Borussia Dortmund
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
Blancone
New member
Mkhitaryan impressed me today with his best match of the season. As too did Şahin, who I thought delivered a MOTM performance today. Hummels had a couple of spots where I thought he was a bit too eagar to dispossess immediately rather than play a little more prudently and cautious, but he too had a dominant match. I also saw a bit more conservative play to close out the match, and other than that one excellent play by Max Meyer, I thought it worked splendid. Having said that, Schalke left a fair deal to be desired with their play, and so its unclear whether this match is a sign that the team is making progress or not IMO.
DennyCrane
Senior Member
The match isn't any indication, but their development over the past two years is more proof than needed to show that they're running round in circles. Half the blame goes to Magath, the other half goes to their board (read: Tönnies) for not putting their trust in Magath.
One would think that a club who hires Magath knows who they're hiring, but apparently Schalke didn't. Magath doesn't only manage your team, oh no sir, it's basically only a matter of time till heads start to roll and then he'll run almost the entire operative club business. He'll do everything from managing the contracts, buying and selling players, setting his own budgets and founding sub-companies to hide the debt in to the club PR, the stadium newsletter and the talks with fan groups. And everything in between as well.
You know that the final stage is reached when he starts to buy players by the dozen to make everyone replaceable to further build up his power. When this stage is reached, he becomes untouchable.
Now, people can think of him what they want, but he usually has success. The problem is though, that the club has to walk the entire way with him. If he's sacked at that point, he'll leave behind a big empty void no one will be able to fill. His successor Rangnick quit after 6 months (!) because he suffered from burn-out syndrome. Stevens lasted only a year, and I suspect that Keller won't make it to the end of the season as well.
It has become virtually impossible to manage this club. And this shows on the pitch as well.
One would think that a club who hires Magath knows who they're hiring, but apparently Schalke didn't. Magath doesn't only manage your team, oh no sir, it's basically only a matter of time till heads start to roll and then he'll run almost the entire operative club business. He'll do everything from managing the contracts, buying and selling players, setting his own budgets and founding sub-companies to hide the debt in to the club PR, the stadium newsletter and the talks with fan groups. And everything in between as well.
You know that the final stage is reached when he starts to buy players by the dozen to make everyone replaceable to further build up his power. When this stage is reached, he becomes untouchable.
Now, people can think of him what they want, but he usually has success. The problem is though, that the club has to walk the entire way with him. If he's sacked at that point, he'll leave behind a big empty void no one will be able to fill. His successor Rangnick quit after 6 months (!) because he suffered from burn-out syndrome. Stevens lasted only a year, and I suspect that Keller won't make it to the end of the season as well.
It has become virtually impossible to manage this club. And this shows on the pitch as well.
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
That only proves that your "sympathy" for Dortmund is not soley based on the BVB's ability to pose a threat to Bayern from time to time, like with so many other BVB sympathizers these days.
Sympathizes merely? I think you have to give both BVB and these folks more credit. BVB has truly amassed a fan base with its style of play and characteristics, which has nothing to do with Bayern. On top of that, the added appeal of BVB being this Cinderella underdogs challenging the big bad and powerful Bayern does make it even more attractive.
R
Ryu Hayabusa
Guest
I'm not sure whether you are possibly a German living in Germany, I am however, and let me tell you, there are tons of people jumping the BVB bandwagon purely based on the fact that there now is a second power in this country which is able to challenge the 'mighty' and 'evil' Bayern 'empire'.
The BVB playing attractive football surely is a plus. But ever since the arrival of van Gaal, Bayern has gradually been playing attractive football as well, with last season marking the peak in that regard.
I know what you mean with that last part, but I was "sympathetic" with Dortmund long before Kloppo even set foot in that club, so it's not an anti-Bayern bandwagon for me. It's not solely an anti-Schalke bandwagon either, but you can't like both clubs. I agree, however, that many people started supporting them solely to have a weapon against Bayern that would last more than 1-2 seasons. Although I would say that this applies mostly for Germans, not so much for international "fans", as the Germans' hate towards Bayern isn't really truly comprehensible if you're looking at it from outside. Then again, Bayern seems to have become less and less likeable even for European fans, the reason for which I'm not entirely sure about - it can't be the Bavarian antipathy that is a factor in the German hate towards Bayern. Perhaps it's the management, or some hurt feelings? I don't think it is the latter, as Barca bossed Europe for quite some time and didn't really get the stick that Bayern is getting. Anyhoo, again, I suspect it's mostly the German fans that jump on the BVB/anti-Bayern bandwagon. Others haven't grown up with those specific feelings of hatred.That only proves that your "sympathy" for Dortmund is not soley based on the BVB's ability to pose a threat to Bayern from time to time, like with so many other BVB sympathizers these days.
I think it's a mixture of exciting, fast football and the "working class" image; meaning a small club with limited financial means and a clever "buy small, get big results" policy bossing a lot of the "big clubs". In a way, Dortmund has been an epitome of everything that modern football is not, even if parts of this epitomisation is pure cliché. Add to that the constant threat of bigger clubs buying their best players and you have a club that is reminiscient of Robin Hood (a metaphor that Klopp himself has used). Quite similar to Arsenal and their growing fanbase.
Last edited:
R
Ryu Hayabusa
Guest
Yeah, I figured you for a German, truth be told. That's why I was making the point of you NOT being just one of the BVB glory hunters (I would argue it's a different kind of glory hunting than with your average Real, Barca, Bayern, Juve, PSG, United, City etc. glory hunter - with the BVB you can still feel "good" about it
) I'm pretty sure it's mostly based on the fact that Bayern has recently become a European force in its own right again, however not just "a force", but supposedly "the dominat force".
And just as in Germany, if you happen to be the best, you will attract aversion by lots of people. Even more so, if you happen to be the best over a long period. And I think that many supporters of the established European elite clubs are currently in a state of uncertainty and even fear. They fear the possibility that Bayern indeed proves to be 'the next big thing' and manages to truly dominate the CL for years to come (I won't argue about the actual chances of that happening - cause pride usually goes before the fall, so I will keep my mouth shut at all cost
).Also there is the Pep factor, which is likely to have caused admiration AND anitpathy at the same time, especially with Barca supporters. I think the feeling of betrayal plays a huge role here as well as the prospect of seeing another club have what Barca had with that specific coach/manager.
Agreed, the Robin Hood imagery the BVB management purposely facilitated in recent years, certainly is a big part of the club's appeal. And truth be told, even I have a certain admiration (mixed with a lot of antipathy due to the countless interview failures by Watzke, the outright lying by Zorc and even the players [if you are indeed German, watch this
-> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNnIjQxLgoU ]) for them. But don't tell anyone
Last edited:
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Beauty is in the eyes of beholder. Bayern sure plays attractive football as far as Bayern fans and some others are concerned, but BVB's style is quite different and attractive in its own right.
Ode to Django
You're not even a real journalism
Beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder
R
Ryu Hayabusa
Guest
Bayern virtually copied the BVB style (except for even improving upon it in terms of the counter-pressing's effectiveness and pace of the counter-attacks, while still sticking true to their own signature tactics, like overloading the wing) against Barcelona last season. I guess you as a Barca supporter of all, should remember.
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Perhaps they did. However, so what? Are you saying if one finds BVB's style attractive and appealing he/she must also be drawn to Bayern's?
Bayern is the best team in the world right now, no question about it. Having said that, not everyone should be a fan of it.
R
Ryu Hayabusa
Guest
No, I certainly don't want to force you be anything
To everyone his or her own of course.It merely sounded like you tried to refute my point that Bayern started playing some beutiful football a couple of years ago, with last year being the epitome. Then I was just pointing out, since you were so fond of Klopp's style, that Bayern was easily able to play almost the exact same style of football (while even enhancing it).
Spot on about the Pep factor, they day of his press conference for Bayern was a weird mixture of feelings for me; delight to see him back in action, and estrangement to see him next to Uli freaking Hoeneß. With the wrong club. I can't help but wanting Pep to suceed though, at least partly. Bayern usually don't keep foreign coaches for too long, so let's see how long it will last - one thing is for sure though, he's adapting perfectly. Not sure whether he's selling his soul to the devil or genuinely loving life in Bavaria, but seeing him in Lederhosen was one of the most cringeworthy things I've seen in a while.I'm pretty sure it's mostly based on the fact that Bayern has recently become a European force in its own right again, however not just "a force", but supposedly "the dominat force".
And just as in Germany, if you happen to be the best, you will attract aversion by lots of people. Even more so, if you happen to be the best over a long period. And I think that many supporters of the established European elite clubs are currently in a state of uncertainty and even fear. They fear the possibility that Bayern indeed proves to be 'the next big thing' and manages to truly dominate the CL for years to come (I won't argue about the actual chances of that happening - cause pride usually goes before the fall, so I will keep my mouth shut at all cost
Also there is the Pep factor, which is likely to have caused admiration AND anitpathy at the same time, especially with Barca supporters. I think the feeling of betrayal plays a huge role here as well as the prospect of seeing another club have what Barca had with that specific coach/manager.
If he carries on like he does though, Bayern and him will get along perfectly. As for the rest, as I said, it might be that it's their sucess that evokes antipathy in European football fans, although I do feel Barcelona wasn't as unpopular back in the day as Bayern are today. I hear a lot of people say they are arrogant. Whatever it is, t doesn't really matter. For me, personally, it's Uli I can't stand, along with the things I associate with Bayern (justifiedly or not), which I have already talked about at length. With a different management and perhaps a slightly different philosophy, I could like them, since I have nothing against their players or the regionalism they embody as such (although I'm not especially fond of Bavaria).
Agreed, the Robin Hood imagery the BVB management purposely facilitated in recent years, certainly is a big part of the club's appeal. And truth be told, even I have a certain admiration (mixed with a lot of antipathy due to the countless interview failures by Watzke, the outright lying by Zorc and even the players [if you are indeed German, watch this
Yeah, I remember that game. It was an exaggerated story by Großkreutz, that's nuff said really. Other than that, I think they deserve nothing but admiration for their activities on the transfer market, which have been brilliant year in year out; they deserve nothing but admiration for that. Also, how they've emerged from a low-class, low-budget mid table club to an European force is nothing short of amazing.
On another note:
What a shot.
that accuracy, that was intended for sure 
Home of Barca Fans
