Antoine Griezmann
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Messigician
Senior Member
It's not that simple, who knows how we do with whoever replaced Griezmann in the squad, we might have done better or we might have dropped points, ask yourself this has he performed like a 125m player? No? Is he close? No? Then he flopped
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Players are judged on what they do on pitch and he has scored important goals along the way this season. If you want to start guessing how other players would do go for it.
He can still have a positive impact to point of not being 'a flop' it is not solely dependent on price.
Can argue not been worth what has paid to play him LW but it is not as simple as 'unless play to fee the player is a flop'.
One of few players that shows the work ethic that top teams have as well both offensively and defensively and that counts.
What do you expect from him in order not to be labelled a flop?
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MTL_Barca
Well-known member
Biggest issue with Griezmann was always that there simply isn't a good spot for him in a 4-3-3 especially with Messi on the team. I mean does anyone actually think he's ideal as a LW long term for the team? Not in the "best we have right now" way but actually wanting Griezmann there? As a #9? Move Messi to the middle so Griezmann can play RW? Or change the formation altogether to suit him more?
Having that discussion about a 120M player shows the problems with his transfer to Barca, more than half a season played and we still talk about the same things as last summer. He hasn't performed badly and can definitely play there but honestly he could be gone this summer and i wouldn't miss him much.
His work ethic is great for sure and that's nice, but then again that also just stands out so much because of how lazy some other players look. But no matter how much Griezmann runs he can't make up for them so that has to be addressed separately anyway.
Having that discussion about a 120M player shows the problems with his transfer to Barca, more than half a season played and we still talk about the same things as last summer. He hasn't performed badly and can definitely play there but honestly he could be gone this summer and i wouldn't miss him much.
His work ethic is great for sure and that's nice, but then again that also just stands out so much because of how lazy some other players look. But no matter how much Griezmann runs he can't make up for them so that has to be addressed separately anyway.
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BarçaBarça
New member
He was the best man in the team that won the WORLD CUP. Is that world class enough for you?
JamDav1982
Senior Member
He is World Class.
Has been in balon dor top three twice, player of tournaments at Euros, voted third best player at WC in winning team and has of other personal awards.
Wont ever perform to being world class for Barca in current system but he is a class player and could see it in spells when Messi was injured at beginning of season.
I still think Lautaro - Messi - Griezmann (with Messi hanging) could be worth a try (given we get Lautaro, dont care too much about transfers right now). Plus we would have Fati - Suarez (or Braithwaite) - Trincao (+Dembele?) as backups, so we can easily revert back to a normal setup. Theres not a lot of hope for Griezmann otherwise, he will be solid/decent, but on lw or cf he will never be a key player for us (as he should be).
Kind of funny how we already have 7 forwards for next season and no clear, reliable left winger. Plus 34 years old Suarez (in january). Chaotic squad planning.
Kind of funny how we already have 7 forwards for next season and no clear, reliable left winger. Plus 34 years old Suarez (in january). Chaotic squad planning.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
That is what Argentina do and it masks more of Messis lack of movement and pressing than under 433.
Team should more of less set up 4311 with a structure and let Messi go free with other forward players reacting to him.
Barca cant compete at top level with Messi in 433 it leaves team out of balance and weak defensively made worse by other old players around him.
EV with Paulinho was almost there but the pressure came to go back to 433 and it just doesnt work with Messi now.
I dont necessarily think Messis role destroyed our 433 (or has been responsible for Anfield/Roma). Our midfield has been subpar and our left wing has been shocking post Neymar. You dont win the CL with weaknesses like that - and both campaigns have been close.
If Suarez was two years younger I would be all for buying a good LW and ditching Griezmann, but hes not. So I hope we get Lautaro, and try 4312 to make Griezmann work (with decent wing options like Dembele, Fati, Trincao, Braithwaite...).
I get people who would rather see us buy a LW, but we actually have a decent talent coming up there and complain too much about neglecting La Masia anyway.
If Suarez was two years younger I would be all for buying a good LW and ditching Griezmann, but hes not. So I hope we get Lautaro, and try 4312 to make Griezmann work (with decent wing options like Dembele, Fati, Trincao, Braithwaite...).
I get people who would rather see us buy a LW, but we actually have a decent talent coming up there and complain too much about neglecting La Masia anyway.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
There are a number of things that are wrong but Messi being down as RW in 433 that drifts inside and is main playmaker makes is worse and even if had the top midfielder would still be off balance.
Barca have never not won a CL with Messi playing like he does now at any point.
serghei
Senior Member
Things he brings matter a lot in CL. Yea, overall he's not a great fit, but if he gives 100% and scores in CL away he can be an asset. We'd be in trouble right now without his goal vs Napoli away.
He's a world class player, with great mentality, great workrate, and stamina. Who can score big goals vs big teams.
To be fair the data set is pretty small, but yeah, old Messi nominally as RW has been a weakness. I dont disagree. The question is if we fixed our other issues (LW, midfield) would we have won the CL last season? Would have Frenkie instead of Rakitic won us the Liverpool tie? Or a fully fit Dembele? Or someone like Mane?
Generally Messi has been a major advantage for us, and he can realistically play only two positions now: false RW or as a hanging striker (not false 9) with two mobile, goalscoring forwards in front of him. Both have setbacks, but with the latter theres hope for Griezmann. And if it doesnt work out we have decent talent coming up for wide positions (I am repeating myself).
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