[mention=16942]bbz8800[/mention]
Arthur
- Thread starter Jair Ventura
- Start date
[mention=16942]bbz8800[/mention]
Aryagorn
Improvin' Perfection!!
BBZ8800
Senior Member
1. so: stats are too complex, yet you mention Arthur's goals and assists from this season, compared to Raki? In this case, stats aren't too complex and they are telling the whole truth? Lmao.
2. you mention mobility, which is awesome for a build up play, yet we are talking about defending.
User Phils said that Arthur is bad at defending, then 5 guys jumped at him claiming that he is talking shit.
I posted some stats, and now (as always), stats are bad when they don't support your favorite player.
3. for the end, remember a golden rule: when another user is posting something from the past, that is usually a horrible debating and a proof that you don't have too much to say in the current topic.
exactly.
[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION]
No-one watches football games and thinks, he's not intercepting the ball enough... that's just strange. So in reality what you've done is go on whoscored, found Arthur's worst stat (which is interceptions) and use that as your new reason to complain about Arthur.
Remember you were the one who said all he could do was play against high pressing teams like the Anfield game and we didn't need him against small teams in La Liga.
You said he needed to improve the attacking part of his game... he's currently tied 1st for attacking output with Griezmann, yet Arthur is a midfielder.
Arthur: 2 goals 3 assists
Griezmann: 3 goals 2 assists
Suarez: 4 goals 0 assists
This season defensively his tackle stats are better than your favourite Rakitic's last season's..
La Liga: 1.2 to 0.9
CL: 2.5 to 0.8
That's why you chose interceptions, cherry picking stats to suit your agenda.. but hats off to you. That's literally the only stat that you can complain about now and you found it. (I can only imagine the delight on your face when you found that stat and compared it to Rakitic's last season)
You also complained about his stamina, he now plays full 90 easily.
The desperation to be negative about Arthur is getting truly pathetic now, really clutching at straws. Just let it go man, it's unhealthy.. we understand you don't like him but this season he has been our best player so far and proven you wrong.
Here we go again, a pure gold:
1. this is cherrypicking at best. Picking only tackles, lol. I am proud, mate, you learned from the best.
And what is this obsession with tackles? Am I missing something?
Has it been the most important skill in defending since the invention of football or have you changed the goalposts now to suit Arthur?
2. another user saying: remember this or remember that what you said... explained above.
3. about the eye test, for 16 Months of Arthur here, my eye test was never convinced about his pure defending (outside of making pressure). That doesn't mean that he can't intercept a pass, make a tackle and similar.
Even Denis and Coutinho were winning some defensive duels.
The problem is that you guys are suffering from a Halo effect again.
If your favorite new toy is good at something (in this case: press resistance and build up play), for some reason you have the urge to translate those skills into all areas and you are turning Arthur into some GOAT playmaker in the attacking third (which he is not), a good midfielder (which he is) and an awesome defender (which is a huge unknown till now, with some stats and facts raising huge red flags and doubts).
4. you are mentioning his attacking input, lol, again. We played like 5 games. Dembele had a run of games last season when he was scoring and assisting in every match. Later it stopped, of course.
Do you think that Arthur will continue at this rate, that he will have 20 assists and 15 goals this season, lol?
Regarding Arthur's assists, he is not a retard. He is a professional footballer. Those guys can actually make passes and score goals.
The only problem is that some guys do that naturally and very often, yet others struggle.
Arthur is now trying to force his forward passes. Let's see how it will work on a larger sample.
And of course, how it will work against better opponents.
5. you are mentioning that I said that Arthur can't play against weak La Liga teams since he is not too offensive.
Lol, we just had the worst start in La Liga ever with Arthur-Frenkie as playmakers.
You guys will say: it was because of EV or not having Messi.
Fine, we will see on larger samples how a team led by Arthur as a creative force will end in La Liga and in a CL.
Regarding attacking and defensive output, just look at the last few games, even with Messi:
Dortmund: midfielders created 0 chances. We could have conceded 5-10 goals. So, zero creation and a horrible defending.
Inter: we couldn't create anything in the first half, and we could have conceded 5 goals. If this was a match at Anfield, we would have been 5:0 down by halftime, with Frenkie-Arthur in midfield.
Sevilla: the same story. They missed 3-4 chances and after that we started to score from every single shot. If that was a stronger team with better finishers, we would have been again 3:0 down in the first 20 minutes.
So, hold your horses about a magical Arthur as a creator and how a current midfield is miles better in defending than a midfield from last season, that is my whole point.
6. About Stamina, take a breathe. Hold your horses again.
He has played 5-6 matches in a row and in the last 2-3 matches his level has already dropped compared to the first 2-3 matches.
Time will tell:
1) whether he will be able to play 90 minutes for longer periods.
2) whether he will keep his high form for longer periods
3) or: his stamina will kick in after a few played matches and he will need to be rested often or subbed at around minute 60-70 to keep him fresh for upcoming matches
4) regarding form, the same: he had a good run of form in the last season and later disappeared. You guys claim that he lost his level due to injuries.
Fine, let's see what will happen in upcoming weeks/Months. Whether the same scenario from the last season will repeat.
Whether he will be a kind of a player who will be able to keep very high level consistently, or these few matches were his 120% motivation and a revolt because he was benched in the last season.
If this was just revolt due to a last season, that level will drop in upcoming weeks.
You guys are quite fast on positive conclusions after 5 matches:
1. Arthur has an insane stamina after 5 played matches
2. Arthur is a playmaking maestro in the attacking third after 5 matches of a season
3. he is a defending beast, even though we haven't play against teams like Liverpool, and in 50% of our current matches, we are leaking in defense more than ever in the last 3 years under EV
Funny.
This is not about Rakitic at all.
As said above, user Phils said that Arthur is weak in defending, or weaker than Busi, Vidal, Rakitic.
Then 5 guys jumped and started to make fun out of it.
So, it is not about Rakitic at all.
It is about a Halo effect where the mob here for some reasons need to create a perfect picture of current favorite players in their head, and they are painting all skills from fav players as perfect.
I love these alibies, keep em coming.
So, as I have said, you can make Tackles/interceptions in 2 ways:
1. when we are pressing in order to get the ball back immidiately after we lost it
2. or when the opponent has a normal attack and we are playing a defense in our box
I find it quite unlikely that a poor Arthur is always pressing so hard that his teammates are collecting the balls (and stats) after his press, and this is the reason why he doesn't have any interceptions.
Regarding his good tackling stats, I will post below, they are not even that good.
Anyway, these last few pages were about Arthur's defending.
My ONLY POINTS regarding his defending are:
1. we don't know enough about his defending yet
2. there are some red flags regarding his defending in you use an eye test from last few matches against Dortmund, Inter, Sevilla
3. if you check stats, he is quite bad in majority of defending areas EXCEPT TACKLING. Where he is average.
For a comparison, this season and the last season:
2019:
Tackles:
2,6 Busi
2,0 Vidal
1,9 Frenkie
1,2 Arthur
Interceptions:
1,2 Busi
1,0 Frenkie
0,4 Vidal
0,2 Arthur
Clearances:
0,8 Busi
0,5 Frenkie
0,4 Arthur
0,2 Vidal
2018/19:
Tackles:
2,5 Busi
2,4 Vidal
0,8 Rakitic
0,6 Arthur
Interceptions:
1,6 Rakitic
1,5 Busi
0,9 Vidal
0,3 Arthur
Clearances:
0,8 Rakitic
0,6 Busi
0,6 Vidal
0,3 Arthur
******************
******************
Total:
Successful defensive actions per match 2018/19:
4,6 Busi
3,9 Vidal
3,2 Rakitic
1,2 Arthur
Successful defensive actions per match 2019/20:
4,6 Busi
3,4 Frenkie
2,6 Vidal
1,8 Arthur
I have figured out now that these stats are per match (regardless if a player played 20 minutes of 90).
I will manually make stats for tackles and interceptions now, for players who played as CMs this season:
Minutes needed for 1 tackle:
14 Vidal (1 tackle each 13,9 minutes, lol)
28 Busi
42 Frenkie
59 Arthur
136 Roberto (counted matches only as a CM)
Minutes needed for 1 interception:
58 Roberto
64 Busi
69 Vidal
79 Frenkie
355 Arthur
So, again:
1. out of two main defensive skills (tackles and interceptions), our of 5 midfielders who played a lot:
Arthur is ranked 4th out of 5 in terms of tackles per minute.
And Arthur is the 5th out of 5 in terms of interceptions per minute. (He made 1 interception in 355 minutes in La Liga. While Frenkie had 8 interceptions, Busi 7, Roberto 7).
Now, seriously. When you guys remove your emotions and romantic affection towards Arthur, can someone explain in WHICH universe are these GOOD defensive numbers?
And why were you so offended when a user in the first place said that Arthur is weaker defensively than majority of other midfielders?
For the end, I am even scared to ask an objective question about Anfield or Rome (since heads will explode to some users), where our midfielders needed:
1. pressure and tackles after pressure=Arthur can do that
2. regular tackles=Arthur can do that
3. interceptions=Arthur can't do that
4. pace against counters=Arthur can't do that
5, defending against Roma's and Liverpool's wing play and crosses=Arthur can't do that. He is too slow to cover on wings and after that when Roma/Liverpool will hurl crosses, Arthur is weak in the air and he won't help too much
6. Long balls/Aerial duels against Roma/Liverpool=Arthur can't help here
7. corners against Roma and Liverpool, where we conceded KO goals for 3:0 and 4:0=Arthur can't help again
So, why don't you guys stick songs and attributes for Arthur's possession and build up play for now.
Time will tell whether he will need praises for his longterm creative game and defensive game.
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EdmondDantes
New member
If you read BBZ's posts as satire, they generally make for a great chuckle or two lol.
BBZ, you said when players you hate are playing well, you don't 'reply for obvious reasons' - Arthur has been nothing but a relentless masterclass machine, what are you doing here, mate?
BBZ, you said when players you hate are playing well, you don't 'reply for obvious reasons' - Arthur has been nothing but a relentless masterclass machine, what are you doing here, mate?
Total-Football
Senior Member
Possibly the best central midfielder in the world. It will take valverde some serious destructive skills to destroy the guy.
Vilarrubi
New member
[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION]
So I call YOU out for cherry picking stats, showing an example of how you missed out tackles and now i'm the one cherry picking? LOL
YOU compared him to Rakitic originally but now people are bringing up Rakitic you're saying "it's not about Rakitic at all".....
YOU used the sample size of this season and compared them to last but now you are telling people "You guys are quite fast on positive conclusions after 5 matches"
Btw no-one actually said Arthur is GOOD at defending, that's something you've just invented in your head now so you can argue from that point of view vs "the forum thinks Arthur is good at defending". All our midfielders are nothing special when it comes to defending except maybe Vidal. I merely pointed out that you conveniently left out tackles when comparing him with Rakitic and went with interceptions because it suits your agenda.
I'm guessing this will become a new obsession of yours, checking the interception stats every game as you can't have a go at him for goals, assists, attacking output/forward passes, stamina anymore.
I'm really starting to believe this Low IQ BBZ stuff now.
So I call YOU out for cherry picking stats, showing an example of how you missed out tackles and now i'm the one cherry picking? LOL
YOU compared him to Rakitic originally but now people are bringing up Rakitic you're saying "it's not about Rakitic at all".....
YOU used the sample size of this season and compared them to last but now you are telling people "You guys are quite fast on positive conclusions after 5 matches"
Btw no-one actually said Arthur is GOOD at defending, that's something you've just invented in your head now so you can argue from that point of view vs "the forum thinks Arthur is good at defending". All our midfielders are nothing special when it comes to defending except maybe Vidal. I merely pointed out that you conveniently left out tackles when comparing him with Rakitic and went with interceptions because it suits your agenda.
I'm guessing this will become a new obsession of yours, checking the interception stats every game as you can't have a go at him for goals, assists, attacking output/forward passes, stamina anymore.
I'm really starting to believe this Low IQ BBZ stuff now.
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EdmondDantes
New member
"4. pace against counters=Arthur can't do that"
False.
Check out last year's clasico at the Camp Nou (not the 5-1 one, but the one Modric kicked Arthur thrice), in the 90 odd minute, when Arthur set up Messi with a through ball around the box, the keeper grabbed it and launched a counter to their winger, I can't recall who, but Arthur sprinted across the pitch and tackled him out of possession for a throw.
Copa America quarter final (the one that went to pens), injury time (either late in the second half or during extra time), Arthur quickly sprinted all the way across the field to tackle Almiron, winning the ball back from a dangerous counter. Setting one of the highest speeds clocked at the Copa, 33 point something km/h. (xKonan posted the stat here at the time).
It's not a situation that happens all that frequently but he can deal with it no problem, as long as his groin issue isn't ongoing.
False.
Check out last year's clasico at the Camp Nou (not the 5-1 one, but the one Modric kicked Arthur thrice), in the 90 odd minute, when Arthur set up Messi with a through ball around the box, the keeper grabbed it and launched a counter to their winger, I can't recall who, but Arthur sprinted across the pitch and tackled him out of possession for a throw.
Copa America quarter final (the one that went to pens), injury time (either late in the second half or during extra time), Arthur quickly sprinted all the way across the field to tackle Almiron, winning the ball back from a dangerous counter. Setting one of the highest speeds clocked at the Copa, 33 point something km/h. (xKonan posted the stat here at the time).
It's not a situation that happens all that frequently but he can deal with it no problem, as long as his groin issue isn't ongoing.
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1. I mentioned those stats just to show how utterly ridiculous they are. You can have attacking output even without goals, keypasses and assists - see Iniesta as the gold standard. Arthur has plenty of great touches which advance play. Last season he had them further back, now in the attacking 3rd. The point is, if you can solve difficult situations in tight spaces further back theres a good chance that can translate well into more advanced positions like he is showing now. But last season the argument was, muh, no goals, no keypasses, no attacking instinct. If you just watched him you would have seen that the only meaningful metric is to actually watch him play.
2. Mobility is important for defending, especially for pressing. But even for classical defending of mobile wingers/midfielders - thats why fullbacks dont have the same build as centrebacks.
3. True. My bad. Still says a lot about your perception of talent.
Edit: To 1. What do you make of those goal/assist stats though? You didnt answer the question.
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[mention=16942]bbz8800[/mention]
Gnidrologist
Senior Member
Good satire is subtle and SUCCINCT so nope.
YodaMaster
Member
hahhahah remember last season when bbz would keep bringing up that arthur had 0 goals in every post? now he's moved on to "interceptions"
He’s a fucking moron, that’s who he is. Dude selects one fucking aspect of defensive transitions, actually the one which Arthur doesn’t have great numbers at, just to sell his shit propaganda.
Hey [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] you moron, Arthur may even have 0 interceptions since 2001, who gives a shit when the kid has nearly 10 ball recoveries per game (which is more than your beloved Rakitic who avoids duels) ?
Hey guys you know what ? Messi scored 91 goals in 2013 ok great, but he still might suck at scoring, we don’t know yet cause there were only 4 headers in those 91 goals. Meanwhile, Peter Crouch scored 7 headers that year ( and 9 goals overall), he’s a killer.
That’s BBZ reasoning for you guys.
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gregorrin10
Senior Member
Simple solution. Ban bbz already...said it over 6 months ago. He's so obviously a troll, you can't even develop serious and useful debate with him hogging all the attention with his stupidity.
Nope.
BBZ is not "hogging" attention. He is simply another user sharing his views like you or I would.
Not his fault if some impulsive, foaming at the mouth serial moaners throw a fit and completely meltdown every time he makes a post.
BBZ has this forum on strings.
If he asked you lot to jump, you would respond with "how high?"
Love to see it.
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