Bundesliga

[Luftstalag14]

Not sure about the quality but BL is clearly more attractive to watch atm. I'd even put it before EPL.

To me Bundesliga is always more attractive to watch than the EPL, if I wanted to watch rugby I'd watch the EPL. The problem is it is an one-horse league and Bayern can regularly prick the best the players from their direct competitors, unlike any other top league bar perhaps Ligue 1.

That league really needs like a club like Leipzig (not Dortmund) who is financially strong and ambitious enough to build a long term project to make it more appealing.

 

[serghei]

To me Bundesliga is always more attractive to watch than the EPL, if I wanted to watch rugby I'd watch the EPL. The problem is it is an one-horse league and Bayern can regularly prick the best the players from their direct competitors, unlike any other top league bar perhaps Ligue 1.

That league really needs like a club like Leipzig (not Dortmund) who is financially strong and ambitious enough to build a long term project to make it more appealing.

Bundesliga is lacking a strong club that would challenge Bayern. Something to challenge Bayern's firm hold. Dortmund and Leipzig, with all due respect, do not have this aura of a club that is primarily interested in being a powerhouse force. They are "nice" underdogs that play very nice football. I like to watch them when they are on on the telly. They aren't killers like Barca/Madrid/Bayern aim to be (do not confuse huge clubs struggling, with smaller clubs thriving while never aiming for the very top, it's a huge difference in assumed mission and ambitions), or like Atletico recently aspire.

Look at Dortmund and Haaland. Perfect example. Dortmund is like a shop that is about to be opened soon to take bids. Nobody in the world is even contemplating the possibility that Haaland is not going to move, that he will not treat Dortmund as the bouncing stone to a bigger club.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Bundesliga is lacking a strong club that would challenge Bayern. Something to challenge Bayern's firm hold. Dortmund and Leipzig, with all due respect, do not have this aura of a club that is primarily interested in being a powerhouse force. They are "nice" underdogs that play very nice football. I like to watch them when they are on on the telly. They aren't killers like Barca/Madrid/Bayern aim to be (do not confuse huge clubs struggling, with smaller clubs thriving while never aiming for the very top, it's a huge difference in assumed mission and ambitions), or like Atletico recently aspire.

Look at Dortmund and Haaland. Perfect example. Dortmund is like a shop that is about to be opened soon to take bids. Nobody in the world is even contemplating the possibility that Haaland is not going to move, that he will not treat Dortmund as the bouncing stone to a bigger club.

Agreed on Dortmund, they are not a long term challenger to Bayern because their business model is scouting young players with good potential, buy them cheap and sell them high and use the money to replenish their squad and keep the cycle going and going. They would be more than happy to sell their best players to Bayern or foreign clubs. They have profit and stocks to worry about.

I think Leipzig is different. Of course they are not there yet, they need to win a few trophies first but I think their owners are ambitious enough to build a club to be a long term challenger to Bayern.

 

[serghei]

Agreed on Dortmund, they are not a long term challenger to Bayern because their business model is scouting young players with good potential, buy them cheap and sell them high and use the money to replenish their squad and keep the cycle going and going. They would be more than happy to sell their best players to Bayern or foreign clubs. They have profit and stocks to worry about.

I think Leipzig is different. Of course they are not there yet, they need to win a few trophies first but I think their owners are ambitious enough to become a long term challenger to Bayern.

Leipzig is a bit different maybe on the money side, but they lack even more things than Dortmund, who are still a historic club with a deep relevance in German football going back many decades. Leipzig is even less polished. It will take a lot of time for them to shake off this thing.

The only way Bayern has problems in Germany is when one of these underdogs form a great side that goes all the way, and somehow Bayern have one of their lesser teams. And even then, it takes 2-3 years until that team it's dispersed and sold, probably either to Bayern (Lewa, Gotze, Hummels, probably 3 best players of Dortmund at the time, except for Reus), or to big-money teams from outside (Gundogan to City, even Mikitaryan, or Kagawa before him, also in EPL, or Dembele to Barca) when Bayern are hesitant to bring out the cash and meet the asking price (and when they can't get them for free or at a discount price, because they are in the last year lol).

The new candidates for this fate are Haaland, Sancho and probably more players as they will break out, who knows. Of course, they will try to win titles, but the structure of the club is to make big profits and play nice, positive football with a cool vibe. If no titles are won, they will easily get past it as if it's no biggie. That's not what a powerhouse club is about.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Leipzig is a bit different maybe on the money side, but they lack even more things than Dortmund, who are still a historic club with a deep relevance in German football going back many decades. Leipzig is even less polished. It will take a lot of time for them to shake off this thing.

The only way Bayern has problems in Germany is when one of these underdogs form a great side that goes all the way, and somehow Bayern have one of their lesser teams. And even then, it takes 2-3 years until that team it's dispersed and sold, probably either to Bayern (Lewa, Gotze, Hummels, probably 3 best players of Dortmund at the time, except for Reus), or to big-money teams from outside (Gundogan to City, even Mikitaryan, or Kagawa before him, also in EPL, or Dembele to Barca) when Bayern are hesitant to bring out the cash and meet the asking price.

The new candidates for this fate are Haaland, Sancho and probably more players as they will break out, who knows. Of course, they will try to win titles, but the structure of the club is to make big profits and play nice, positive football with a cool vibe. If no titles are won, they will easily get past it as if it's no biggie. That's not what a powerhouse club is about.

Yeah, Leipzig is far from from being established since they were just promoted to the top tier a few years ago and they still experience a lot of hate because of their ownership structure. It will take a long time for them to be considered a regular player and serious challenger to Bayern of course.

I think the landscape in Bundesliga will not change unless 50+1 is abolished and that is not happening any time soon.

 

[serghei]

Yeah, Leipzig is far from from being established since they were just promoted to the top tier a few years ago and they still experience a lot of hate because of their ownership structure. It will take a long time for them to be considered a regular player and serious challenger to Bayern of course.

I think the landscape in Bundesliga will not change unless 50+1 is abolished and that is not happening any time soon.

Let me guess, Bayern is a big defender of the 50+1? To protect themselves from a sugar daddy club challenging their spot?

 

[Luftstalag14]

Let me guess, Bayern is a big defender of the 50+1? To protect themselves from a sugar daddy club challenging their spot?

Actually no, Bayern is a proponent of abolishing 50+1, I think both Hoeness and KHR had spoken against it a few times before. They want their league to be more interesting too, it would be in their interests.

 

[Yannik]

Let me guess, Bayern is a big defender of the 50+1? To protect themselves from a sugar daddy club challenging their spot?

You would be wrong. Bayern is open to a referendum challenging 50+1. It's the smaller clubs that don't want owners involved in the BuLi.

 

[messi2140]

Yeah, Leipzig is far from from being established since they were just promoted to the top tier a few years ago and they still experience a lot of hate because of their ownership structure. It will take a long time for them to be considered a regular player and serious challenger to Bayern of course.

I think the landscape in Bundesliga will not change unless 50+1 is abolished and that is not happening any time soon.

Which I don't understand. You would think the other German teams would love their league to be more competitive. It's like they love being domesticated by Bayern.

 

[KingLeo10]

All I know is Bayern are more despicable than Real Madrid.

 

[Yannik]

Which I don't understand. You would think the other German teams would love their league to be more competitive. It's like they love being domesticated by Bayern.

It's not about domestic competition, they simply want to remain sovereign instead of living and dying by the hands of a billionaire.

 

[messi2140]

It's not about domestic competition, they simply don't want to live and die by the hands of a billionaire.

Well , hope they enjoy being the Bayern B , C , D and E for the foreseeable future.

 

[KingLeo10]

It's not about domestic competition, they simply don't want to live and die by the hands of a billionaire.

Yes, they want to live and die at the hands of those billionaire owners/sponsors like Volkswagen Wolfsburg.

 

[Yannik]

Yes, they want to live and die at the hands of those billionaire sponsors like Volkswagen Wolfsburg.

But that's exactly why they don't want it.
German fans and clubs oppose Wolfsburg and Bayer. Not to mention RB.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Which I don't understand. You would think the other German teams would love their league to be more competitive. It's like they love being domesticated by Bayern.

I think it is because of their obsession with football being an "amateur sport" in spirit and their dislike of big money from rich owners and corporations taking ownership of clubs. In the case of Leipzig it is quite unprecedented, essentially it is a club built from scratch by Red Bulls and exclusively owned by Red Bull and I believe their members are in single digit, like less then 10 people?