Camp Nou

[Messigician]

Because the first project became obsolete in many aspects. Members approved 2014 a way too small budget and too short timeframe project. The new espai is a gigantic project that went through many remodellings and therefore also new estimations how much it's gonna cost. The city Barcelona also needs a lot of time to approve any project.
With that in mind, Bartomeu pushed the project to the next administration because he knew anyways his time as president ended. Laporta's board had to plan the entire project from the beginning.
You think Goldman&Sachs just give you 1.5 billion Euro? There are more than 100 ! investors in that sum, you know how much negotiation is needed for that? There had to be a new member referendum with new cost and timeframe. When everything was settled, Barca needed to re-negotiate with the City again, because they only approved the obsolete 2014 plan, not the new one. That also took ages.

And then there are people (like you) who still don't understand that the budget for the stadium and the budget for transfers are 2 totally different things. Barcelona pays their stadium entirely with the additional income the Nou Camp Nou gonna generate. It has absolutely nothing to do with the transfer policy. We can either make 10 billion in transfers, or lose 10 billion. It's has absolutely zero impact on financing the stadium. Its financing is contractually regulated between Barca and over 100 investors through Goldmann&Sachs.

Small correction Laporta said they just used Bartomeu’s existing plans and sent them for approval by the socios rather than making them from scratch

 

[jamrock]

Because the first project became obsolete in many aspects. Members approved 2014 a way too small budget and too short timeframe project. The new espai is a gigantic project that went through many remodellings and therefore also new estimations how much it's gonna cost. The city Barcelona also needs a lot of time to approve any project.
With that in mind, Bartomeu pushed the project to the next administration because he knew anyways his time as president ended. Laporta's board had to plan the entire project from the beginning.
You think Goldman&Sachs just give you 1.5 billion Euro? There are more than 100 ! investors in that sum, you know how much negotiation is needed to that? There had to be a new member referendum with new cost and timeframe. When everything was settled, Barca needed to re-negotiate with the City again, because they only approved the obsolete 2014 plan, not the new one. That also took ages.

And then there are people (like you) who still don't understand that the budget for the stadium and the budget for transfers are 2 totally different things. Barcelona pays their stadium entirely with the additional income the Nou Camp Nou gonna generate. It has absolutely nothing to do with the transfer policy. We can either make 10 billion in transfers, or lose 10 billion. It's has absolutely zero impact on financing the stadium. Its financing is contractually regulated between Barca and over 100 investors through Goldmann&Sachs.

A lot of word salad here without addressing my main point, If rosell and barto wanted to/were competent. They could have

1) just built the foster design, which was just a remodel of the stadium, which would have cost no more than 500m back then, original estimate was something like 200-300m if memory serves me right, but they wanted to do everything differently from laporta.

If years later then wanted to redevelop the area around the camp nou they could have done that for at most another 500m, if that. which would Have seen us saved 100's of millions.

2) If they wanted their own designed, it was done and dusted years ago and like Khalid said could have been started as far back as 17/18, again it a much better financial climate.

But laporta managed to finance a 1.3-1.5B project when we are on our knees, such is the level of their incompetence.

We BORROWED 500m to sign 3 duds, BORROW enough money to leave us in 1 billion dollars worth of debt, fuck you talking about transfer budget, the point is all that BORROW money could have been spent more productively, instead of on 3 bums.

they could have borrowed said money and used it to build the foster design or get the new project underway and get new loans as the project went along to finish it, like Perez did.

So you just basically said a whole bunch of nothing, next time just think before you speak and you want sound like a dumb ass or better yet think before you reply to jamrock, because I give L with ease.

10 years they had to either build the foster design or start their own, they did neither, while real started and finish theirs, since we started our original planning.

 

[Messigician]

Bartomeu’s project chief Mannarelli left in the May, after nine years as the club’s director of real estate. The following month, the day-to-day management of Espai Barca became the responsibility of Ramon Ramirez.

Ramirez joined from Spanish engineers IDOM, who built Athletic Bilbao’s award-winning new San Mames stadium in the previous decade, and had worked on the Camp Nou project for Bartomeu’s board. Through the 2021-22 season, he worked with his former colleagues to incorporate the changes required by Laporta into the existing plans.

 

[Messigician]

“So Laporta’s new ‘improved’ stadium was now expected to generate €30million less each year than Bartomeu’s original version. The Athleticasked Legends and the club to explain this shortfall. Neither commented.”

Tbh looks like laporta’s changes are a downgrade lol

A report in Spanish newspaper El Confidencial alleged Barcelona changed the criteria for the tender process, eliminating some pre-qualification requirements, before inviting Limak to bid. The Athletic has been told, by sources who worked on the Bartomeu project, that, under the criteria his board wanted, the Turkish company would not have qualified to even make a bid.

Barcelona have denied making specific changes with Limak in mind, but did say criteria had been changed to “make the process more competitive”, again arguing that it was in the club’s interest to find a partner willing to do the work quicker and for less money. The club said Limak passed a ‘pre-qualification phase’ that required it to show technical and financial credentials.

Meanwhile, the musical chairs of directors, executives and partners continued.

In early February, Barcelona revealed Nikken Sekkei was now officially the ‘Design Guardian’ of the new stadium. This was a creative way of announcing the Japanese firm’s move into a back-seat role, with its architects — who had spent eight years on the project — now leaving. Nikken Sekkei declined to comment when asked about this by The Athletic.

 

[DonAK]

It's 2024 and Messigician is still doing his Bartomeu schtick.

So boring.

 

[Loki]

A lot of word salad here without addressing my main point, If rosell and barto wanted to/were competent. They could have

1) just built the foster design, which was just a remodel of the stadium, which would have cost no more than 500m back then, original estimate was something like 200-300m if memory serves me right, but they wanted to do everything differently from laporta.

If years later then wanted to redevelop the area around the camp nou they could have done that for at most another 500m, if that. which would Have seen us saved 100's of millions.

2) If they wanted their own designed, it was done and dusted years ago and like Khalid said could have been started as far back as 17/18, again it a much better financial climate.

But laporta managed to finance a 1.3-1.5B project when we are on our knees, such is the level of their incompetence.

We BORROWED 500m to sign 3 duds, BORROW enough money to leave us in 1 billion dollars worth of debt, fuck you talking about transfer budget, the point is all that BORROW money could have been spent more productively, instead of on 3 bums.

they could have borrowed said money and used it to build the foster design or get the new project underway and get new loans as the project went along to finish it, like Perez did.

So you just basically said a whole bunch of nothing, next time just think before you speak and you want sound like a dumb ass or better yet think before you reply to jamrock, because I give L with ease.

10 years they had to either build the foster design or start their own, they did neither, while real started and finish theirs, since we started our original planning.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You showed it already with your statement the espai budget is dependent on the transfer budget.

If that's not enough, I can give you more examples. You talk about Rosell. Rosell resigned in January 2014, Bartomeu organized a referendum in May 2014 to approve the project. I point out, that May comes after January in the calender, so please keep Rosell out of your mouth in this topic. Or start with Gamper maybe.

The initial plan was to start in 2017. Covid started in 2019, so the project got delayed for 2 years until Covid hit. It's absolutely common to delay such a huge project with over a hundred investors, remodellings and new approvals in a timeframe of 2 years. Not great, not terrible. Then Covid hit. Barca got hit the hardest, since we depend on visitors and tourism more than any other club in the world.
Nobody knew when Covid gonna be over, when the tourism gonna restart again. Of course these plans lay on ice during the uncertain period. After that Laporta got voted in and I told you his timetable in the previous post. You may like them or not, but these are facts.

To your point 1) Are you an established international recognized architect and leader of a huge contruction company to tell people what could have been built earlier or later? Ridiculous how you overestimate yourself that you're having the knowledge to tell people how to build such a project.

2) You still keep linking the cost of the project with our finances and transfers. You either are too dumb to understand what I wrote about that, or you simply too stubborn to move from your point, no matter how wrong you are. Both reasons makes me wanna quit wasting my time on explaining facts to you, since you ignore them anyways.
I think I'll do that. Keep embarrassing yourself.

 

[jamrock]

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You showed it already with your statement the espai budget is dependent on the transfer budget.

If that's not enough, I can give you more examples. You talk about Rosell. Rosell resigned in January 2014, Bartomeu organized a referendum in May 2014 to approve the project. I point out, that May comes after January in the calender, so please keep Rosell out of your mouth in this topic. Or start with Gamper maybe.

The initial plan was to start in 2017. Covid started in 2019, so the project got delayed for 2 years. It's absolutely common to delay such a huge project with over a hundred investores, remodellings and new approvals in a timeframe of 2 years. Not great, not terrible. Then Covid hit. Barca got hit the hardest, since we depend on visitors and tourism more than any other club in the world.
Nobody knew when Covid gonna be over, when the tourism gonna restart again. Of course these plans lay on ice during the uncertain period. After that Laporta got voted in and I told you his timetable in the previous post. You may like them or not, but these are facts.

To your point 1) Are you an established international recognized architect and leader of a huge contruction company to tell people what could have been built earlier or later? Ridiculous how you overestimate yourself that you're having the knowledge to tell people how to build such a project.

2) You still keep linking the cost of the project with our finances and tranfers. You either are too dumb to understand what I wrote about that, or you simply too stubborn to move from your point, no matter how wrong you are. Both reasons make me wanna quit wasting my time on explaining facts to you.
I think I'll do that. Keep embarrassing yourself.

More word salad from you.

You're talking about transfer Budget, did we or did we not use a loan to finance half a billion dollars to sign those 3?, yes.

Did we add over 1 billion dollars in debt under barto? Yes.

Would the club have been better off if instead of using those BORROWED money to sign players, they instead focused on getting learners in place to Borrow money from to Either build the original plan or their new one? Yes.

Did Laporta manager to find the financing to build the new stadium, in a covid climate with high interest rates, Yes.

Did barto have multiple years to do the same and failed? Yes.

Could we have saved 100's of millions, in interest payment and construction cost if barto & ROSELL weren't incompetent corrupt pieces of shit and did a better job re the construction of the new camp nou, foster design or the new design? yes

Or your and idiot? Yes.

 

[khaled_a_d]

There is no such a thing as Stadium doesn't relate to transfers tbh.
Yes, you can go around it with accounting tricks that was done, but at the end they will all come down to clubs financial ability. Way of financing doesn't mean transfers are irreleveant.
Laporta joined the club in March 2021 and the work started almost 2 years after he joined.
Bartou could have started it if he wanted, and the Pandemic was always the perfect timing for construction.
The points you made Loki are all great, but it the end there was undeniable procrastination from the previous board. An argument can be made that Laporta's first term was also a missed chance to do it early.

 

[serghei]

I believe the club is gonna come back to full financial power once the stadium gets finished.

 

[jamrock]

I believe the club is gonna come back to full financial power once the stadium gets finished.

It's gonna help a lot for sure with the increase income.

Another reason it should have been done. years ago, that's another advantage Madrid will have over use for another 3 years.

They are well underway to generating over a billion dollars in income.

I think once we get these wages of players that are not even playing for the club off your books, It will be huge for us.

 

[Windhook]

Rosell & Barto won just 2 CLs in a decade combined, with some of the best players on the planet. Stockholm syndrome.

 

[Alik]

Also, Covid only started to seem like a serious thing in early 2020, not 2019.

 

[Loki]

There is no such a thing as Stadium doesn't relate to transfers tbh.

that's simply wrong. You can state that 10 times and it's 10 times wrong. the club doesn't operate like a gas station around the corner. There are budgets for each area at the start of the financial year and both are completely independent from each other. The board said it several times, that they agreed with the investors that the club will pay the money back only with the ADDITIONAL income of the new stadium. First payment is due when the stadium is finished and starts to generate income.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the budget for transfers.

 

[DonAK]

Real Madrid started their renovation full speed around winter 2019 and the next five transfer windows spent 31m in total. Then next two windows they spent 80m in Tchouameni whilst they sold players for 90m.

Arsenal went years barely spending money while and some time after moving into Emirates Stadium.

The current board have unofficially claimed that they will return to normal after moving into the renovated Camp Nou with the added income helping or solving their La Liga FFP issues. So unless you got an Emirati billionaire or an oligarch, it does seem like stadium renovation/redevelopments do correlate to the club's transfer spending.

 

[jamrock]

I just came across the video the club released re the stadium on YouTube 2 years ago, (Google is definitely tracking my key strokes lol).

But two things came to mind while watching it.

1) the club really believed Fati was the next big thing coming out of Barcelona the," ansu, ansu" goal celebration towards the end says it all, lol. Pity it didn't work out.

2) all those who mentioned we should have had a covered roof, they literally said back then the palau would be used for those type of events.

Every few events will need a 100k stadium with a cover roof for an event, the 15k palau will be perfect for most of those kind of events.