Borussia Dortmund

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
No, I certainly don't want to force you be anything :) To everyone his or her own of course.
It merely sounded like you tried to refute my point that Bayern started playing some beutiful football a couple of years ago, with last year being the epitome. Then I was just pointing out, since you were so fond of Klopp's style, that Bayern was easily able to play almost the exact same style of football (while even enhancing it).

Nope, it was never my intention to suggest that Bayern plays unattractive (or attractive for that matter) football, the focus was on BVB.

I couldn't agree with the notion that Bayern and BVB play the exact same style of football. To me BVB is much faster and more direct than Bayern. BVB plays counters a lot, Bayern rarely does.
 
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AfricanBavarian

New member
As for the rest, as I said, it might be that it's their sucess that evokes antipathy in European football fans, although I do feel Barcelona wasn't as unpopular back in the day as Bayern are today. I hear a lot of people say they are arrogant. Whatever it is, t doesn't really matter. For me, personally, it's Uli I can't stand, along with the things I associate with Bayern (justifiedly or not), which I have already talked about at length. With a different management and perhaps a slightly different philosophy, I could like them, since I have nothing against their players or the regionalism they embody as such (although I'm not especially fond of Bavaria).
When i started following Bayern and Germ a footy around 2009 i was angry that they dont get as much coverage or respect as Spanish or English teams and i really wanted Bayern to succeed so the world know that they are a real superpower but the opposite happened. Thanks to Klopp and his rag tag BvB team, the Gotze and potential Lewa transfer Bayern has looked like the bad guy. At first it made me angry bu i soon stopped caring. In the end as long as Bayern win i could really careless. Also Barcelona picked up a lot of gloryhunters in their time of success i think with Bayern's image they may avoid that :p
 

suckabov

Lemon curry?
^ I won't go into detail about Bayern's bad guy image, but Bayern undeniably have a history of buying top players from their main competitors, which in some cases has turned the respective clubs into relegation fodder or simply rendered them harmless. Götze is not the best example, as in his case Dortmund did well to compensate for his loss, and most people were more hurt by his decision than by Bayern buying him. But if you look at the history of the Bundesliga, you will find numerous, much worse examples. Now I'm not attacking Bayern for it, but it's how they, or Hoeneß, do business.

:worthy: that accuracy, that was intended for sure :pep:
Yeah, he is just a beast. ... His reaction though :lol:
 
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Ryu Hayabusa

Guest
When i started following Bayern and Germ a footy around 2009 i was angry that they dont get as much coverage or respect as Spanish or English teams and i really wanted Bayern to succeed so the world know that they are a real superpower but the opposite happened. Thanks to Klopp and his rag tag BvB team, the Gotze and potential Lewa transfer Bayern has looked like the bad guy. At first it made me angry bu i soon stopped caring. In the end as long as Bayern win i could really careless. Also Barcelona picked up a lot of gloryhunters in their time of success i think with Bayern's image they may avoid that :p


Hehe, let me as a long-time Bayern fan tell you, that you will easily get used to the hate and over time will even start to virtually revel in it :D
 
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Ryu Hayabusa

Guest
As for the rest, as I said, it might be that it's their sucess that evokes antipathy in European football fans, although I do feel Barcelona wasn't as unpopular back in the day as Bayern are today. I hear a lot of people say they are arrogant. Whatever it is, t doesn't really matter. For me, personally, it's Uli I can't stand, along with the things I associate with Bayern (justifiedly or not), which I have already talked about at length. With a different management and perhaps a slightly different philosophy, I could like them, since I have nothing against their players or the regionalism they embody as such (although I'm not especially fond of Bavaria).



Yeah, I remember that game. It was an exaggerated story by Großkreutz, that's nuff said really. Other than that, I think they deserve nothing but admiration for their activities on the transfer market, which have been brilliant year in year out; they deserve nothing but admiration for that. Also, how they've emerged from a low-class, low-budget mid table club to an European force is nothing short of amazing.

Well, the thing that bugged me about that incident was that Großkreutz was not just "exaggerating", but the whole team started making up things and lied to the camera without blushing. They were dead serious about that incident, like it actually happened. I call that a serious lack in character. When you are a public figure and are in front of a camera, you simply are not supposed to lie through your teeth. These guys are football players, not politicians ffs.
Also the "Echte Liebe" slogan always bugged me, since it implies that only BVB fans can have true love towards their club, whereas the loyalty others share with their favorite team, is somewhat insincere in comparison.
"Mia san mir" is much less imposing on the feelings of others, since it merely states that "we know who we are and we like it, no matter what everybody else thinks or says". Such **** off mentality often serves well in real life btw.

However, as you said, there is no denying the accomplishments by guys like Watzke, Zorc and Klopp, rejuvenating a club which was facing financial death (which could be thwarted also with the help of Bayern ;) ) and was close to its last breath and turning it into a national (double) champion and a real contender on the international level within just a couple of years. For that, my hat is off.


Bayern on the other hand... I dunno, it's difficult to grasp how international fans would get the idea of Bayern being arrogant. I think it's more a matter of BVB being the supposed antithesis to Bayern and also the underdog, when they squared off in the CL final. And people just love to support the underdog and hope to see them win, no illusions about that. So in that instant Bayern was immediately labeled that big, bad wolf.
Also the sheer dominanting fashion in which that CL trophy was eventually won (remember the Barca and Juve legs as well as the first leg against Arsenal), caused a lot of hate. You just don't like to see you favorite team getting thrashed and humbled like that. It's humiliating. And you can't expect people to love the big bully afterwards.
 
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AfricanBavarian

New member
^ I won't go into detail about Bayern's bad guy image, but Bayern undeniably have a history of buying top players from their main competitors, which in some cases has turned the respective clubs into relegation fodder or simply rendered them harmless. Götze is not the best example, as in his case Dortmund did well to compensate for his loss, and most people were more hurt by his decision than by Bayern buying him. But if you look at the history of the Bundesliga, you will find numerous, much worse examples. Now I'm not attacking Bayern for it, but it's how they, or Hoeneß, do business.
I realize that but it annoys me how people think Bayern are the only guilty party, if you are a big club you are the bully. Im sure Monchengladbach fans werent happy to see Reus in a BvB jersey, neither were Nurnberg fans eiger to see Gundogan in a BvB jersey, or Sevilla fans eager to see Ramos in a RM kit, Southampton when Arsenal bought Walcott, or even Mallorca fans when Eto'o went to Barca. If you are a fan of a big club you really have no room to point fingers, im not attacking you or anyone who is a fan of a big club but the people who call Bayern the bad guys should look at their club before they start cry "foul play!" :p
Hehe, let me as a long-time Bayern fan tell you, that you will easily get used to the hate and over time will even start to virtually revel in it :D
I gotta admit i find the hate amusing these days :lol:
 

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Bayern on the other hand... I dunno, it's difficult to grasp how international fans would get the idea of Bayern being arrogant. I think it's more a matter of BVB being the supposed antithesis to Bayern and also the underdog, when they squared off in the CL final. And people just love to support the underdog and hope to see them win, no illusions about that. So in that instant Bayern was immediately labeled that big, bad wolf.
Also the sheer dominance in how that CL trophy was eventually won (remember the Barca and Juve legs as well as the first leg against Arsenal), caused a lot of hate. You just don't like to see you favorite team getting thrashed and humbled like that. It's humiliating. And you can't expect people to love the big bully afterwards.

The humiliating defeat definitely hurts, but personally I was a bit sick of Bayern long before that. For me personally, I just found Uli "The Big Mouth" Hoeneß, and his partner in crime Rummenigge way too irritating ( for example, what the heck was the latter thinking when he openly ridiculed BVB by saying that Götze has always been a Bavarian and the BVB only borrowed him temporarily? Extremely condescending, considering Götze was a product of the BVB youth system), on top of that, I am just surrounded by too many boastful Bayern fans who wouldn't shut up about how great they are these days.
 

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
I realize that but it annoys me how people think Bayern are the only guilty party, if you are a big club you are the bully. Im sure Monchengladbach fans werent happy to see Reus in a BvB jersey, neither were Nurnberg fans eiger to see Gundogan in a BvB jersey, or Sevilla fans eager to see Ramos in a RM kit, Southampton when Arsenal bought Walcott, or even Mallorca fans when Eto'o went to Barca. If you are a fan of a big club you really have no room to point fingers, im not attacking you or anyone who is a fan of a big club but the people who call Bayern the bad guys should look at their club before they start cry "foul play!" :p

I gotta admit i find the hate amusing these days :lol:

I don't think it is just about Bayern plucking players out of the smaller clubs, as you said all big clubs do that. I think the issue at hands is that Bayern had demonstrated a pattern of taking the best players and talents from their main competitors with the intention (at least from the third party perspective) to undermine them. Our fellow member DennyCrane had put together a very impressive and convincing list showing that pattern a while ago, you might want to search for it.
 

AfricanBavarian

New member
I don't think it is just about Bayern plucking players out of the smaller clubs, as you said all big clubs do that. I think the issue at hands is that Bayern had demonstrated a pattern of taking the best players and talents from their main competitors with the intention (at least from the third party perspective) to undermine them. Our fellow member DennyCrane had put together a very impressive and convincing list showing that pattern a while ago, you might want to search for it.

No offense but I dont need to see it cause it really means nothing to my argument and actually just backs my argument. Whenever you buy a player from another club you are(intentionally or "unintentionally" :lol: )weakening/undermining them. When Barca bought Alba from Valencia it weakened them, when they bought Alves from Sevilla it weakened Sevilla, when BvB bought Reus it weakened Monchengladbach, when R.Madrid bought Isco from Malaga it weakened Malaga, when RM bought Illaramendi from R.Sociedad it weakend R.Sociedad and when Man U bought Phil Jones from Blackburn it weakened Blackburn. Long story short buying a player from a team weakens your opposition, i may be misinterpreting your post but it sounds like your saying its only when Bayern buy players the parent club is weakened. If not then ill just say that once again all big clubs are bullies. Idk why most people think its fine when other big clubs do it but when Bayern does it everyone loses their minds! clubs lure top players from smaller clubs to come and play for them which weakens the smaller club. It has been happening for over a century. Like i said im not attacking anyone who is a fan of a big club but this is the way things are....
 
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DennyCrane

Senior Member
I don't even know what people are discussing here. Hoeneß openly admitted that the intention was to weaken other teams systematically. Google is your friend.
 

AfricanBavarian

New member
I don't even know what people are discussing here. Hoeneß openly admitted that the intention was to weaken other teams systematically. Google is your friend.

Im not arguing that Bayern dont weaken their opponents im saying all big clubs do it whether its Alves to Barca or Reus to Monchengladbach they all weaken their opponents...
 

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Nope, once again this is not about buying players from smaller teams which I agree will mostly likely end up weakening those teams. This is about buying players from your biggest competitors with the intent to weaken them. I don't think we cared so much about undermining Sevilla or Valencia as our eyes have always been on Real Madrid, same with Madrid too (did they consider Malaga a threatening competitor in the La Liga title race so much so that they had to buy Isco to weaken them? I don't think so). The key word here is "intent" or "intention".

As DennyCrane said, Uli the Big Mouth has opened acknowledged it. It is all about your motive, not the result.
 
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Ryu Hayabusa

Guest
The humiliating defeat definitely hurts, but personally I was a bit sick of Bayern long before that. For me personally, I just found Uli "The Big Mouth" Hoeneß, and his partner in crime Rummenigge way too irritating ( for example, what the heck was the latter thinking when he openly ridiculed BVB by saying that Götze has always been a Bavarian and the BVB only borrowed him temporarily? Extremely condescending, considering Götze was a product of the BVB youth system), on top of that, I am just surrounded by too many boastful Bayern fans who wouldn't shut up about how great they are these days.



He meant that Götze is an actual Bavarian in terms of being born and raised there for the first couple of years of his life, not to mention the fact that he was actually a supporter of FC Bayern (for what that's worth at such a young age) who slept in Bayern sheets.
 
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