take a look at their decision's making and whether they "realize" when to slow down, when to dribble, when to risk, when to shoot etc. (in the next matches)
Or they just do the same thing over and over regardless of how good/bad the situation around them is.

Now, for the end, take a look at young Xavi, aged 18, and how he always "knew" when it is the moment to slow down, and when it is the moment to risk with some risky pass and similar:

And yes, you can improve over time.
But if your decisions are just horrible naturally, like Alexis, Quaresma and similar guys, then all the talent in the world and even some learning in that area (decisions) will never be good enough.

 

[dakt]

BBZ8800 I don't understand why you bash little fella...mostly because you are trying to forecast his future which is just dumb. Comparisons with C.Ronaldo and Xavi

 

[BBZ8800]

BBZ8800 I don't understand why you bash little fella...mostly because you are trying to forecast his future which is just dumb. Comparisons with C.Ronaldo and Xavi

You can either see some patterns in their play and decisions. Or you can't.

Just like some players, who can see patterns in some actions and some others can't.

 

[Haremzg]

BBZ8800 you are compilacating it way too much, your analyses lead to nothing...

And Alen decision making is solid, not bad for sure. He used to dribble in every attack, but now he is more of a teamplayer. He needs to make better decision when to shoot or not, that was his decision making weak point in this season. He will improve that. He is inteligent. Modric always used his brain the most, but Alen has better dribbling and tehnique then Modric did at this age.

 

[linetty]

Way to put pressure on the kid - compare him to Xavi and Ronaldo

 

[DonAndres]

I agree with what BBZ800 is saying though. You can nitpick about the fact that he's using Xavi/Ronaldo/Messi as pillars of comparison but the point he's making is right.

You look at what Halilovic does on a game by game basis and you can see how limited of a player he is. He's going to receive the ball in a static position cut in to his left foot and dribble. Then it leads to a shot or an attempt at a pass. It's about as predictable as Antonio Valencia receiving the ball on the flank, pushing it about 3 yards ahead of himself, and then trying to cross.

Truly intelligent talents are 'complete' on some level even at young ages. Where is Halilovic making smart off the ball movements/runs in different zones to outnumber opponents and provide a passing outlet? Where's Halilovic making support runs to help create space for his teammates or contribute to a team play? Why is it that the only thing that he or Adama ever do is sit almost lazily/absently at their position until the ball comes at their feet and they can run at defenders before finally "passing"? Adama is even more guilty of these faults than Halilovic is but the former is actually phenomenal with his dribbling/physicality whereas Halilovic is only good at dribbling and poor at everything else.

A key difference between a prospect that turns world class and one that doesn't is the ability to master these 'Pedroisms' that allow them to fit into a system and contribute in every possible way or scenario. It shows tactical intelligence, chemistry with teammates, and footballing flexibility. It's the reason why a player like Deulofeu can so often be tamed at the top level because of his predictability and limited skillset while Jese was able to easily translate his abilities from Segunda->Primera and thoroughly excel at RM before his injury.

 

[DinhoR10]

I agree with what BBZ800 is saying though. You can nitpick about the fact that he's using Xavi/Ronaldo/Messi as pillars of comparison but the point he's making is right.

You look at what Halilovic does on a game by game basis and you can see how limited of a player he is. He's going to receive the ball in a static position cut in to his left foot and dribble. Then it leads to a shot or an attempt at a pass. It's about as predictable as Antonio Valencia receiving the ball on the flank, pushing it about 3 yards ahead of himself, and then trying to cross.

Truly intelligent talents are 'complete' on some level even at young ages. Where is Halilovic making smart off the ball movements/runs in different zones to outnumber opponents and provide a passing outlet? Where's Halilovic making support runs to help create space for his teammates or contribute to a team play? Why is it that the only thing that he or Adama ever do is sit almost lazily/absently at their position until the ball comes at their feet and they can run at defenders before finally "passing"? Adama is even more guilty of these faults than Halilovic is but the former is actually phenomenal with his dribbling/physicality whereas Halilovic is only good at dribbling and poor at everything else.

A key difference between a prospect that turns world class and one that doesn't is the ability to master these 'Pedroisms' that allow them to fit into a system and contribute in every possible way or scenario. It shows tactical intelligence, chemistry with teammates, and footballing flexibility. It's the reason why a player like Deulofeu can so often be tamed at the top level because of his predictability and limited skillset while Jese was able to easily translate his abilities from Segunda->Primera and thoroughly excel at RM before his injury.

To Adama's credit he also makes runs to receive through balls from midfielders like the one from rafinha that led to Matheiu's fk goal. Unlike Helilovic who has played for croatia at the senior level Adama has only had 4 games at the top level and he seems to be adapting even if slowly. Not everyone can be like Rafinha or Thiago and make the jump seemlessly some people need time.

 

[KingMessi]

Great goal today.

 

[linetty]

Great goal today.

Indeed. All goals he scored for Barca B (4, I think?) were from outside the box so far.

 

[raki]

He needs some muscle.

 

[JamDav1982]

I agree with what BBZ800 is saying though. You can nitpick about the fact that he's using Xavi/Ronaldo/Messi as pillars of comparison but the point he's making is right.

You look at what Halilovic does on a game by game basis and you can see how limited of a player he is. He's going to receive the ball in a static position cut in to his left foot and dribble. Then it leads to a shot or an attempt at a pass. It's about as predictable as Antonio Valencia receiving the ball on the flank, pushing it about 3 yards ahead of himself, and then trying to cross.

Truly intelligent talents are 'complete' on some level even at young ages. Where is Halilovic making smart off the ball movements/runs in different zones to outnumber opponents and provide a passing outlet? Where's Halilovic making support runs to help create space for his teammates or contribute to a team play? Why is it that the only thing that he or Adama ever do is sit almost lazily/absently at their position until the ball comes at their feet and they can run at defenders before finally "passing"? Adama is even more guilty of these faults than Halilovic is but the former is actually phenomenal with his dribbling/physicality whereas Halilovic is only good at dribbling and poor at everything else.

A key difference between a prospect that turns world class and one that doesn't is the ability to master these 'Pedroisms' that allow them to fit into a system and contribute in every possible way or scenario. It shows tactical intelligence, chemistry with teammates, and footballing flexibility. It's the reason why a player like Deulofeu can so often be tamed at the top level because of his predictability and limited skillset while Jese was able to easily translate his abilities from Segunda->Primera and thoroughly excel at RM before his injury.

Totally disagree with this.

Halilovic looks raw at times but he seems a clever player to me but loses the ball a bit more than should due to his lack of strength at moment.

Cant believe that some people are using Ronaldo as an example of an intelligent player at 18. At 18 Ronaldo was in the Man Utd team and Portugal team for his individual actions and he had the build to cope with it. At that point his decision making was really poor.

 

[DinhoR10]

Ronaldo at 30 still isnt that intelligent of a player, atleast not when comparing him to Messi or Iniesta