Basketball/NBA

[Leo_Messi]

Harden not a MVP candidate. What a fucking joke.

44 points, 15 assists, 10 rebounds and a decisive insane 3-point shot that decided the game (should have been a 4 point play as well) at the Oracle Arena, yet another triple-double, 9+ games in a row with at least 35 points, 10 team wins in a row (most of them without the injured Chris Paul) etc. Insane stuff.

The referees were pathetic as often is the case at the Oracle Arena. They did everything to make the Warriors win. Even when Durant stepped out of bounds with both feet of his feet (it could not have been more clear ffs!) with the assistant referee right next to him (LOL) and Curry scoring on the subsequent play, did that insane referee help not prevent a thoroughly deserved Houston win. Would be great to see the Warriors not win it this year. Tired of them and all the help they get from the officials time and time again. They would not have won last year had Chris Paul not been injured in game 5. Loved how Harden called Draymond a bitch right after being fouled (of course the pathetic referees did not call the obvious foul) on that decisive 3-point shot.

Won a fortune betting on Harden as well in the past few weeks and I only look at betting as occasional pasttime fun.

EDIT: Harden also passed Oscar Robertson's record of at least 35 points and at least 5 assists in 7 games in a row 2 games ago.

 

[Sultan]

If the Warriors are as smart as everyone thinks they are they better trade Draymond ASAP!
There is no freaking way he deserves a max contract. Even warriors fans have had enough of this clown.

 

[khaled_a_d]

If the Warriors are as smart as everyone thinks they are they better trade Draymond ASAP!
There is no freaking way he deserves a max contract. Even warriors fans have had enough of this clown.

They aren't going to offer him max and he probably knows that.
With that being said, I don't think they will get a good deal for him either. Dray is the ultimate glue guy, and not many teams are in desperate need for that atm

 

[Hardy]

I don't disagree much. Just have in mind that Harden is not the finished article yet (IMO) and that he has many years to prove himself further. Lebron James also used to underachieve in the playoffs. Much of this has to do with the team you play for. Harden never played for a dynasty like Lebron, Durant and Kobe have done. Change Harden for Durant and the Warriors would be pretty much the same team. In other words, I highly doubt that they would not have won 3 of the last 4 rings.

Lebron underachieve in the playoff? We are talking about performance, the worst post season played by Lebron still far better than anything showed by Harden in his career. If Lebron played with the same Rockets team last year i really doubt he would lose to Warriors.

I don't say any rubbish. People who watched Jordan say the same thing. That the Bulls never faced a team as good as the Warriors which is not nonsense at all. Or even a dynasty. Unlike you, I am not a fanboy of any player. I am a Lakers fan. Could not care less about who is the GOAT or not. There will always be different opinions.

That is your unproven claim. I doubt that teams of the old are better than today's teams. Not the case in any sport. I doubt that NBA is any different here. It's the same bullshit that fanboys of Maradona bark about. That football was twice as hard 30-20 years ago and that today's footballers are "sissies". Meanwhile today's NBA athletes are better athletes on average than what NBA players were 20-30 years ago. That is without a doubt.

You claimed that you started to watch Nba only from Kobe's generation and from this post i totally understand it, you basically don't know what are you talking....

Jordan maybe never faced a dinasty like Warriors in all his Nba finals, but for sure he had by country mile toughest competition in most of his playoff runs, only an ignorant could seriously compare teams like Bad Boys Pistons (2 titles in a row ending the legendary Lakers/Celtics dynasties), Riley's Heat, Ewing's Knicks or Penny and Shaq in one of the most stacked eastern conference ever (teams with tons of hall of famers) with the scrubs, youngsters or team without a single top 10 in the league faced by Lebron in the last years, teams with a barely 50 wins record (maybe it's better for you i don't say how many 55-60wins teams MJ faced in his playoff career compared to Lebron...)

P.S. Meanwhile Harden gets the line 20 times per game with a barely contact and flop, and Jordan played in an less spacing era with hand checking, no defensive 3 secs, dominant 7 footers closing the paint where this was allowed.

 

[Blaugrana Bull]

What people forget is that MJ did not face teams or dynasties that were even remotely as good as the current Warriors or the Warriors teams of the past few years. None of the teams that the Bulls defeated in the finals were really good teams. I also feel that people are forgetting Kareem Abdul-Jabbar here. He has a legitimate claim here when the GOAT is discussed.

The Bulls were that dynasty. If you would put together and all time NBA time team out of players that have never won a championship it would be only 90s players + Elgin Baylor.
Stockton, Baylor, Barkley, Malone, Ewing would be my 5 probably. You could name Nique, Reggie and Iverson too who also collided with MJ for a while.

And to say the Bulls never defeated really good teams is ridiculous. To build their dynasty they had to battle the Celtics and Bad Boy Pistons for years which they surpassed at the end. They ended Magic's reign and dominated the East afterwards which was ridiculously good back then.
They defeated Clyde's Blazers, Barkley's Suns, Payton's Sonics, Stockalone's Jazz and on their route to those teams like Ewing's Knicks, Shaq's and Penny's Magic, Reggie's Pacers etc. etc.
The only team they avoided was the Rockets with Hakeem in his prime who always gave them trouble during the regular season. That would have been a good match up and it would have been interesting to see how these teams would have matched up but unfortunately MJ took a two year break.

 

[Blaugrana Bull]

And in Basketball you can argue that previous generations could compete today. It is different from Football because the rules changes so much.
Of course the game evolved too with zone defense and team's abilities to spread the floor no matter if they play small or big but in the last decade they took the aspect of hard defense out of the game. You have to consider that when comparing.
Harden e.g. In the 90s he would have still been an incredibly skillful player but every good wing defender would be in his face the whole time and be able to touch him. His handling and step backs would not be as effective and he would be forced to go to the paint more often. There he would not get a free throw but get hurt every game.

 

[Mitchell1978]

None of the teams that the Bulls defeated in the finals were really good teams.

that is just bullshit, maybe the Warriorsdynasty is better but Jordan faced some really great teams, Seatle which won 64 games, Utah twice, the Suns with Barkley and so on, all great teams.

Comparing between era's is also very difficult as the NBA is very different now, with a lot more spacing, 3point shooting, less defence certainly in the RS, prime Jordan would average between 35 and 40 in the current NBA probably.

 

[Leo_Messi]

What happened here? An entire horde of 30+ MJ fanboys (no offense) woke up. Relax, it's all banter and different views. Yes, saying "really good teams" was nonsense. I admit that. I should have used really great and that is also what I wrote in the other post. My point was merely that MJ never faced a team as good as the Warriors. Maybe even the Spurs team that LBJ faced could be claimed as being equal to some of the best teams that MJ faced in his finals appearances.

I openly wrote that I did not watch MJ when he was the king back in the 1990's as I am too young for that (millennial and all that). However that has not prevented me from reading about that era extensively, prevented me from watching games and Youtube clips and watch so-called experts and players of that era had to say about it. I mean, I don't need to have watched Pelé in action to conclude that most of his opponents in Brazil were far inferior to the opponents that Messi has been facing for 14+ years.

However I don't buy, at all, the theory that NBA players were more skilled and better athletes 20-30 years ago. Or that the current era where almost every franchise has extremely talented players was worse. Yes, comparing rules across eras is pointless. Some things are harder today while others are easier compared to what they once were and vice versa.

Lastly I never argued that MJ is not the GOAT.

I think that talent and accomplishments, even though they often go hand in hand, should be separated more at times. Accomplishment wise Bill Russell is the GOAT. Statistically and in terms of sheer dominance it is Chamberlain. In terms of killer instinct, goalscoring ability, leadership and accomplishments (rings) in the modern era it is MJ. In terms of being the most complete player (mastering most traits at an insanely high level) it is Lebron James, hands down. That's how I see it at least and I assume most would agree.

I later added Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

All I am a bit tired of is how defensive people get when somebody questions MJ. I mean statistically speaking and in terms of talent (mastering various elements of the game at an insanely high level), it COULD be argued that Lebron is the GOAT. I mean you have plenty of people from MJ's era who claim the same. Maybe they are insane, I don't know. At the end of the day it's all opinions.

 

[Gnidrologist]

I caught only end on MJs career, but my impression was that him and Bulls had lot more challenging foes than anything i've seen today. Probably because of the rules in that era that allowed bball to be really physical contact sport. When i watch today's game it looks like exhibition match most of the time. The amount of space and coddling offensive players get is ridiculous and i don't think it's for the good of sport. Rodman would be banned immediately from playing in the league for his style alone. MJ wouldn't even need to develop his famous fade away jumper, because there would be no need for it. Teams like Utah Jazz with Maleman, Stockton and Hornacek or Supersonics with Payton, Kemp, Schrempf, Shaques, Knicks with Ewing, Okaey, Starks, Penny's Magic and many more seemed all really tough, while today there's only a handful of teams with great players. Warriors may be better shooting team, but i don't think they could do as good without the coddling they receive. No wonder everyone is practicing 3pointers now days, even big guys. Guards can't touch you and if you lean on them while shooting they get called lmao. It's like the 3point contest in all star weekend.

 

[Leo_Messi]

Lakers. Losing against THIS Knicks at the Staples Center, even without Lebron, Kuzma and Rondo, is a disgrace. Ever since Lebron's injury the record has been 1-4.

Brandon Ingram and Lonzo Ball inconsistent (as expected) and frustrating despite showing bright moments occasionally.

Disappointing stuff overall.

 

[FCBfan22]

Watching 76ers - Dallas tonight.

Dončić has a pretty bad game so far. But Dennis Smith Jr. is just pathetic. Really. I hope they trade him.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Watching 76ers - Dallas tonight.

Dončić has a pretty bad game so far. But Dennis Smith Jr. is just pathetic. Really. I hope they trade him.

We suck at the road
DSJ won't get us a young player unless traded in the draft night. I would prefer to keep him than trading him for a veteran

 

[FCBfan22]

We suck at the road
DSJ won't get us a young player unless traded in the draft night. I would prefer to keep him than trading him for a veteran

I mean, what is the point of DSJ, when he is soloing non-stop, doesn't utilize his teammates and tries to do all by himself. At least Dončić is trying to play pick-n-roll with Jordan...

That said, I envy 76ers for Joel Embiid. Incredibly versatile center.

 

[khaled_a_d]

I mean, what is the point of DSJ, when he is soloing non-stop, doesn't utilize his teammates and tries to do all by himself. At least Dončić is trying to play pick-n-roll with Jordan...

That said, I envy 76ers for Joel Embiid. Incredibly versatile center.

Doncic need another ball handler, that will be either DSJ or Brunson at least for next couple of years.
DSJ is athletic, quick and can attack the basket, he has been trying to adapt a lot to Luka and they have been less than a year together.
tbh it is a dilemma, DSJ has the potential to be a T.Parker type of PG for Luka but he could also turn into a 6th man or below average starting PG. So it is a question whether to be patient or to cash on him while he has the value of being "young"
But then again, I just don't want another 28+ player for DSJ, Rick is the kind of veteran coach and same for Donnie -as a GM- so I will be very cautious if they dealt him

 

[FCBfan22]

Doncic need another ball handler, that will be either DSJ or Brunson at least for next couple of years.
DSJ is athletic, quick and can attack the basket, he has been trying to adapt a lot to Luka and they have been less than a year together.
tbh it is a dilemma, DSJ has the potential to be a T.Parker type of PG for Luka but he could also turn into a 6th man or below average starting PG. So it is a question whether to be patient or to cash on him while he has the value of being "young"
But then again, I just don't want another 28+ player for DSJ, Rick is the kind of veteran coach and same for Donnie -as a GM- so I will be very cautious if they dealt him

I think DSJ seriously lacks basketballing IQ to play with Dončić. Yes, Luka needs another ball handler, but that ball handler needs to know how to utilize his teammates, unlike DSJ, who just dribbles on the perimiter, shoots or goes to the rim, usually unsuccessfully. That can be seen with Jordan mostly. When Luka organises an attack, DeAndre usually comes out and sets a screen or something. When DSJ organises, he is just standing in the middle waiting something to happen.

I think the NBA analysts are masivelly downplaying basketballing IQ in the recent years.