Bundesliga

[Luftstalag14]

This is not an option and it nevr has been one. Bundesliga is not gonna sell out, just for competetiveness so that a couple of big club fans overseas can everynow and then consider watching a game from there. The only place where someone would suggest something like this is a Barca or Madrid forum, noone on the fanforums of the old german clubs wants that, this is basically against everything that german football stands for. Fans would boycott the games if that ever happens.

Sure overseas fans like me don't matter (they can really stop those China and U.S. summer tours by the way, who the hell gives a damn about those folks anyway?), like I said, enjoy your dominance of the Buli in the next decades. You are welcome.

 

[Yannik]

Sure overseas fans like me don't matter (they can really stop those China and U.S. summer tours by the way, who the hell gives a damn about those folks anyway?), like I said, enjoy your dominance of the Buli in the next decades. You are welcome.

There's a difference between doing oversea tours and commercializing a whole league philosophy just to make it TV friendly. Don't even try to paint this black or white. Going oversea and expanding on the market is not violating anything that traditional german football culture always stood for, germany has always been open to foreigners who appreciate the league (in the form that it is); whoring for investors IS doing that. There are people who value other things in football than those that you care about. Decadelong season ticket holders, who have been with the clubs since they can think back. What you are suggesting is simply screwing them over and opening the door for a primetime format of entertainment football, customized for lonely saturday afternoons with PayTV and popcorn. If that is what mists your nethers, then here are your 2 options:

1. Write a complaint to the DFL. (link in the mail) Make demandings about the abolition of 50+1, to allow oligarchs, sheikhs and major corporations buying into the clubs. Reason that Bayern are Hummels-buying dickheads.
2. Go ahead and follow whatever other league/club you fancy instead that shows you the format you want to see, Barca, Madrid, PL, but the Bundesliga is simply not your cup of tea then and - fortunately for every german football fan - this is not going to change.

 

[Luftstalag14]

There's a difference between doing oversea tours and commercializing a whole league philosophy just to make it TV friendly. Don't even try to paint this black or white. Going oversea and expanding on the market is not violating anything that traditional german football culture always stood for, germany has always been open to foreigners who appreciate the league (in the form that it is); whoring for investors IS doing that. There are people who value other things in football than those that you care about. Decadelong season ticket holders, who have been with the clubs since they can think back. What you are suggesting is simply screwing them over and opening the door for a primetime format of entertainment football, customized for lonely saturday afternoons with PayTV and popcorn. If that is what mists your nethers, then here are your 2 options:

1. Write a complaint to the DFL. (link in the mail) Make demandings about the abolition of 50+1, to allow oligarchs, sheikhs and major corporations buying into the clubs. Reason that Bayern are Hummels-buying dickheads.
2. Go ahead and follow whatever other league/club you fancy instead that shows you the format you want to see, Barca, Madrid, PL, but the Bundesliga is simply not your cup of tea then and - fortunately for every german football fan - this is not going to change.

You first claimed that only overseas fans of foreign and non-Bundesliga fans such as Barca and Real Madrid fans complaining about the lack of competition and Bayern-domination, but the fact of the matter is, many foreign non-Bayern Bundesliga fans, including those of the BVB's, are also complaining about it, especially in the face of Bayern pulling all those stunts at the expense of BVB. So don't just single out Barca and Real Madrid fans.

Of course Bundesliga primarily exists to serve the German fans and I am not in any position to say screw the Germans. And don't make it sound like some sort of foreigners vs. Germans on this issue. So the German fans themselves have been pretty content with what has happened lately? OK, sorry, us foreign fans will just butt out.

As a BVB supporter, it is simply frustrating to see the team getting dismantled after almost every season (or two). It is very disheartening to see your core group of players leaving. Don't tell me what I should enjoy/follow and what I shouldn't please.

 

[Yannik]

You first claimed that only overseas fans of foreign and non-Bundesliga fans such as Barca and Real Madrid fans complaining about the lack of competition and Bayern-domination, but the fact of the matter is, many foreign non-Bayern Bundesliga fans, including those of the BVB's, are also complaining about it, especially in the face of Bayern pulling all those stunts at the expense of BVB. So don't just single out Barca and Real Madrid fans.

Of course Bundesliga primarily exists to serve the German fans and I am not in any position to say screw the Germans. And don't make it sound like some sort of foreigners vs. Germans on this issue. So the German fans themselves have been pretty content with what has happened lately? OK, sorry, us foreign fans will just butt out.

As a BVB supporter, it is simply frustrating to see the team getting dismantled after almost every season (or two). It is very disheartening to see your core group of players leaving. Don't tell me what I should enjoy/follow and what I shouldn't please.

I'll do that when you're not ging to twist my words there. I never said anything about a refusal to acknowledge the problem from german fans that only foreign fans can see. Anyone is aware of a lack of competition, we are not stupid. I said that those are the people who come up with things like "get rid of 50+1". Either because they haven't tried to think the consequences through, or because they don't care about it because they are well - foreign fans, and the consequences are not hitting them anyway. Yeah, tough life for BVB supporters, tell me, do you know any of them willing to trade their current situationo with a half sold out Westfalenstadion, and 30.000 specatotrs sitting there with crowd clappers? Is that what's meant with the slogan "Echte Liebe"?

 

[El Flaco]

Hannover 96's promising talent Niklas Feierabend has passed away following a car accident

Shame to hear about it, RIP
[MENTION=19371]Yannik[/MENTION]

 

[El Flaco]

Dortmund has overtaken Hamburg and Bremen in the all-time Bundesliga table this year and is now second behind Bayern.

 

[DennyCrane]

I'll do that when you're not ging to twist my words there. I never said anything about a refusal to acknowledge the problem from german fans that only foreign fans can see. Anyone is aware of a lack of competition, we are not stupid. I said that those are the people who come up with things like "get rid of 50+1". Either because they haven't tried to think the consequences through, or because they don't care about it because they are well - foreign fans, and the consequences are not hitting them anyway. Yeah, tough life for BVB supporters, tell me, do you know any of them willing to trade their current situationo with a half sold out Westfalenstadion, and 30.000 specatotrs sitting there with crowd clappers? Is that what's meant with the slogan "Echte Liebe"?

Dortmund, like many other german clubs, have separated their royalty player departments (among other departments) into legal forms that allow for foreign funding by corporations or other entities. Yet I see no Klatschpappe on the Süd. Likewise, abolishing 50+1 wouldn't necessarily equal total sellout like the BPL - this could be done way more sensibly. Also, so-called Werkteams are already operating on the basis of a legal exception (Lex Leverkusen), Hoffenheim as well. 50+1 in reality is a laughing stock.

The actual reason this rule exists is also not to protect the feelings of football romantics - it's to prevent money laundering schemes. Now consider how much sense that makes - as if people looking to launder money chose a business that is under such public scrutiny as football. A lot, if not the majority of cartel law experts also think it's void. If this rule is ever brought before a European Court, it's going to get interesting.

 

[Yannik]

Also, so-called Werkteams are already operating on the basis of a legal exception (Lex Leverkusen), Hoffenheim as well.

Yes, I've been to Wolfsburg vs ZSKA last year. Vivid scenes at the stadium. Visiting Hoffenheim is still a dream to many. But seriously, I was already used to that here in Hannover, when the ultras decided to part ways with the club last year because of Martin Kind who's known for his actions against 50+1 since years. I know what a dead stadium sounds like. German football fans in general go on the fences even when jsut the ticket prices increase by 5 Eur. Now try to sensibly abolish 50+1 and get Sheikh Muhammad Fayasad Al-Hallenbad ruling their favourite club. The fanclubs ARE football romantics.

 

[DennyCrane]

German football fans in general go on the fences even when jsut the ticket prices increase by 5 Eur

I know.

Now try to sensibly abolish 50+1 and get Sheikh Muhammad Fayasad Al-Hallenbad ruling their favourite club. The fanclubs ARE football romantics.

Then they should finally get real and demand their clubs to stop external funding entirely and go watch them play in the 4th division a few years from now. Or would this be too inconvenient for them, perhaps; having to actually back up their words instead of taking the pseudo-ethic approach. These people are hypocrites: If one is truly opposed to the commercialism in football, go watch amateur football (Which btw. everyone should do, because it's awesome in Germany and these clubs actually do need all the support they can get)

They should also contemplate that their cheap tickets are subsidized by VIP-Area Klatschpappe fans, which they despise so much. And yes, I'm totally paraphrasing Hoeneß here.

 

[Luftstalag14]

I'll do that when you're not ging to twist my words there. I never said anything about a refusal to acknowledge the problem from german fans that only foreign fans can see. Anyone is aware of a lack of competition, we are not stupid. I said that those are the people who come up with things like "get rid of 50+1". Either because they haven't tried to think the consequences through, or because they don't care about it because they are well - foreign fans, and the consequences are not hitting them anyway. Yeah, tough life for BVB supporters, tell me, do you know any of them willing to trade their current situationo with a half sold out Westfalenstadion, and 30.000 specatotrs sitting there with crowd clappers? Is that what's meant with the slogan "Echte Liebe"?

Sorry that I induced your wrath.

 

[Yannik]

I know.



Then they should finally get real and demand their clubs to stop external funding entirely and go watch them play in the 4th division a few years from now. Or would this be too inconvenient for them, perhaps; having to actually back up their words instead of taking the pseudo-ethic approach. These people are hypocrites: If one is truly opposed to the commercialism in football, go watch amateur football (Which btw. everyone should do, because it's awesome in Germany and these clubs actually do need all the support they can get)

They should also contemplate that their cheap tickets are subsidized by VIP-Area Klatschpappe fans, which they despise so much. And yes, I'm totally paraphrasing Hoeneß here.

To be perfectly honest, I don't find 50+1 to be holy, but I don't want a completely commercialized an foreign/company owned league either. I aprreciate fan owned teams. The ultra romantic stance of some fans is a bit annoying to me aswell, but there's also a point behind it. The protest against ticket pricing is the perfect example. Not like 25eur would be a lot for them, the problem is that when noone says something then the tickets will suddenly cost 30eur a month later. The fanclubs have a pro-active stance against this, same reason why everyone is against the introduction of just a few (I think it was only 5) monday games a season. Because it will probably not stay at only 5 in the future. You see where this is going? It's not really possible to sensibilize this, it's opening a door to seomthing and we don'T know what's coming through it.

I'm fine, [MENTION=13941]Luftstalag14[/MENTION] thank you.

 

[Luftstalag14]

BVB lost to Frankfurt away, 1:0 and Bayern beat FC Ingolstadt 1:2, Bayern became the first team that won 4 consecutive Buli titles.

 

[Morten]

BVB lost to Frankfurt away, 1:0 and Bayern beat FC Ingolstadt 1:2, Bayern became the first team that won 4 consecutive Buli titles.

Lets also hope its the first team who has won 4 consecutive titles that will go title-less for 4 consecutive seasons.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Lets also hope its the first team who has won 4 consecutive titles that will go title-less for 4 consecutive seasons.

Come on, no kidding please.

 

[Luftstalag14]

RB Leipzig successfully promoted to 1.Bundesliga and TSV 1860 looks safe so far from being relegated.