Bundesliga

[Ryu Hayabusa]

I liked that article of the Independent:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/bayern-munich-have-won-the-bundesliga-title-already-and-theyve-only-played-eight-matches-a6680236.html

I see why you did. Excellent article with true wisdom indeed.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Bayern opted to not approach him/declare their interest to BVB for him, as they literally didn't want to sign yet another BVB player. There is a difference to "who refuses to go to Bayern". That "Bayern shall never have me" (or something like that) quote by him was completely fabricated by the british Mirror. BVB themselves were the ones to expose that horseshit.

I think it is wishful thinking on the part of Bayern fans to believe as long as Bayern makes an offer Reus will be happily packing his bags and eagerly heading to Säbener Strasse.

There are bound to be German players who grew up not inspiring to play for Bayern one day. Bayern is not everything.

 

[Yannik]

The issue is not people being 'really into a sport'. If you are really in to German football then you may well find the race for second or relegation fight interesting.

People already interested in German football will watch anyway but more casual fans in competition with other leagues won't as in general there is not time or desire to study each league in detail when there are so many leagues played each weekend.

In general people will only take an interest in the title race.

You're kinda nailing the problem here. People dont get interested to it on the first superificial sight. At that point they couldnt tell wether its boring or not, they just werent appealed to it from on first sight (because title race), so they didnt bother about getting to know the league more, since it would require time and effort to gather proper knowledge about all the clubs, surroundings, players, talents, rumors etc. Yet those who still dare to look further behind it, somehow get interested into it. Its comparable to starting a new tv-series: The teaser-text on the back of the DVD sounded boring as fuck, but when you play it anyway, then you start to get addicted to it. Thats absolutely normal. From the first sight, La Liga also looks boring as fuck to me, but if I'd get into it, then I might find it interesting too.

 

[Sterlingfan2000]

I think in Germany theres a problem they always talk the bundesliga good. Its a shit league and has no competetion. They should stop talking the league good, instead start to make it better.

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

I think it is wishful thinking on the part of Bayern fans to believe as long as Bayern makes an offer Reus will be happily packing his bags and eagerly heading to Säbener Strasse.

There are bound to be German players who grew up not inspiring to play for Bayern one day. Bayern is not everything.

I chose to base my opinion on facts, you yours on speculation.

I'm not even saying that he would have gone to Bayern if they had made a move. I was merely stating that we definitely cannot say that it was Reus who refused Bayern.

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

I think in Germany theres a problem they always talk the bundesliga good. Its a shit league and has no competetion. They should stop talking the league good, instead start to make it better.

You, as usual, don't know what you are talking about, Hamad. Just look at the past 5 years of CL football and how many of the Bundesliga's teams made it to the round of last 16 each year compared to other "top leagues".


It's also purely coincidental that the Bundesliga holds the second spot in UEFA's 5 year ranking... because it is a SHIT league.

 

[Luftstalag14]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/oct/05/bayern-munich-dominance-bundesliga-stuck-on-shuffle


To anyone who constantly moans about how boring the league is.

Coming from Bundesliga's resident overseas spokesperson Honigstein, of course it is not surprising to read this piece. He is certainly right for the most part. It has reached the point where domestic non-Bayern audiences and fans have little to no aspirations about winning championships, "..there is plenty of hope and fear to go around to keep everyone hooked" is certainly true, but it is about clinching the CL spot or avoid relegation.

Honigstein himself expressed the necessity to build new fanbase abroad and concurred without trophies it is very hard to do so. Bayern will gain more fans overseas for sure, but the league as a whole will not.

 

[Luftstalag14]

From a superficial point of view, yes. But when you are really into the respective sport, then you are paying attention to a thousand things, and not just one, even if you perceive it as the most important one out of them.

I think it is true when you have more stakes such as when your son is playing for team XYZ and you just want him to play well, or you have this local rivalry/competition with team ABC and all you care about is beating team ABC etc. Those things do make things interesting other than winning the title. But I'd think this applies more to the lower leagues. When you are in the big league, the No.1 league as in 1.Bundesliga, you do want your team to get as much closer as to winning the trophy. That's why I said Bundesliga nowadays is akin to non-American teams playing in the Olympics and FIBA tournaments when Team USA staffed with professional NBA players entered the competitions.

 

[DennyCrane]

Coming from Bundesliga's resident overseas spokesperson Honigstein, of course it is not surprising to read this piece. He is certainly right for the most part. It has reached the point where domestic non-Bayern audiences and fans have little to no aspirations about winning championships, "..there is plenty of hope and fear to go around to keep everyone hooked" is certainly true, but it is about clinching the CL spot or avoid relegation.

Honigstein himself expressed the necessity to build new fanbase abroad and concurred without trophies it is very hard to do so. Bayern will gain more fans overseas for sure, but the league as a whole will not.

Not sure on the bolded part though since the Bayern brand is polarizing overseas as well; because as strange as it is, Bayern also gains more haters overseas as well while they're gaining fans. Those explicitly Anti-Bayern fans will then start to support the runner-up du jour, and maybe they'll stick to that club if it has an identity to call their own - think Dortmund. Whether this crowd will stick around for the long run remains to be seen.

 

[DonAK]

Didn't Honigstein say Pep would get sacked if Bayern failed to win the CL this season?

 

[Yannik]

as far as I know Dortmund for example did achieve a large increase of their international fanbase, simply by beating Madrid in the CL final and on top of that, for being as "bundesliga-as-possible" in terms of all the pros that come with the Bundesliga model (fast-paced football, passionate atmosphere, fans, charismatic players and coaches), aswell as being an alternative to all those richass snob-clubs with their starplayers and their trophycabinetts. Dortmund is like that club that everyone loves besides their already-favourite-club. Despite their success, Dortmund hasnt changed as a club a lot to what they were before everyone was on the bandwagon, people just didnt notice them. Once they got media attention, everyone fell in love with them.
And Dortmund isnt that different to clubs like Schalke or Gladbach after all. If Schalke would reach the CL final by sensationally beating one or two top-clubs, you'd expect similar reactions for them. Everything is alright, it just needs proper marketing.

 

[Luftstalag14]

I hope so. I think that he has made a development as a coach at Bayern, too, and that it might have changed his idea of football a little bit that he had before when he was mainly working with Barcelona and that setup.

I liked that article of the Independent:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/bayern-munich-have-won-the-bundesliga-title-already-and-theyve-only-played-eight-matches-a6680236.html

I smell a Bayern fan in him.

Of course Bayern fans like him are totally enjoying it, it can't get much better than this (other than winning the CL of course). It is certainly among the best times to be a Bayern fan today.

"FC Bayern forever Number one, you can call us the champions of the world, FC Bayern forever Number one, we're much better than the rest"

All hails Bayern, the mighty Baaaaaaaaayyyyern!

I chose to base my opinion on facts, you yours on speculation.

I'm not even saying that he would have gone to Bayern if they had made a move. I was merely stating that we definitely cannot say that it was Reus who refused Bayern.

Yeah, Ryu, I will give you that.

But still, I think my speculation is not far off. As big as Bayern is, there are people who grow up not liking it in Germany, aren't there? Sure most folks want to play for fame and money in addition to professional development, but there are people still with pride out there. I am sure there are players in Spain that would absolutely not want to play for us.

Not sure on the bolded part though since the Bayern brand is polarizing overseas as well; because as strange as it is, Bayern also gains more haters overseas as well while they're gaining fans. Those explicitly Anti-Bayern fans will then start to support the runner-up du jour, and maybe they'll stick to that club if it has an identity to call their own - think Dortmund. Whether this crowd will stick around for the long run remains to be seen.

That's very true, Herr Crane. A good point.

as far as I know Dortmund for example did achieve a large increase of their international fanbase, simply by beating Madrid in the CL final and on top of that, for being as "bundesliga-as-possible" in terms of all the pros that come with the Bundesliga model (fast-paced football, passionate atmosphere, fans, charismatic players and coaches), aswell as being an alternative to all those richass snob-clubs with their starplayers and their trophycabinetts. Dortmund is like that club that everyone loves besides their already-favourite-club. Despite their success, Dortmund hasnt changed as a club a lot to what they were before everyone was on the bandwagon, people just didnt notice them. Once they got media attention, everyone fell in love with them.
And Dortmund isnt that different to clubs like Schalke or Gladbach after all. If Schalke would reach the CL final by sensationally beating one or two top-clubs, you'd expect similar reactions for them. Everything is alright, it just needs proper marketing.

A lot of what you said above is true Yannik. I think them beating Real Madrid did raise their profile internationally, but more than that, to your point, a true fan of BVB likes it because of its intrinsic characteristics like the ones you mentioned. But on your last point, I am not sure if it would be the same if the likes of Schalke or Gladbach were in BVB's place. If they beat Bayern and other top CL elite teams they will certain gain more recognition, but their style of play and everything else about it does not come close to what BVB has been able to offer, in my opinion. They lack the oozing charm BVB has. Gladbach is certainly better than Schalke (it has nothing to do with the rivalry with BVB, just how they play, sorry my friend and fellow Cule Jägermeister ) though.

 

[serghei]

as far as I know Dortmund for example did achieve a large increase of their international fanbase, simply by beating Madrid in the CL final and on top of that, for being as "bundesliga-as-possible" in terms of all the pros that come with the Bundesliga model (fast-paced football, passionate atmosphere, fans, charismatic players and coaches), aswell as being an alternative to all those richass snob-clubs with their starplayers and their trophycabinetts. Dortmund is like that club that everyone loves besides their already-favourite-club. Despite their success, Dortmund hasnt changed as a club a lot to what they were before everyone was on the bandwagon, people just didnt notice them. Once they got media attention, everyone fell in love with them.
And Dortmund isnt that different to clubs like Schalke or Gladbach after all. If Schalke would reach the CL final by sensationally beating one or two top-clubs, you'd expect similar reactions for them. Everything is alright, it just needs proper marketing.

But the problem is Dortmund from 2012-14 and Leverkusen in the early 2000's, even Shalke from several years ago, don't have the financial power of Bayern. That ultimately makes whatever success they have a short spell, because they just can't afford to keep their best players when Bayern comes knocking. Bayern always is there, at the top, the other teams are not. Hamburg from a CL team a few years back is now a relegation candidate. Same with Stuttgart, not that long ago, in the time of Gomez, they were champions. Now they are shit. Same with Werder Bremen, a decade ago they were a Champions League team, now they are your average Bundesliga side.

As long as the only team in the league who can keep it's best players is Bayern alone, Bundesliga won't compare with Spain or England.

 

[Luftstalag14]

But the problem is Dortmund from 2012-14 and Leverkusen in the early 2000's, even Shalke from several years ago, don't have the financial power of Bayern. That ultimately makes whatever success they have a short spell, because they just can't afford to keep their best players when Bayern comes knocking. Bayern always is there, at the top, the other teams are not. Hamburg from a CL team a few years back is now a relegation candidate. Same with Stuttgart, not that long ago, in the time of Gomez, they were champions. Now they are shit. Same with Werder Bremen, a decade ago they were a Champions League team, now they are your average Bundesliga side.

As long as the only team in the league who can keep it's best players is Bayern alone, Bundesliga won't compare with Spain or England.

Very true indeed. And not just when Bayern comes knocking, foreign teams like us too. Most Bundesliga teams just can't retain their star players.

 

[Yannik]

A lot of what you said above is true Yannik. I think them beating Real Madrid did raise their profile internationally, but more than that, to your point, a true fan of BVB likes it because of its intrinsic characteristics like the ones you mentioned. But on your last point, I am not sure if it would be the same if the likes of Schalke or Gladbach were in BVB's place. If they beat Bayern and other top CL elite teams they will certain gain more recognition, but their style of play and everything else about it does not come close to what BVB has been able to offer, in my opinion. They lack the oozing charm BVB has. Gladbach is certainly better than Schalke though, it has nothing to do with BVB, just how they play (sorry my friend and fellow Cule Jägermeister ).

Its not the same sort of oozing charm, its a different one, but they are not less charmant after all.
Think of it, Schalke for example advancing to the finals of CL after herocially beating huge teams, with a squad that inherits 6 of 11 starting-players below the age of 22. Dont you think that would sound kinda exciting?
Now I agree that Dortmunds playstyle, and the presence of Klopp had a lot to do with their popularity, while Schalke is often just randomly kicking the ball around and the fact that I just forgot the name of Schalke's coach tells a story about the charisma of that guy, but I think Gladbach could get some people onto their boat with their playstyle. Also both have just as fanatic fans (just a bit smaller stadiums) and could dwell in role of "the underdog in the world of the giants", you know, im talking about serious hipster-club-material.

Both wouldnt get as much as attention as Dortmund has, but they'd pull a lot of people into the Bundesliga boat.