Champions League 2013/2014

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voodoomaster

Guest
I know. I agree that Possession football isn't dead.
Against most of the Spanish teams and against most of European teams it is still good enough.

But I am happy that some other fans also see that it is dead against top teams who parks a bus.
Even the Barca from 2009 would have problems today because top teams today play better against Tiki-Taka then in 2009.

So, we shouldn't stop playing Tiki-Taka. We should play it in 90% of matches.
But against Real, Atletico, Chelsea, Bayern and other teams, we will lose in 2 matches.

Rijkaard broke Mourinho's Chelsea 2006 with some new tricks. He didn't play (all out attack) Possession football against Chelsea in 2006' (because he was "killed" on counterattacks in 2005, 4:2 at Stamford Bridge).
He played more physical midfield with Edmilson, Marquez, Van Bommel. And he gave some Possession to Chelsea.

Basically, he gave the ball to them and then they had to open slightly and they had to ruin their bus (since they had the ball). Then we had more spaces and scored Goals from semi-counterattacks.

Something like that (or some new tricks) should be done in the future. Playing how we played in the last 2-3 Seasons is not the way to go anymore in semifinals of CL against parked buses. Our current style is a road to ruin against any stronger team. (We can't score, and we will almost surely always concede 1 or 2 from counter-attacks)

Inter was extremely lucky to beat us, Chelsea Even more in 2012. Against Bayern we were terrible and had declined hugely. Its absolutely possible to beat this real with pep style tiki taka - remember that his records away in europe is weak and that Bayern in general was average(ribery especially). A In-form Bayern would have won this game. And dont only remember di Maria and ronaldos misses, also remember robbens and goetzes.
 

dakt

Active member
LOL They should pass on the Bundesliga title 13/14 to Real Madrid if they win the semis. Schalke, Dortmund, Bayern.

LOL @ people saying Real Madrid parked the bus. Bayern played EXACTLY like that against us last season. Except they took their chances (and some more: irregular goals and battered us on corner kicks in the air). Even the formation was the same: 4-4-2 and Ribery turning into additional leftback.

Wrong. Bayern beat us mostly because we had/have bad defense, we play open and most of the players were fed up at that point...in fact, many more reasons. And they would beat us today also for the very same reasons.
Real won b/c they parked bus and b/c they took few of their chances.
 

dakt

Active member
I got new tactics...far better then tiki-taka. Park a bus every single game and just wait for penalties. So train your team to play defense only, and excessive penalties training.
 

Lomar1o

Active member
They parked a f... bus! There's no strategy against such football.
Look what ATM did to us in the first game....ATM barley had chances, managed to shoot one ball and got lucky to score. Enough to win.

yes there is. it's called counter attacks. you don't play in their half the whole game, you make them come to your side and then counter. also a very good way of neutralizing a bus is stretching the fullbacks to the farthest side of the wings they are defending. it's a matter of 2 or 3 quick passes almost from the corner flag to the edge of the box. everytime a winger has a ball bus parkers mark that winger with two players, the farther he goes, the farther they are isolated from the pack in the box. there is space to exploit. but some people are too stubborn and continue crossing instead of quick passing. last year's bayern would've done exactly that.
 

ZenI

Professor Balthazar
OK, I understand that Bayern had an easy ride in Bundesliga - but I haven't been convinced by them in CL at all. The team that destroyed us last year is gone, Pep have destroyed them. Same old possession/tika-taka shit, 50 of Bayerns passes were worth much less than 5 of Madrids. I honestly think Bayern won't turn this around and Real will not only go through the semis but win the CL. Bayern have turned into the team they demolished last year - think about it, Xavi complaining about the pitch and how they had 70% possession, same shit different team.
 
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Birdy

Senior Member
1) How hilarious to say that Pep destroyed football.. The guy that revolutionized football, that introduced a new era, a new philosophy, that shook fundamentally all concepts of how to play until then, and above all did all this with STYLE, with attacking football and flair, with proactive approach, with the desire to impose his style, to dominate the opponent..
Pep true team in only Barca. He could remain a king here forever, a new Ferguson for Catalonia, growing one generation of players after another untill getting 65 and winning numerous titles and CLs.. He was the only man who could evolve tiki-taka in a new formation and fashion with core principles remaining.
His decision is pretty hard. You could see today how hard it is to instill tiki-taka in a team that is not hard-wired in it, like Barca is..
But, i understand that he is young and wants more experiences and proving himself elsewhere. Some day he will understand his mistake.


2) Yes, Mourinho has NO football identity or philosophy.
His philosophy is win at any cost, and his name above everything, and of course the easiest way to do it is by defending.
Old and known (non)philosophy, but no one will remember him for any school of football, no ideas he contributed to the history of the sport. They will remember him only for his record and his clown-like statements and games.. He is not Herrera even in his utmost fantasies. Herrera introduced Catenacio. What did Mourinho introduced in his 10-12 year spell at top-level football?
Only mind-games, how to play with the media, how to inflate your ego, how to feel bigger than your club, how to disrespect football history and of course Maciavelianism all the way..
Mourinho was so unhappy at Real Madrid, bcz the club was bigger than him and its tradition prevented him from applying his miserable philosophy. The history of the club didnt allow to prioritize win at any cost over some principles. The result was an in-between solution that was his demise in the club. Mourinho was a complete failure at Madrid. Now he has returned to a team where he can feel bigger than the club again..

He was the second to introduce a way to react against the massive and invincible tiki-taka by presenting a team happy to spend the whole game in its own box (Inter 2010). Hiddink 2009 was the first with the same ingredients, but Mourinho performed it better. We show the same story all over again with Chelsea and Di matteo in 2012..
One thing i really appreciated in Ferguson is that he rejected putting his team in the box both in 2009 and 2011 finals. He came out to play with his style (with variations maybe but with his style). He lost and in the end he said that we were playing against a better team. Fair and Honest.

But, no one should be naive enough to consider a method of denying playing as a method of winning tiki-taka. Of course not. Any new tactical variation becomes a novel method of playing football only if it can be applied to all the opponents indifferently and win them all..

Stealing a title is never the same as winning a title. True winning always goes hand in hand with imposing your style over the opponent.
This goes also to the many fools around that still advocate that every winner of a title, no matter how, is a deserved one.. Bullshit!
The fact that not all the winners are remembered gives the answer..


3) But indeed, beside Mourinho and his antics, we show a true team that was able to win tiki-taka not by rejecting any style and parking a bus inside the box, and this was of course Hyunkes' Bayern. Its a pitty both that Guardiola left Barca, Huynkes left Bayern, and guardiola is now at bayern..
We should have watched a real clash between them over 2-3 years time. A CL final in 2012 (which Barca might have won) and CL semi-finals in 2013 (which Bayern would have won as they did but with much less gap btw the teams).. Not bayern at its full blossom versus a disjoint barca or Barca in disguise as Bayern now which can only imitate the brutal force of Pep's team..
 
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ManusXavi

New member
Forgot to set Alarm. Slept through the whole flippen game! grrrr but wow Hala Madrid good effort today. Seen highlights I will watch match later.
I personally think it will be a 2-0 or 2-1 Victory to Bayern at home. I can't pick who will advance. This whole no Bayern away goal does a lot to both teams psychologically. Next week will be good. Go Atletico overall!!
 

Vapor

New member
1) How hilarious to say that Pep destroyed football.. The guy that revolutionized football, that introduced a new era, a new philosophy, that shook fundamentally all concepts of how to play until then, and above all did all this with STYLE, with attacking football and flair, with proactive approach, with the desire to impose his style, to dominate the opponent..
Pep true team in only Barca. He could remain a king here forever, a new Ferguson for Catalonia, growing one generation of players after another untill getting 65 and winning numerous titles and CLs.. He was the only man who could evolve tiki-taka in a new formation and fashion with core principles remaining.
His decision is pretty hard. You could see today how hard it is to instill tiki-taka in a team that is not hard-wired in it, like Barca is..
But, i understand that he is young and wants more experiences and proving himself elsewhere. Some day he will understand his mistake.


2) Yes, Mourinho has NO football identity or philosophy.
His philosophy is win at any cost, and his name above everything, and of course the easiest way to do it is by defending.
Old and known (non)philosophy, but no one will remember him for any school of football, no ideas he contributed to the history of the sport. They will remember him only for his record and his clown-like statements and games.. He is not Herrera even in his utmost fantasies. Herrera introduced Catenacio. What did Mourinho introduced in his 10-12 year spell at top-level football?
Only mind-games, how to play with the media, how to inflate your ego, how to feel bigger than your club, how to disrespect football history and of course Maciavelianism all the way..
Mourinho was so unhappy at Real Madrid, bcz the club was bigger than him and its tradition prevented him from applying his miserable philosophy. The history of the club didnt allow to prioritize win at any cost over some principles. The result was an in-between solution that was his demise in the club. Mourinho was a complete failure at Madrid. Now he has returned to a team where he can feel bigger than the club again..

He was the second to introduce a way to react against the massive and invincible tiki-taka by presenting a team happy to spend the whole game in its own box (Inter 2010). Hiddink 2009 was the first with the same ingredients, but Mourinho performed it better. We show the same story all over again with Chelsea and Di matteo in 2012..
One thing i really appreciated in Ferguson is that he rejected putting his team in the box both in 2009 and 2011 finals. He came out to play with his style (with variations maybe but with his style). He lost and in the end he said that we were playing against a better team. Fair and Honest.

But, no one should be naive enough to consider a method of denying playing as a method of winning tiki-taka. Of course not. Any new tactical variation becomes a novel method of playing football only if it can be applied to all the opponents indifferently and win them all..

Stealing a title is never the same as winning a title. True winning always goes hand in hand with imposing your style over the opponent.
This goes also to the many fools around that still advocate that every winner of a title, no matter how, is a deserved one.. Bullshit!
The fact that not all the winners are remembered gives the answer..


3) But indeed, beside Mourinho and his antics, we show a true team that was able to win tiki-taka not by rejecting any style and parking a bus inside the box, and this was of course Hyunkes' Bayern. Its a pitty both that Guardiola left Barca, Huynkes left Bayern, and guardiola is now at bayern..
We should have watched a real clash between them over 2-3 years time. A CL final in 2012 (which Barca might have won) and CL semi-finals in 2013 (which Bayern would have won as they did but with much less gap btw the teams).. Not bayern at its full blossom versus a disjoint barca or Barca in disguise as Bayern now which can only imitate the brutal force of Pep's team..
Great post. :beer2:
 

ManusXavi

New member
Real Madrid will be pumping that 'BBC' are in hot form and will all be starting next week. Varane should do ok if Pepe is out (how is he? I have heard nothing)
Is Isco going to be on the bench?
Bale vs Alaba will be good next week.
 
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