serghei
Senior Member
I just wanna say that some people on this forum, they know who they are, have a complete misrepresentation of what a talented player is. They think about 5-6 players in the last 10 years who have had an unreal and disproportional amount of talent, and somehow have concluded that that's what talent is about. False.
Most talented players, and by most I mean the vast majority of them, let's say 8 out of 10, as good of a guess as any, need proper guidance and proper 'mentorship' to deveop in the finished product. This translates to 'talented, but not quite as such a rare gem as to make it despite the conditions and the environment they find themselves in'. And you can include in this category the vast majority of talented players who made it and were somewhat of a surprise element. From this category you can exclude insane talents like R9, Ronaldinho, Messi, Zidane, Cristinao Ronaldo, Mbappe possibly, Neymar and some others. Mostly naturally gifted attacking players which suit all styles, and most managers will automatically use them well because they are so gifted any style suits them.
But this is not what talented means. Talent is also that kind of quality which can be unearthed by a proper mentor, and a proper manager. And users like BBZ (no offense man, I really think you're one of the best members here, and I apoligize to you for the occasions where I came off as arrogant or a jerk - you're kind of like me, just in the opposite side of football so to speak), completely fail to understand or value these players. For this type of fans, these are the players who are not valued enough. Want examples? Plenty of those. Busquets and Pedro are players whose talent was unearthed and developed by Guardiola. A lot of players for whom Klopp was the trigger factor, Salah, Arnold, Mane. Players who were not insane talents, but became and developed their hidden quality under these top tier mentors and leaders. This is the difference between a Klopp/Pep, and a Valverde. Even Conte. Someone please notice the huge increase in performances and influence of Lautaro Martinez, making the switch from a decent, even Valverde-like manager like Spaletti, to a high-quality motivator and inspirational figure like Conte. Realize this, and then understand the disproportionate influence a manager like Klopp has on every talented player working under him.
This subject is multi-faceted. It brings in many things into question. There are many situations where you think a player is talented and it turns up to be not so talented. Many situations where players completely surprise you, in that they have the gift, only you didn't notice them. Salah found a Klopp and became one of the best players in Europe. He could've stayed at Rome, never met Klopp, and this day he'd be struggling to show his quality in Europa League, Europe's second stage on late thursday nights where people recover after CL nights and don't pay as much attention to football. Those who think they have the solution and they're never wrong are clowns. Even mighty Pep completely judged players the wrong way, and he's no doubt a great football mind.
I do agree over-hyping young players is an issue, sure, but, for me, the biggest issue is not understanding that the player, 99% of the cases, doesn't make it alone. If we let managers clown their way for years, and look to sign only those players who make it no matter what, we're gonna find that we miss the mark with transfers a lot. Because those players are fucking rare. We're talking about the Messis, the Ronaldinhos, the Cristianos of world football. Guys, wake up and smell the coffee, those players don't float around and wait for Barca to pick them. They are tied to contracts, paid huge money. The solution is the one found by Liverpool. Get the guy who can build a great team with good players. The anti-Valverde manager. The brilliant fail-proof team filled with superstars who can't fail is an illusion. You can't built that team because every team needs at least a good manager to succeed at the highest level. It's been proven. Good teams with great managers tent to be more succesfull at the highest levels, than superstar filled teams with average managers at the helm.
In the last 3-4 years we've been caught believing the Galactico-vision hype. In that if you get the best attacking players, you can win big even with an average manager, whose biggest quality is that 'he keeps things quite'. This is not a winning plan. When you have a manager whose biggest quality is that he doesn't make a fuss, then the alarm bells are already whistling like crazy. Then that guy is not the guy who is gonna move the team forward. The great managers are leaders. They impose their vision and gather everyone around them. They lead not by fear. They lead because they have a project, and the leaders of the team realize they have to follow that, as they have an innate ability as elite sportsmen to know a leader when they see it.
I can bet you everything that the Liverpool players who met Klopp, or the Barca players who met Pep, or even the Madrid players who met Zidane, sensed in some way that this guy has what it takes to lead them towards greatness.
All I want is for us as a club to find that manager again. And I'm not speaking about fame. Pep in 2008 wasn't worldwide famous. Zidane wasn't worldwide famous. Mourinho prior Porto was a nobody. And he won back to back European titles, Uefa in 2003, Champions in 2004. Quality and fame are not always in sync.
What I'm saying is get that manager, and we'll see a whole new definition on what talent is. We'll see what Arthur and De Jong are capable of. They're not Messis. They can't do it on their own. So if you guys expect them to play under a nobody and a moron like Valverde and play like peak Xavi under the greatest manager of modern times, then you're, sorry to say, clueless as fuck.
Most talented players, and by most I mean the vast majority of them, let's say 8 out of 10, as good of a guess as any, need proper guidance and proper 'mentorship' to deveop in the finished product. This translates to 'talented, but not quite as such a rare gem as to make it despite the conditions and the environment they find themselves in'. And you can include in this category the vast majority of talented players who made it and were somewhat of a surprise element. From this category you can exclude insane talents like R9, Ronaldinho, Messi, Zidane, Cristinao Ronaldo, Mbappe possibly, Neymar and some others. Mostly naturally gifted attacking players which suit all styles, and most managers will automatically use them well because they are so gifted any style suits them.
But this is not what talented means. Talent is also that kind of quality which can be unearthed by a proper mentor, and a proper manager. And users like BBZ (no offense man, I really think you're one of the best members here, and I apoligize to you for the occasions where I came off as arrogant or a jerk - you're kind of like me, just in the opposite side of football so to speak), completely fail to understand or value these players. For this type of fans, these are the players who are not valued enough. Want examples? Plenty of those. Busquets and Pedro are players whose talent was unearthed and developed by Guardiola. A lot of players for whom Klopp was the trigger factor, Salah, Arnold, Mane. Players who were not insane talents, but became and developed their hidden quality under these top tier mentors and leaders. This is the difference between a Klopp/Pep, and a Valverde. Even Conte. Someone please notice the huge increase in performances and influence of Lautaro Martinez, making the switch from a decent, even Valverde-like manager like Spaletti, to a high-quality motivator and inspirational figure like Conte. Realize this, and then understand the disproportionate influence a manager like Klopp has on every talented player working under him.
This subject is multi-faceted. It brings in many things into question. There are many situations where you think a player is talented and it turns up to be not so talented. Many situations where players completely surprise you, in that they have the gift, only you didn't notice them. Salah found a Klopp and became one of the best players in Europe. He could've stayed at Rome, never met Klopp, and this day he'd be struggling to show his quality in Europa League, Europe's second stage on late thursday nights where people recover after CL nights and don't pay as much attention to football. Those who think they have the solution and they're never wrong are clowns. Even mighty Pep completely judged players the wrong way, and he's no doubt a great football mind.
I do agree over-hyping young players is an issue, sure, but, for me, the biggest issue is not understanding that the player, 99% of the cases, doesn't make it alone. If we let managers clown their way for years, and look to sign only those players who make it no matter what, we're gonna find that we miss the mark with transfers a lot. Because those players are fucking rare. We're talking about the Messis, the Ronaldinhos, the Cristianos of world football. Guys, wake up and smell the coffee, those players don't float around and wait for Barca to pick them. They are tied to contracts, paid huge money. The solution is the one found by Liverpool. Get the guy who can build a great team with good players. The anti-Valverde manager. The brilliant fail-proof team filled with superstars who can't fail is an illusion. You can't built that team because every team needs at least a good manager to succeed at the highest level. It's been proven. Good teams with great managers tent to be more succesfull at the highest levels, than superstar filled teams with average managers at the helm.
In the last 3-4 years we've been caught believing the Galactico-vision hype. In that if you get the best attacking players, you can win big even with an average manager, whose biggest quality is that 'he keeps things quite'. This is not a winning plan. When you have a manager whose biggest quality is that he doesn't make a fuss, then the alarm bells are already whistling like crazy. Then that guy is not the guy who is gonna move the team forward. The great managers are leaders. They impose their vision and gather everyone around them. They lead not by fear. They lead because they have a project, and the leaders of the team realize they have to follow that, as they have an innate ability as elite sportsmen to know a leader when they see it.
I can bet you everything that the Liverpool players who met Klopp, or the Barca players who met Pep, or even the Madrid players who met Zidane, sensed in some way that this guy has what it takes to lead them towards greatness.
All I want is for us as a club to find that manager again. And I'm not speaking about fame. Pep in 2008 wasn't worldwide famous. Zidane wasn't worldwide famous. Mourinho prior Porto was a nobody. And he won back to back European titles, Uefa in 2003, Champions in 2004. Quality and fame are not always in sync.
What I'm saying is get that manager, and we'll see a whole new definition on what talent is. We'll see what Arthur and De Jong are capable of. They're not Messis. They can't do it on their own. So if you guys expect them to play under a nobody and a moron like Valverde and play like peak Xavi under the greatest manager of modern times, then you're, sorry to say, clueless as fuck.
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Arthur wrecks his career with some hookers - if this is true we witness some millionairs tragedy in its cheapest flavour.
