Basketball/NBA

[Windhook]

Is everyone still just taking 3 pointers?.

Yes. It's the standard to get into NBA.

 

[jamrock]

Yes. It's the standard to get into NBA.

Smh, so boring.

 

[TheStig]

Jordans peak is not only unmatched by his will to power in winning continuous titles for Bulls that were hardly "all star"/"galactico", but also his sheer presence especially being clutch almost on any occasion it was necessary. There he is kinda above Messi, if we even dare to compare different sportsballs. He was menacing cunt, who got angrier and more efficient whenever push comes to shove. Just couldn't beat him in crush matches even, when playing alongside guys like Longley/Wenington, crazy Rodman, who was out half a time due to techicals and by historic standards, mediocre role players like Kerr, Kukoc, Harper. Pippen was the only other "star" player. Maybe Horace in the first stint, but mostly just good hard working guys. Without MJ those teams would be mid table at best.

That's glorifying Jordan and I'm a fan of his and think he's the GOAT. Jordan won 6 titles and played 15 seasons, not really "being clutch almost on any occasion". You are also downplaying his teammates, he had two all timers in Pippen and Rodman, also guys like Kukoč were awesome, some great players like Kerr, Grant etc. and not to forget Phil Jackson. Lebron never had a team like that except maybe the Heat years.

They also wouldn't be "midtable" without Jordan, we actually know that. They had 55 wins and finished 3rd in the East the season Jordan took a break.

 

[TheStig]

Basketball is a dead/dying sport.

The NBA is so meh these days, I haven't watched a full game in almost 2 years now.

Is everyone still just taking 3 pointers?.

Watching full games live is impossible, it's just breaks, comercials and stupid fans dancing on the stands all the time. I watch replays without breaks and I like this era of basketball even with it's flaws. I think the talent pool is much bigger than any other era but I get that old school basketball fans don't like this kind of basketball, it's very different from the 90s. To me the biggest problem is too many games in the regular season, most of the games just don't matter enough.

 

[khaled_a_d]

but in time he'll be normalized to where Kareem and Magic are at.

Kareem finishes 3rd in any all time list. He isn't normalized. 1 and 2 are obviously Jordan & Lebron, 2 younger guys who surpassed him.

Jordan is becoming a bit of a myth atm, but sooner or later he is the one who will join Kareem & Wilt and his time will be considered too ancient to be number 1.

 

[TheStig]

It will happen to everybody some day and it's getting true about Jordan. Very different basketball was played in the 90s, let alone the Bill Russell or Wilt time. Anyway, Lebron and Jordan are undisputed first two but it's hard to put one on the top, both have good arguments for that.

 

[jamrock]

Watching full games live is impossible, it's just breaks, comercials and stupid fans dancing on the stands all the time. I watch replays without breaks and I like this era of basketball even with it's flaws. I think the talent pool is much bigger than any other era but I get that old school basketball fans don't like this kind of basketball, it's very different from the 90s. To me the biggest problem is too many games in the regular season, most of the games just don't matter enough.

It's not even going back to the 90's, even the mid 00's.

Finals like spurs vs heat.

So I'm not one of those guys who is like 90's basketball XYZ.

It's just that every team plays the same now, if you watch one game, you watch all the games, that combined with all the breaks make it unwatchable.

 

[khaled_a_d]

It's not even going back to the 90's, even the mid 00's.

Finals like spurs vs heat.

So I'm not one of those guys who is like 90's basketball XYZ.

It's just that every team plays the same now, if you watch one game, you watch all the games, that combined with all the breaks make it unwatchable.

It is the same in almost every sport now. Different playing styles aren't normal as everyone is forced to catter to the efficient ways.

Even in football it is the same. 2 decades ago, Liga, Calcio and EPL had different styles, each coach too. Now it is a bit of copy cat leagues and everyone is trying to play in a way cliser to each other than it was years ago.

 

[TheStig]

GSW's and Pep's Barca affect.

 

[jamrock]

Basketball has taken it to another level, not even close to what's happening in football.

Where a lot of top teams play a different style football.

Everything is football today is a response to pep, but many have chosen different ways to respond.

Basketball everyone is just jacking up 3s.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Basketball has taken it to another level, not even close to what's happening in football.

Where a lot of top teams play a different style football.

Everything is football today is a response to pep, but many have chosen different ways to respond.

Basketball everyone is just jacking up 3s.

Because basketball is one league and 5 players team sport in a small coart. Europe has different styles than NBA.

The numbers are conclusive in that regard, though. Shooting 3's is the most efficient way of playing the game. Unless the NBA remove the 3, it isn't going away and only a stupid coach won't cater to it

 

[Windhook]

Kareem finishes 3rd in any all time list. He isn't normalized. 1 and 2 are obviously Jordan & Lebron, 2 younger guys who surpassed him.

Jordan is becoming a bit of a myth atm, but sooner or later he is the one who will join Kareem & Wilt and his time will be considered too ancient to be number 1.

Jordan's legacy is intact 26 years after he retired initially. He was the definition of basketball in the 90's and I haven't seen a player in any sports elevated to God status since. Undisputed.

Why I'm certain? Well, because LeBron's GOAT PR talk has only added more fuel to MJ's legacy. The next "chosen one" will be again compared to Jordan, because his style of play was beautiful, athletic and succesful. Emulated by the new generation in the likes of Anthony Edwards. It's not archaic like Kareem and Wilt. You don't see Embiid shooting skyhooks, but doing the Olajuwon moves. When he's not shooting bricks from 3pt line.

 

[Gnidrologist]

That's glorifying Jordan and I'm a fan of his and think he's the GOAT. Jordan won 6 titles and played 15 seasons, not really "being clutch almost on any occasion". You are also downplaying his teammates, he had two all timers in Pippen and Rodman, also guys like Kukoč were awesome, some great players like Kerr, Grant etc. and not to forget Phil Jackson. Lebron never had a team like that except maybe the Heat years.

They also wouldn't be "midtable" without Jordan, we actually know that. They had 55 wins and finished 3rd in the East the season Jordan took a break.

Thoroughly dissagree with that.
Can say the same about Messi, who has "only" 4 major titles in CL, first of which was passenger mode, despite having the same longevity in career of the most dominant team in the particular sport at the time, while having literal all time greats surrounding him as partners in crime for decade.
Nobody cares about winning, let alone being good in the NBA league, it's all about playoffs and the ring. In that aspect you don't seriously think Bulls without Jordan could actually aspire to a title, do you?

Obviously, no goat wins every single title, not even every second title and even surrounded with world class players. Jordan did two 3peats with two sets of different role players around him with Pippen being the only truly other world class player alongside him and still on vastly secondary role. I absolutely loved Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr, but they were the epitome of "good squad players" elevated by presence of greatness.

Only reasonable argument is that about Phil Jackson, who probably is like Pep of NBA. He just made teams work with whomever he had to work with and MJ benefited from it greatly, just like Messi did from Pep, but there's no way you can compare anybody in terms of clutch performances, especially in final stages and final seconds to MJ. I haven't paid much attention whose Lebrons pardners were at any given time, but they definitely couldn't be lower tier players than Kukoc and Kerr, come on. Also just the sheer competitiveness of 90s b-ball was on different league. There were les obvious hegemons like Lakers/Spurs/Goldenstate at any given time. Lot's of super tough teams to break and no mercy from the refs against tough defending. The Lebron emerged in the era of pussification and benefited from it greatly. There was no need for fade away jumpers, reverse layups or harsh physicality for him or anybody currently. Can just draw fouls infinitesimal times per match even from 3p line.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Jordan's legacy is intact 26 years after he retired initially. He was the definition of basketball in the 90's and I haven't seen a player in any sports elevated to God status since. Undisputed.

Jordan legacy isn't as intact, and many now has Lebron over him. It is a Maradona and Pele all over again.
And let's not forget that Jordan had Nike marketing behind him. There was never an athlete in history who got the PR he got, it's kind of ridiculous.

And No, the most undisputed goat in a sport is Wayne Gretzky, it is ridiculous to even suggest that Jordan is undisputed sport god in comparison to him, and I am a guy who never watched NHL game and I already know it.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Lebron to Jordan is the same as Penaldo to Messi. Also, saying that this the snowflake James is worse marketed than MJ, come on. MJ was the 80s action hero, masculine badass, while Bron is some sort of muh celebrity worship cult leader. MJ wasn't hailed and adored because he is black like nowdays, where Bron goes on twitter and TV to make speeches about politics to be applauded by deluded masses. MJ was marketed only because of his class and pedigree, which he deserved, while Bron is typical modern PoC celebrity, artificially elevated regardless of merit. Sheer stats is only thing he gets over MJ just like Penaldo over Messi on some aspects.