Camp Nou

[Luftstalag14]

I'm sure the socios had a little black market going on, but this is a simplification done by the media. It wasn't only the socios.. In truth it was never hard to get tickets for the neutral and away ends to begin with.
UEFA doesn't allow tickets to be sold to nationals of the visiting team, but they leave it to the home team to enforce this rule. And Barca does that by merely checing the credit card origin that tickets are bought with.

I asked my friend who travelled with a group on how they managed to get in. She said that they just applied for Spanish credit cards and then bought the tickets online normally for listed prices. This was apparently known as a "Plan B" among the entire Frankfurt Ultra scene for a longer time, whereas Barca seemed oblivious to this because normally there's never such a large amount of people that abuse these security holes.

Now there were of course also many cules near the Stadium selling their tickets, but this alone could have never amounted to over 25.000 home/neutral tickets sold that way.
nd Frankfurt fans are not exactly the demographic that is able to comfortably pay 300-500€ for a blackmarket ticket after already paying for the travel. 90% of them are your averge poor millennial, just more organized and determined..

Now you mentioned it, I think the fact that Frankfurt fans took up entire blocks and sections of Camp Nou, not just some individual seats scattered around the stadium here and there might indicate they bought their tickets en mass from somewhere other than some socis and Barca fans online or outside the stadium (never saw many selling tickets outside Camp Nou anyways).

Do you think Barca could have done anything to prevent those Frankfurt fans of applying for Spanish credit cards and using them to buy tickets? I don’t know, checking the billing address of all credit cards used to buy tickets, if it is a German one, decline the sales?

Before the game I almost thought some of the measures the club took was beyond necessary and could be considered discriminatory, but I guess after this fiasco, the club will have to try everything, and I have no idea what everything is, to prevent this from happening again.

 

[Luftstalag14]

MD spoke of all sort of abusive behavior by the Frankfurt fans at Camp Nou, especially in the presence of children. Truly despicable, we must not let this happen ever again.

 

[ajnotkeith]

I'm sure the socios had a little black market going on, but this is a simplification done by the media. It wasn't only the socios.. In truth it was never hard to get tickets for the neutral and away ends to begin with.
UEFA doesn't allow tickets to be sold to nationals of the visiting team, but they leave it to the home team to enforce this rule. And Barca does that by merely checing the credit card origin that tickets are bought with.

I asked my friend who travelled with a group on how they managed to get in. She said that they just applied for Spanish credit cards and then bought the tickets online normally for listed prices. This was apparently known as a "Plan B" among the entire Frankfurt Ultra scene for a longer time, whereas Barca seemed oblivious to this because normally there's never such a large amount of people that abuse these security holes.

Now there were of course also many cules near the Stadium selling their tickets, but this alone could have never amounted to over 25.000 home/neutral tickets sold that way.
nd Frankfurt fans are not exactly the demographic that is able to comfortably pay 300-500? for a blackmarket ticket after already paying for the travel. 90% of them are your averge poor millennial, just more organized and determined..

Gerard Romero (extremely reliable this year with a ton of exclusives)said that there were orders from the club to sell as many tickets as possible regardless of who they went to.

So it looks like there doesn't need to be an investigation, the club encouraged it themselves.

 

[te amo barca]

Had better support in Saudi Arabia than at the Camp Nou yesterday

 

[clemente]

Frankfurt have real fans, it's no problem for people from a rich country to travel 2h by flight and support their team.
We just have bunch of tourists and old socios who don't even watch games anymore...
It's still surprising but was gonna happen sooner or later.

 

[Yannik]

Do you think Barca could have done anything to prevent those Frankfurt fans of applying for Spanish credit cards and using them to buy tickets?

well you can't exactly prevent someone from going to Santander and applying for a free credit card.
They can do ID checks at the entrances. But this is a rather big and expensive effort, so its not really done in "normal games". You'd reserve that with derbies where you expect chaos and violence. Some countries like Belgium also like to simply issue travel bans and sell no tickets to away fans at all.

MD spoke of all sort of abusive behavior by the Frankfurt fans at Camp Nou, especially in the presence of children. Truly despicable, we must not let this happen ever again.

I don't know what Frankfurt fans did and I'm sure there were some stepping out of line. But I have so far not seen videos showing much violence here and I'd take some twitter stories with a salt of grain, there were many people in the camp nou supposedly annoyed by the behaviour of the Frankfurt fans, but 90% of the examples I have read just went along the lines of Frankfurt fans "standing in the seating sections" and the resulting argument that ensured between them and the Barca fans who'd follow the standing rules correctly.

I do know Frankfurt fans, and I am never surprised to hear when they get in trouble. And a German away game is never truely peaceful. Lots of littering and drunkness. But while some stories of away fans stepping out of line are probably true, I believe many of them are just results of an unexpected culture shock they didnt ask for. Some people were in the same block with Ultras for the first time in their life. They probably felt endangered and a bit uncomfortable and I can't blame them.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Gerard Romero (extremely reliable this year with a ton of exclusives)said that there were orders from the club to sell as many tickets as possible regardless of who they went to.

So it looks like there doesn't need to be an investigation, the club encouraged it themselves.

I am not sure about that, as they closed the ticket sales windows at Camp Nou yesterday morning, which typically are open during game day (if there are still tickets left to be sold).

 

[Luftstalag14]

well you can't exactly prevent someone from going to Santander and applying for a free credit card.
They can do ID checks at the entrances. But this is a rather big and expensive effort, so its not really done in "normal games". You'd reserve that with derbies where you expect chaos and violence. Some countries like Belgium also like to simply issue travel bans and sell no tickets to away fans at all.

You mean checking ID at the stadium entrance and if they are German, don't let them in? There would have been an outcry and rightfully so if they had done that. Isn't that blatant discrimination and profiling? Not to mention how do you distinguish those 5000 Frankfurt fans who legally obtained their allotted tickets from the others? Not feasible at all. Not to mention how it would have bogged down how long it took to enter Camp Nou for everybody.

I have been to many different stadiums around Europe (including Germany) and not once I have seen any club checking IDs. All of them simply scanned the ticket and that was it.

I don't know what Frankfurt fans did and I'm sure there were some stepping out of line. But I have so far not seen videos showing much violence here and I'd take some twitter stories with a salt of grain, there were many people in the camp nou supposedly annoyed by the behaviour of the Frankfurt fans, but 90% of the examples I have read just went along the lines of Frankfurt fans "standing in the seating sections" and the resulting argument that ensured between them and the Barca fans who'd follow the standing rules correctly.

I do know Frankfurt fans, and I am never surprised to hear when they get in trouble. And a German away game is never truely peaceful. Lots of littering and drunkness. But while some stories of away fans stepping out of line are true, I believe many of them are just greatly exaggerated non-stories. Some people were in the same block with Ultras for the first time in their life. They probably felt endangered and a bit uncomfortable and I can't blame them.

Yeah, I am sure if it was a minority of fans but if they did anything, they stood out. I think being surrounded by 30K or so of away fans at your own stadium chanting, shouting and whistling at your own team and players is an intimidating experience for many. Some were reportedly drunk, smoking in sections where they were not supposed to smoke etc.

I have seen videos of Frankfurt fans putting stickers to cover up 'FC Barcelona" letters on signs outside Camp Nou etc., certainly wasn't pleasant scene for me to watch, personally.

 

[Luftstalag14]

I guess that is part of being EU for you. Easily obtain a foreign credit card. I think if one wants, they can just use this approach to pull another "Frankfurt fans at Camp Nou" fiasco in the future at any European stadium if the home club still had ticket available to be sold. I read many EPL clubs don't even sell tickets to non-members.

 

[Yannik]

Isn't that blatant discrimination and profiling?

That's actually what UEFA tells the clubs to do. Home and neutral ends are not supposed to be given to nationals of the opposing team.
Barca basically made sure they'll not sell those tickets to German buyers, distuingishing them by their credit cards and IP. But both is circumventable. ID checks on the other hand are difficult to beat.

Not to mention how do you distinguish those 5000 Frankfurt fans who legally obtained their allotted tickets from the others?

Well for once the 5.000 would line up at the entrance for their designated away block. You'd check IDs at all the other ends.

Not feasible at all. Not to mention how it would have bogged down how long it took to enter Camp Nou for everybody.

I have been to many different stadiums around Europe (including Germany) and not once I have seen any club checking IDs. All of them simply scanned the ticket and that was it.

Yes, indeed. It's rather radical and not really feasible to do that for normal matchdays. It's why I said, they reserve these measures exclusively for derbies when the local government or policie asks for extra measures. It happened here in Hannover for example when we play Braunschweig. I would not recommend this at all, I only mentioned it as a response to your question how this could be prevented.

 

[Luftstalag14]

That's actually what UEFA tells the clubs to do. Home and neutral ends are not supposed to be given to nationals of the opposing team.
Barca basically made sure they'll not sell those tickets to German buyers, distuingishing them by their credit cards and IP. But both is circumventable. ID checks on the other hand are difficult to beat.



Well for once the 5.000 would line up at the entrance for their designated away block. You'd check IDs at all the other ends.



Yes, indeed. It's rather radical and not really feasible to do that for normal matchdays. It's why I said, they reserve these measures exclusively for derbies when the local government or policie asks for extra measures. It happened here in Hannover for example when we play Braunschweig. I would not recommend this at all, I only mentioned it as a response to your question how this could be prevented.

Got it. I think those extreme measures, even recommended by UEFA are not feasible and reasonable at all. It is not right to not allow any away fans to sit in the home or neutral stands in my opinion, also strictly basing that on nationality alone is very problematic, to say the least. For example there are Barca socis and Penya members who are German (we actually have a Penya in Frankfurt, for that matter), how do you not allow them to be in the home blocks, simply because they are holding a German passport? You send them to the away stands and force them to be with a bunch of Frankfurt fans?

 

[DonAK]

Got it. I think those extreme measures, even recommended by UEFA are not feasible and reasonable at all. It is not right to not allow any away fans to sit in the home or neutral stands in my opinion, also strictly basing that on nationality alone is very problematic, to say the least. For example there are Barca socis and Penya members who are German (we actually have a Penya in Frankfurt, for that matter), how do you not allow them to be in the home blocks, simply because they are holding a German passport? You send them to the away stands and force them to be with a bunch of Frankfurt fans?

They'll be able to buy tickets from the official channels.

 

[Luftstalag14]

They'll be able to buy tickets from the official channels.

I know, but Yannik was talking about checking IDs at Camp Nou. Valid ticket holders with the opposing team's nationality should not be allowed in the home stands, per UEFA. Unreasonable rule.

 

[DonAK]

I know, but Yannik was talking about checking IDs at Camp Nou. Valid ticket holders with the opposing team's nationality should not be allowed in the home stands, per UEFA. Unreasonable rule.

Like 80% of our capacity are for season ticket holders. First measure should be to get them to either come to games or gtfo and go at the back of the line.

We don't need season ticket holders that don't attend games. Introduce strict attendance rules. This wouldn't be an issue if those guys would attend games in the first place.

 

[Yannik]

Laporta: "There are two irregularities here, both in the tickets sold in the third tier, which ended up in the hands of Germans, as well as part of the season tickets that also went to rival fans. The club is not to blame for what happened. Now, we are responsible, because we are the ones in charge of organizing the match. Those who know me know that I take responsibility and take action, and we will take action."

"We put 34,440 tickets on sale. Barcelonistas should know that we have these tickets because there are season ticket holders who are on leave. We put these tickets on sale with restrictions: they could not be bought with German credit cards or German IPs.
We set all the restrictions we could, as has been done for the last six seasons. These tickets were located in the third tier, which was all white. These 34,440 tickets unfortunately and irregularly ended up in the hands of Germans. Of the 37,746 season ticket holders' cards that were registered at the stadium, many also ended up in the hands of German fans."

"What I can already announce is that in international competitions tickets will be nominative. It's a measure we didn't want to take because it inconveniences the members who have a normal and ordinary attitude, who are the vast majority, but we have no choice now. We never want what happened at the stadium to happen again."


[MENTION=13941]Luftstalag14[/MENTION] what I understand here is that "nominative" means you will indeed have personalized tickets and ID cards for int. games in the future.