Bundesliga

Who will win the Bundesliga this season?

  • Borussia Dortmund

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Stuttgart

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    21

Crews

New member
Whats the direction of the league, even as a hsv fan I think the league is a shambles. Bayern as a monopolist and 17 feeder clubs.

Changes are needed in this league

I agree as a Bayern fan. Problem is that for Bayern it's simpler and cheaper to buy good players from other Bundesliga clubs since the players are well customed to Germany and their prices aren't inflated trough the roof like in La Liga and especially in the EPL. I said yesterday in the Bayern sub-thread that Bundesliga needs atleast 3 teams in the top-10 of Europe's elite. Schalke has potential since they got money the from Gazprom and Dortmund has big upside as well but they need to increase their cashflow to keep up with the wages and Tuchel has to succeed. Schalke also needs a good coach and some key-signings for success. Frankfurt also has potential since it's the financial center of Germany and one of the biggest in that area in the whole Europe so there should be in theory a lot of potential investors as well as the city itself is very nice place to live as a player. Wolfsburg has the money but the "city" is more like a town and living there compared to Paris or London is a massive downside in the long run.

The German youth development has already been improved vastly and Germany is one of the best talent factors in the world. Bundesliga only needs more money for everyone else other than Bayern so they can keep up with the wages of the Spanish and English leagues to create success in the long run. Economically though Germany and Bundesliga are very well managed and they don't have the debt issue as the La Liga and PL which is promising.
 

Sterlingfan2000

Active member
I agree as a Bayern fan. Problem is that for Bayern it's simpler and cheaper to buy good players from other Bundesliga clubs since the players are well customed to Germany and their prices aren't inflated trough the roof like in La Liga and especially in the EPL. I said yesterday in the Bayern sub-thread that Bundesliga needs atleast 3 teams in the top-10 of Europe's elite. Schalke has potential since they got money the from Gazprom and Dortmund has big upside as well but they need to increase their cashflow to keep up with the wages and Tuchel has to succeed. Schalke also needs a good coach and some key-signings for success. Frankfurt also has potential since it's the financial center of Germany and one of the biggest in that area in the whole Europe so there should be in theory a lot of potential investors as well as the city itself is very nice place to live as a player. Wolfsburg has the money but the "city" is more like a town and living there compared to Paris or London is a massive downside in the long run.

The German youth development has already been improved vastly and Germany is one of the best talent factors in the world. Bundesliga only needs more money for everyone else other than Bayern so they can keep up with the wages of the Spanish and English leagues to create success in the long run. Economically though Germany and Bundesliga are very well managed and they don't have the debt issue as the La Liga and PL which is promising.

I really see the league dying, something must be done. I hear a Sponsor ran away from werder just to join bayern. The gap is increasing too much , which means the league title is becoming useless and Tradition Clubs are dying.

The Only Solution I see is to Open for Investors, or else this league will become a utter Joke.
 

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
I agree as a Bayern fan. Problem is that for Bayern it's simpler and cheaper to buy good players from other Bundesliga clubs since the players are well customed to Germany and their prices aren't inflated trough the roof like in La Liga and especially in the EPL. I said yesterday in the Bayern sub-thread that Bundesliga needs atleast 3 teams in the top-10 of Europe's elite. Schalke has potential since they got money the from Gazprom and Dortmund has big upside as well but they need to increase their cashflow to keep up with the wages and Tuchel has to succeed. Schalke also needs a good coach and some key-signings for success. Frankfurt also has potential since it's the financial center of Germany and one of the biggest in that area in the whole Europe so there should be in theory a lot of potential investors as well as the city itself is very nice place to live as a player. Wolfsburg has the money but the "city" is more like a town and living there compared to Paris or London is a massive downside in the long run.

The German youth development has already been improved vastly and Germany is one of the best talent factors in the world. Bundesliga only needs more money for everyone else other than Bayern so they can keep up with the wages of the Spanish and English leagues to create success in the long run. Economically though Germany and Bundesliga are very well managed and they don't have the debt issue as the La Liga and PL which is promising.

Bundesliga definitely has an up-hill battle to take on. The gap between Bayern and other German clubs are not getting any closer in terms of pretty much everything, player structure, wage, finance, reputation etc. Even if the likes of BVB, Schalke and Wolfsburg, Redbull Leipzig etc. get a lot of money, they are still not the destinations of the best non-German players. The good news is a lot of talent are coming through the German youth system, and Bayern can't take them all so in the long run these clubs will have their shares of the domestic talent. But that is not enough.
 

DennyCrane

Senior Member
Bundesliga definitely has an up-hill battle to take on. The gap between Bayern and other German clubs are not getting any closer in terms of pretty much everything, player structure, wage, finance, reputation etc. Even if the likes of BVB, Schalke and Wolfsburg, Redbull Leipzig etc. get a lot of money, they are still not the destinations of the best non-German players. The good news is a lot of talent are coming through the German youth system, and Bayern can't take them all so in the long run these clubs will have their shares of the domestic talent. But that is not enough.


The entire debate boils down to the legitimacy of the 50 + 1 rule yet again. Since I'm somehow not able to find my old post concerning this, suffice it to say that if clubs really wanted to and wouldn't care about negative repercussions in the world of mass media, blogs and magazines and of course the DFL reps throwing a hissy fit, they could bypass the rule. Yet noone does it. Only a handful of people try actively to reach the abolition of this rule. Conclusion: The majority of clubs don't want to bypass/abolish it.

And that's for a variety of reasons, most of them being deeply rooted in german (football) culture, and as such, aren't entirely rational.

For one, DFB/DFL and associated clubs pride themselves on having a relatively small gap between amateur football and professional football, not only financially. Bear in mind that one of the most important arguments against dispersing BL matchdays was that amateur football players, who traditionally (mostly) play on Sundays couldn't watch the matches anymore. The foreseeable future with investors would lead to further dispersing matchdays to appeal to foreign markets in order to make it more profitable; needless to say that this wouldn't sit well with a lot of people.
Secondly, amateur players should have realistic possibilities to make it to the top division in Germany without having to compete too much with foreign star power that will be brought in; otherwise this would be directly detrimental to the efforts made in youth development.
Thirdly, the financial gap between professional and amateur/smaller clubs would widen even further. The relative parity between these clubs, even when not fully grounded in reality, is held in high regard in Germany.

Also, football is the most important sport in Germany. A relatively high percentage of people play in amateur clubs, support their local teams and visit stadiums on a regular basis; all in all very similar to England actually. And the direction the EPL took regarding the legal stance towards foreign investors is a cautionary tale to many here. Increasing ticket prices, abolition of standing rooms, banning choreographies because they don't sit well with sponsors and investors etc. pp.. are a nightmare vision to a surprisingly big number of people. Many supporters would rather have their club eke out an existence in the no mans land of the league table than have to deal with the outgrowths of excessive sponsorship and investor dealings. One can call this naive or short-sighted or whatever, but one also has to accept this stance for what it is - idealism. And this is actually the key word here.


Another thing is the fear of change in general. You'll probably not find people anywhere on Planet Earth who display more of a general anxiety towards the future and change of tried and tested procedures than germans. Please note that this isn't to be confused with close mindedness or over the top conservatism. It's deeply and honestly felt by a great majority of people and yes, even when it's completely detrimental to the economic reality and therefore in the end turns out to be more than a bit irrational. Why this is directly opposed to the abolition or bypassing of established rules needs no further explanation I think.
In direct correlation to this, there's the fear that clubs with minor or next to zero tradition or parvenu clubs respectively shake up the status quo when the rule is abolished. And again, the underlying notion in a majority of the population that sucess is something that needs to be earned with hard work over time is the actual issue here. The fact that smaller clubs could get even with the top dogs with little effort and in a comparably short timeframe seems to hurt the general sense of fairness.

Needless to say that this general anxiety also encompasses the legalization of investor involvement; as these people at best are perceived as shadowy characters with questionable wealth-origin and at worst as money-grabbing locusts looking for a short term profit. More precisely, there's a certain suspiciousness towards investor groups that is based on the fact that these people don't necessarily share the business values that have been established here. To fully grasp this, one has to realize that the bulk and backbone of the german economy is still based on small and medium sized businesses, even a lot of corporate groups have the majority of shares in the hands of private families - and that is something that worked for employees all around this country for decades. Deterrent examples of what happens when investors take over are abundant in the economic history of this country.
Strangely enough, at the same time there are about fifty german multinational corporate groups that have their capital spread among investor groups from all over the world, yet nobody really cares about that. As reflected by german legal status, the populace here doesn't seem to mind the establishment of cartels either; probably because they are already established. Sounds inconsistent to you ? That's because it is. As I said, it isn't entirely rational.

Point being: The debate about the abolition of this rule is not based on rational considerations alone; it's an emotional issue for many and based on the domestic common subconscious more than anything else. That the DFB/DFL finds itself at a crossroad regarding the future of the league and also the international competitiveness is obvious to many and actually beyond dispute. But I can't spot a willingness to abolish this rule in the majority, which is why don't think that it'll be abolished - quite the contrary actually. The public debate will drag on for at least a decade with no definite outcome, as usual. Unless of course the ECJ comes to the conclusion that it violates European law. I wouldn't count on that either to be honest.
 

Sterlingfan2000

Active member
the 50+1 Rule is a big Problem also for bayern, because it hurts the attractivenes of the league. Bayern will have it tough to get Star players in the future despite their big money pocket and it will be difficult to keep their players in a zero Competetion league
 

Crews

New member
the 50+1 Rule is a big Problem also for bayern, because it hurts the attractivenes of the league. Bayern will have it tough to get Star players in the future despite their big money pocket and it will be difficult to keep their players in a zero Competetion league

Playing at Bayern is the biggest dream for a german player, unless the player supports a rival of Bayern. Germany produces so much talent that I won't see that as a problem. Barcelona buying Neymar has got the board sued dor tax evasion and combined with Suarez the club has a lot of debt. Bayern't won't buy those 100m players for sure but their academy is one of the best and they already have a lot of talent coming up (Højberg, Kurt, Weiser) just to name a few.
 

NeyMesSis

New member
Playing at Bayern is the biggest dream for a german player, unless the player supports a rival of Bayern. Germany produces so much talent that I won't see that as a problem. Barcelona buying Neymar has got the board sued dor tax evasion and combined with Suarez the club has a lot of debt. Bayern't won't buy those 100m players for sure but their academy is one of the best and they already have a lot of talent coming up (Højberg, Kurt, Weiser) just to name a few.

lol
 

Jägermeister

New member
Playing at Bayern is the biggest dream for a german player, unless the player supports a rival of Bayern. Germany produces so much talent that I won't see that as a problem. Barcelona buying Neymar has got the board sued dor tax evasion and combined with Suarez the club has a lot of debt. Bayern't won't buy those 100m players for sure but their academy is one of the best and they already have a lot of talent coming up (Højberg, Kurt, Weiser) just to name a few.

Why do I keep reading then that Bayern want to go on a big shopping tour (again), this summer?
 

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Playing at Bayern is the biggest dream for a german player, unless the player supports a rival of Bayern. Germany produces so much talent that I won't see that as a problem. Barcelona buying Neymar has got the board sued dor tax evasion and combined with Suarez the club has a lot of debt. Bayern't won't buy those 100m players for sure but their academy is one of the best and they already have a lot of talent coming up (Højberg, Kurt, Weiser) just to name a few.

I thought Bayern was not going to renew Weiser's contract?

To me the brightest Bayern prospect is Gaudino, hands down. So much poise and composure, I think he will be at least a Toni Kroos-level midfielder in the future.
 

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
I think that it's because, in their mind, they didn't win the UCL or the Pokal in addition to the league, and, as such, their season is deemed a minor failure.

That, plus they genuinely have quite a few aging players that need to be replaced/have a back-up for.
 

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