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DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
I'm happy with how much commitment and the work Lucho puts in the job, but he seriously has to stop with these short-term signings. While he should maximize the success short-term, both for the team and his own tenure, he can't leave us reeling in 3 years time with all the oldies he want to sign.
A recipe for disaster when the club can't replace these guys because Espai Barca is eating up the entire budget.
A recipe for disaster when the club can't replace these guys because Espai Barca is eating up the entire budget.
xXKonan
Senior Member
About a week ago we were linked to Miranda as a CB option for next season....
Our main weaknesses in regards to our squad in regards to age has to be our back line. Our Right back situation isn't all to bad but our LB and CB situation isn't really Ideal at all. Next Season Mascherano and Mathieu will be 32 and 33 retrospectively while they have been great for us they won't be around forever. Our LB problems it's the same thing, our Best LB is fragile you could say and our 2nd and 3rd Choice LBs are old and Injury prone.
I've been wishing for ages we could find a good LB back up for Alba, I like that we are following young guys like Adrian Marín for the LB spot and instead of aging ones. and as for the Forward one I like the idea of adding Denis and as for a Number 9 I would rather us either buy a young prospect or stick with Munir.
Our main weaknesses in regards to our squad in regards to age has to be our back line. Our Right back situation isn't all to bad but our LB and CB situation isn't really Ideal at all. Next Season Mascherano and Mathieu will be 32 and 33 retrospectively while they have been great for us they won't be around forever. Our LB problems it's the same thing, our Best LB is fragile you could say and our 2nd and 3rd Choice LBs are old and Injury prone.
I've been wishing for ages we could find a good LB back up for Alba, I like that we are following young guys like Adrian Marín for the LB spot and instead of aging ones. and as for the Forward one I like the idea of adding Denis and as for a Number 9 I would rather us either buy a young prospect or stick with Munir.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
I don't disagree with you ,but I am not sure it is really Lucho problem .
He has put a lot of trust in S.Roberto (even last season) ,Rafinha(since Celta days) ,Munir,Sandro and to lesser extent Bartra,Samper&Gumbau . He also wanted D.Suarez back last summer but FIFA didn't want to approve it.
He had simply given good chances to many young players and trusted most of them .We just didn't have any Special talents from La Masia coming .all the players he didn't gave a chance proved him right so far.
As for aging signing?
Lucho signings were
Bravo(31) ,MATS(22),Mathieu(almost 31) ,Vermaelen(almost 29) ,Suarez(27),Rakitic(26),Douglas(25),Vidal(26) ,Arda(28 or 29 if you count it after the ban)
9 players .1 young player .4 players in the middle of their career (24-28) or 5 if you count Arda . and 4 (or 3) players who were 29 or older
Thing is in those 4 old players .Mathieu & Vermaelen weren't his ideal choices .he wanted Marquinhos or Benatia or both . we had to settle for the older options b/c they were cheaper .
Bravo wasn't really old for a GK .at 31 he is a GK who would easily give you 5-8 more years . he is more of a GK in middle of his career .
Arda was the only weird choice .but most coaches don't consider players at the later parts of their twenties as "old" players but more of a players in their prime .Arda at 28 wasn't really old .
We can talk about rumors all we want ,rumors we wanted Nolito who is old,rumors that we wanted Pogba who was young and so on . but the transfer signings remain the facts .
Again .through this signings I don't think Lucho is trying to build an older team ,in contrary he is trying to use the young players as much as he can without affectng the team negatively
But there are simply no "stand out" talents out there .and young proven players right now cost the most .We can't go for the Martial/Pogba/Laporte/Marquinhos anymore .
I think some of those signings are simply trying to postpone paying so much for a solution until we can find a standout player that is worth it .if we go for for an old CB or attacker it is probably because we think no one from the younger player is worth the huge money asked for him .
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Of course coaches and managments think of 29 year old signings as old. There is a reason it is very rare for top clubs to do it. Arda is the 3rd most expensive 29+ year old in the world if I remember correctly. And Mathieu is the most expensive 31 year old CB ever. And Valencia replaced him with 22 year old Mustafi for 8m euros.....
Top clubs buy the best players in the smaller leagues who are under 25. Thats shrewd business. Just look at what we used to do. We bought players like Yaya and Marquez from Ligue 1. Great players, great price, 24 year olds. But after those successes we decided to not buy a single player from the French league in almost 10 years and decided to let other clubs buy from France.
There are lots of options. If we want CBs, what about Mammana from River Plate or Umtiti from Lyon? Or Ricardo Pereira from Nice or Jorge from Flamengo as LB targets?
If we want midfielders or forwards, what about Jorginho from Napoli and Thomas Lemar from Monaco? Ousmane Dembele from Rennes?
All of these players are top players in their respective leagues, all under 25. If there is one time we can afford to buy such players, it must be this summer.
If we have such terrible scouting that we simply have no imagination left, we deserve what we get.
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BarçaBarça
New member
I agree - no-one forced us to buy Vermaelen, that was a choice and a very bad choice indeed. Yes, young players cost more than they used to, but if we take more risk and buy a couple who is not fully proven (where La Masia falls short) it would be much less a risk than spending decent amounts of money on injury-prone players. Buying Mathieu wasn't a mistake, but getting Vermaelen and keeping Bartra instead of taking risks with 1-2 young prospects was a disaster, and now we have to make someone the 2nd or 3rd most expensive defender because of ridiculous planing since Puyols decline.
Or think about it: at some point clubs would pay 10+M for Adriano - again, really bad foresight.
Messi983
Senior Member
Again this "we are only buying old players" debate.
And who should we replace that much? Think about this Barça in say 2019/20.
MAtS (26)
Vidal (29)-Pique (32)-whichever CB we buy this summer-Alba (30)/maybe Marin (22)
Roberto (27)-Busquets (31)-Rafinha (26)
Messi (32)* -Munir (23)**-Neymar (27)
*He could also drop more into midfield and get his place on the wing for a player like Halilovic or Suarez.
** Let him go on loan for two seasons to get regular playing time then return him.
Of course we'll bring in some other players in the meantime but I'd be also totaly comfortable with that lineup. It's also again La Masia heavy lineup which is likely to happen if Xavi is a coach (which I expect to happen).
We should only get a replacement for Pique and we'd have 3-4 years to do that. But with his playing style I think he could also perform on WC level until he's 34-35 if he stays motivated and won't have injury problems in later stage of his career.
We won't get direct replacements for Messi or Busquets on the market because they are both unique players, but I think Halilovic/D.Suarez and Samper could play RW and DM positions good enough. Of course before that they should get some La Liga experience so we should loan them out (for another season in Halilovic's case). And we could possibly also have players like Kaptoum, Alena, Tarin, Lee and others coming off the bench. In the meantime also "new" young players could emerge, either coming through La Masia or if we bring them to the club in a similar way we did with Alen and Denis. And I'd also like to concentrate more on spanish talents. I could probably get a list of at least one or two young players from all smaller clubs in La Liga I hope we keep an eye on.
Where did you get this from? I'd be dissapointed if we buy another 30+ yo CB. That's the only position in our team I really think we should get younger and club plans to do so.
On the other hand, as I already mentioned few times I wouldn't be against buying experienced forward to sit behind MSN and get the most out of his opportunities when he gets one. I don't consider players old and young but good and not good enough and I think Gameiro is good enough to be our 4th attacker if we can get him for around 20M€.
I also prefer continuing bringing in players like Denis Suarez and Alen Halilovic for lower transfer fees (and consequently they can play with less pressure on their shoulders) and let them develop in Barça B or smaller La Liga clubs for a few seasons than pay 50M+ for also unproven youngsters like Martial or Dembele who would be right away put into position where they'd need to be successful or they would be considered bust by media/fans because of huge investment in them. As mentioned above for all we know our forward line in around 4 years could be Neymar (if he doesn't go Ronaldinho route)-Munir-Halilovic with Messi droping more in midfield. So I don't really think it's a MUST for us to buy young forward right now. Of course if there is a good opportunity on the market we should use that but I don't think we should be desperate enough to just throw a lot of money on unproven youngsters and then let them root on the bench for the next 2-3 years. Because no matter how you turn things around that's what most of them will do until MSN are still at their best.
10 years ago there was not an oil-rich PSG in France. We buy Ronaldinho for around 25M€ then, there is no way we could get a similar player (based on his age and projection) like Lucas Moura (not that we need him) now for even twice that price. Things have changed. PSG can buy all good players around Ligue 1 and they can pay them more that we're willing to do. And even they were not ready to overspend on a player like Martial.
Vermalen was a bad buy mostly because he was from Arsenal and I hate them.
Other than that, I think so far we "only" pay 10M for him, as most of the clauses were not met becuase he was injured for all of last season.
No need to do that when we can get Bailly for around 15-20M. There is not a lot of talk about him in the media but I hope he's on our radar. I would be more than happy with him and if neccessary he could maybe also cover both FB positions.
And who should we replace that much? Think about this Barça in say 2019/20.
MAtS (26)
Vidal (29)-Pique (32)-whichever CB we buy this summer-Alba (30)/maybe Marin (22)
Roberto (27)-Busquets (31)-Rafinha (26)
Messi (32)* -Munir (23)**-Neymar (27)
*He could also drop more into midfield and get his place on the wing for a player like Halilovic or Suarez.
** Let him go on loan for two seasons to get regular playing time then return him.
Of course we'll bring in some other players in the meantime but I'd be also totaly comfortable with that lineup. It's also again La Masia heavy lineup which is likely to happen if Xavi is a coach (which I expect to happen).
We should only get a replacement for Pique and we'd have 3-4 years to do that. But with his playing style I think he could also perform on WC level until he's 34-35 if he stays motivated and won't have injury problems in later stage of his career.
We won't get direct replacements for Messi or Busquets on the market because they are both unique players, but I think Halilovic/D.Suarez and Samper could play RW and DM positions good enough. Of course before that they should get some La Liga experience so we should loan them out (for another season in Halilovic's case). And we could possibly also have players like Kaptoum, Alena, Tarin, Lee and others coming off the bench. In the meantime also "new" young players could emerge, either coming through La Masia or if we bring them to the club in a similar way we did with Alen and Denis. And I'd also like to concentrate more on spanish talents. I could probably get a list of at least one or two young players from all smaller clubs in La Liga I hope we keep an eye on.
Where did you get this from? I'd be dissapointed if we buy another 30+ yo CB. That's the only position in our team I really think we should get younger and club plans to do so.
On the other hand, as I already mentioned few times I wouldn't be against buying experienced forward to sit behind MSN and get the most out of his opportunities when he gets one. I don't consider players old and young but good and not good enough and I think Gameiro is good enough to be our 4th attacker if we can get him for around 20M€.
I also prefer continuing bringing in players like Denis Suarez and Alen Halilovic for lower transfer fees (and consequently they can play with less pressure on their shoulders) and let them develop in Barça B or smaller La Liga clubs for a few seasons than pay 50M+ for also unproven youngsters like Martial or Dembele who would be right away put into position where they'd need to be successful or they would be considered bust by media/fans because of huge investment in them. As mentioned above for all we know our forward line in around 4 years could be Neymar (if he doesn't go Ronaldinho route)-Munir-Halilovic with Messi droping more in midfield. So I don't really think it's a MUST for us to buy young forward right now. Of course if there is a good opportunity on the market we should use that but I don't think we should be desperate enough to just throw a lot of money on unproven youngsters and then let them root on the bench for the next 2-3 years. Because no matter how you turn things around that's what most of them will do until MSN are still at their best.
10 years ago there was not an oil-rich PSG in France. We buy Ronaldinho for around 25M€ then, there is no way we could get a similar player (based on his age and projection) like Lucas Moura (not that we need him) now for even twice that price. Things have changed. PSG can buy all good players around Ligue 1 and they can pay them more that we're willing to do. And even they were not ready to overspend on a player like Martial.
Vermalen was a bad buy mostly because he was from Arsenal and I hate them.
Other than that, I think so far we "only" pay 10M for him, as most of the clauses were not met becuase he was injured for all of last season. No need to do that when we can get Bailly for around 15-20M. There is not a lot of talk about him in the media but I hope he's on our radar. I would be more than happy with him and if neccessary he could maybe also cover both FB positions.
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The reason we need a centre back is we signed two short term fixes in Mathieu and Vermalen and for the same combined money we could have got a Laporte or Marquinhos for. Why sign another short term fix? We can't keep putting off the problem and you end up spending more in the long run putting a plaster over it.
We're so haphazard and complacent in the transfer market, which we could get away with when producing a Messi, Iniesta or Busquets every year from the youth team (and while those players are still in the team) but now La Masia isn't producing we need to be buying younger players rather than more late 20s, early 30s players.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Arda was never rated as 29+signings as he was 28 when he was signed and still 28 when he was registered btw. You haven't remembered correctly.
And Yes Mathieu was he most expensive 30+ years old player .Yet your point here is mute .top clubs bring players 29+ all the time .Our ability to negotiate the price is something else
The most expensive 20 players in the history of the game 17 of those deals were for players between the age of 24 to the age of 29.only 3 from those 17 were under 25 btw
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khaled_a_d
Senior Member
We are used to be linked around 80-120 players annually since the start of the Laporta era (I did the count for many years btw ,not throwing a random number) so I am not sure why people keep taking such a rumor seriously
Half of our deals ended up players we didn't expect b4 May .same time last year no on expected Arda or Vidal to be signed .same time in 2014 Rakitic was supposed to be in his way to RM and we weren't interested in Suarez,Bravo or any of our signings except MATS .
I am not sure why would anyone would be worried about this Miranda random rumor right now ?we have been linked with Mustafi/Laporte/Stones/Marquinhos all year and all are young ,rumors are just rumors
Your tireless defense of every decision any Barca management does is well known but this one really is something else. We bought Marquez, Ronaldinho, Yaya, and Abidal from the French league. Then we stopped. It is literally absurd to portray our deals in the French league as not important or bad for our results and a good thing that we stopped buying from the league. And its not like we buy players younger than 25 from La Liga either! The only La Liga player younger than 25 we have bought in the last 8 years is Jordi Alba 4 years ago!
The point is that we have such aversion for players 25 or younger who are great in their respective leagues, full stop, no matter if its La Liga, French league, Argentina or other leagues. The examples I gave of past transfers from the French league and current potential options was just to illustrate that we ignore the French league and other leagues at our peril. There are lots of good players out there who dominate in other leagues and are 25 or younger.
But sure, lets continue chasing those 29 year olds with no sell-on value or trying to sign a young player only once a rich club has already bought him. We always used to buy players 25 years and younger in the past.
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JamDav1982
Senior Member
Barcelona buy less young players as they want to give us much time to developing la masia or b team players.
Barca in recent years have brought in the likes of Ter Stegen, Vidal, Alba, Rakitic, Roberto, Rafinha, D Suarez, Neymar, Munir into the first team fold. Even other players that didnt work like Cesc, Song were below 25.
Need to stop repeating this lie about Arda being third most expensive for his age as it is not true and doesnt take into account the boom in transfer fees to even make it a fair historical comparison.
Barca in recent years have brought in the likes of Ter Stegen, Vidal, Alba, Rakitic, Roberto, Rafinha, D Suarez, Neymar, Munir into the first team fold. Even other players that didnt work like Cesc, Song were below 25.
Need to stop repeating this lie about Arda being third most expensive for his age as it is not true and doesnt take into account the boom in transfer fees to even make it a fair historical comparison.
xXKonan
Senior Member
Not sure if theirs any weight to this Rumor.
But according to ESPN Italia we are still following Marcos Alonso as a LB option for the Summer window.
SPORT's write up.
http://www.sport-english.com/en/not...uing-follow-fiorentinas-marcos-alonso-5014717
But according to ESPN Italia we are still following Marcos Alonso as a LB option for the Summer window.
SPORT's write up.
http://www.sport-english.com/en/not...uing-follow-fiorentinas-marcos-alonso-5014717
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