CL | 1/4 Final: FC Barcelona - FC Bayern Munich 2-8

[KingLeo10]

Here's 12/13 Barcelona in big games:

Barcelona 3-2 RM (Supercopa)
Barcelona 1-2 RM (Supercopa)
Barcelona 2-2 RM
Barcelona 1-2 RM
Barcelona 1-1 RM
Barcelona 1-3 RM
Barcelona 0-2 Milan
Barcelona 4-0 Milan
Barcelona 2-2 PSG
Barcelona 1-1 PSG
Barcelona 0-4 Bayern
Barcelona 0-3 Bayern

2 W in 12 games.

Here's 19/20 Barcelona in big games:

Barcelona 1-0 Atletico Madrid
Barcelona 0-0 Real Madrid
Barcelona 2-3 Atletico Madrid (Supercopa)
Barcelona 0-2 Real Madrid
Barcelona 2-2 Atletico Madrid
Barcelona 1-1 Napoli
Barcelona 3-1 Napoli

2 W in 7 games.

For 19/20, I'm not counting the 1 W, 1 D against Dortmund in group stages and 2 W v Inter in group stages. Those are "big opponents" but not high pressure games. 12/13 Barca had a lightweight group stage by comparison and even lost to Celtic, with the precise "brave" play and meaningless possession (~85%?) that got burned on counters.

As you can see, we score less but concede less too. This team is bang average by Barca standards but my point is that Barca 12/13 was utterly gash.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

12/13 team was better for the first leg against Bayern in the following ways:

- Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta midfield is better than whatever we are going to field on Friday.
- Sanchez/Villa > Current Suarez.
- Pedro > Griezmann.
- Pique > current Pique.
- Dani Alves > Semedo.
- Jordi Alba > Current Jordi Alba.

Fabregas and Adriano played in the second leg only. Montoya played a total of 3 minutes.

It was worse in the following ways:

- Current Messi is better than injured 12/13 Messi, maybe.
- Lenglet is better than Bartra.

That's it.

Maybe that Barca was arrogant. At least they were brave. This Barca is a tramautized Barca that couldn't even beat the worst Madrid in years. A Barca which doesn't even know what it's starting 11 is.

Xavi and Busi were terrible. Alves and Alba weren't also out of form. Pedro was done, Griezmann now is better. Even Iniesta who was by far the best midfield player wasnt on his real level. Fabregas Montoya were jokes. And the MOST important thing is that they were mentally down because of Tito's illness so THIS Barca is way better than 12/13 Barca imO.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Here's 12/13 Barcelona in big games:

Barcelona 3-2 RM
Barcelona 1-2 RM
Barcelona 2-2 RM
Barcelona 1-2 RM
Barcelona 1-1 RM
Barcelona 1-3 RM
Barcelona 0-2 Milan
Barcelona 4-0 Milan
Barcelona 2-2 PSG
Barcelona 1-1 PSG
Barcelona 0-4 Bayern
Barcelona 0-3 Bayern

2 W in 12 games.

Here's 19/20 Barcelona in big games:

Barcelona 1-0 Atletico Madrid
Barcelona 0-0 Real Madrid
Barcelona 2-3 Atletico Madrid
Barcelona 0-2 Real Madrid
Barcelona 2-2 Atletico Madrid
Barcelona 1-1 Napoli
Barcelona 3-1 Napoli

2 W in 7 games.

For 19/20, I'm not counting the 1 W, 1 D against Dortmund in group stages and 2 W v Inter in group stages. Those are "big opponents" but not high pressure games. 12/13 Barca had a lightweight group stage by comparison and even lost to Celtic, with the precise "brave" play and meaningless possession (~85%?) that got burned on counters.

As you can see, we score less but concede less too. This team is bang average by Barca standards but my point is that Barca 12/13 was utterly gash.

Oooh the 4-0 against Milan was my absolute favoruite match of that season. We played like in our old days and Messi was pure magic even though we have to say that Milan was trash. It was an embarrassement to lose 2-0 against them.

 

[Clockwork_Orange]

One important thing.

Lewandowski is one of the most overvalued players in history.
You have to cut him off from accurate passes and he doesn't exist.
Somewhere I read that in his youth he had the name WOOD on the pitch.
Poor technique, a game based only on very precise assists.

His 5 goals in 9 minutes against Bremen? There are folks who win the Euro Jackpot. Incredible luck and a combination of circumstances. Nothing else.

Don't be afraid of him!

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Here's 12/13 Barcelona in big games:

Barcelona 3-2 RM (Supercopa)
Barcelona 1-2 RM (Supercopa)
Barcelona 2-2 RM
Barcelona 1-2 RM
Barcelona 1-1 RM
Barcelona 1-3 RM
Barcelona 0-2 Milan
Barcelona 4-0 Milan
Barcelona 2-2 PSG
Barcelona 1-1 PSG
Barcelona 0-4 Bayern
Barcelona 0-3 Bayern

2 W in 12 games.

Here's 19/20 Barcelona in big games:

Barcelona 1-0 Atletico Madrid
Barcelona 0-0 Real Madrid
Barcelona 2-3 Atletico Madrid (Supercopa)
Barcelona 0-2 Real Madrid
Barcelona 2-2 Atletico Madrid
Barcelona 1-1 Napoli
Barcelona 3-1 Napoli

2 W in 7 games.

For 19/20, I'm not counting the 1 W, 1 D against Dortmund in group stages and 2 W v Inter in group stages. Those are "big opponents" but not high pressure games. 12/13 Barca had a lightweight group stage by comparison and even lost to Celtic, with the precise "brave" play and meaningless possession (~85%?) that got burned on counters.

As you can see, we score less but concede less too. This team is bang average by Barca standards but my point is that Barca 12/13 was utterly gash.

That draw vs Dortmund was massive and the wins vs Inter very crucial. Can't take those out IMO. All those four games were big games for sure.

 

[snowy]

As I said, those guys are not tested, even in UCL they faced trash teams. If we play it smart, we can win this.

My ideal line-up 4-1-3-2

Semedo-Pique-Lenglet-Alba
----------Busquets-------
----Vidal----FDJ----Puig
------Messi----Suarez/Grease

Second half subs Fati/Dembele and Maybe Bob for Vidal.

This is good but I'd play Ansu straight up instead of Suarez. I'll always LOVE Luisito but he's just to slow to beat that high line Bayern defense. Play him and I guarantee you at least 6 off-sides. And if no offside, he'll always get beaten on the sprints.

Only way he scores is on a rebound via his quick reactions and WC instincts or on a perfectly weighted pass where he's already in a position to strike. Playing the other Fati gives you higher scoring opps

 

[KingLeo10]

That draw vs Dortmund was massive and the wins vs Inter very crucial. Can't take those out IMO. All those four games were big games for sure.

I know. They're big games as they ensure qualification. But I wanted to keep the comparison apples to apples.

Including those would only support my point further

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

I know. They're big games as they ensure qualification. But I wanted to keep the comparison apples to apples.

Including those would only support my point further

But looking at those, we are not THAT bad. All the big games were close this season. That gives us some positivity I think.

 

[Alik]

Here's 12/13 Barcelona in big games:

Barcelona 3-2 RM
Barcelona 1-2 RM
Barcelona 2-2 RM
Barcelona 1-2 RM
Barcelona 1-1 RM
Barcelona 1-3 RM
Barcelona 0-2 Milan
Barcelona 4-0 Milan
Barcelona 2-2 PSG
Barcelona 1-1 PSG
Barcelona 0-4 Bayern
Barcelona 0-3 Bayern

2 W in 12 games.

Here's 19/20 Barcelona in big games:

Barcelona 1-0 Atletico Madrid
Barcelona 0-0 Real Madrid
Barcelona 2-3 Atletico Madrid
Barcelona 0-2 Real Madrid
Barcelona 2-2 Atletico Madrid
Barcelona 1-1 Napoli
Barcelona 3-1 Napoli

2 W in 7 games.

For 19/20, I'm not counting the 1 W, 1 D against Dortmund in group stages and 2 W v Inter in group stages. Those are "big opponents" but not high pressure games. 12/13 Barca had a lightweight group stage by comparison and even lost to Celtic, with the precise "brave" play and meaningless possession (~85%?) that got burned on counters.

As you can see, we score less but concede less too. This team is bang average by Barca standards but my point is that Barca 12/13 was utterly gash.

- 12/13 RM was stronger that 19/20 RM. And that's half the big games in your first list
- Doesn't make sense to include the 4 matches against Bayern and PSG, when comparing the teams at this point (before quarter finals). All those lists show is that Bar?a got further in every single competition that season.
- Why didn't you include matches against Atletico Madrid as "big games in your first list?

Barcelona 4–1 Atletico Madrid
Atl?tico Madrid 1–2 Barcelona

- Maybe we should also include the ones against Bilbao where we got knocked out of CdR this season too.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

This is good but I'd play Ansu straight up instead of Suarez. I'll always LOVE Luisito but he's just to slow to beat that high line Bayern defense. Play him and I guarantee you at least 6 off-sides. And if no offside, he'll always get beaten on the sprints.

Only way he scores is on a rebound via his quick reactions and WC instincts or on a perfectly weighted pass where he's already in a position to strike. Playing the other Fati gives you higher scoring opps

I personally think we would more dangerous with our Danish demon than Suarez. At least he has the speed to get breakway. Bayerns weakness. Luisito will do shit vs Bayern. Just throw long ball to Danish demon and he creates more pressing and running than Luisito will create in ninety minutes.

Oh crap, he can't play in CL.

 

[KingLeo10]

But looking at those, we are not THAT bad. All the big games were close this season. That gives us some positivity I think.

Exactly. We aren't a good team, let alone a great one.

But this team isn't as stupid or arrogant as the 12/13 one that played a high line and didn't keep the workrate from the Guardiola days and somehow just expected to win.

 

[KingLeo10]

- 12/13 RM was stronger that 19/20 RM. And that's half the "big games" in your first list.
- Doesn't make sense to include the 4 matches against Bayern and PSG, when comparing the teams at this point (before quarter finals).
- Why didn't you include matches against Atletico Madrid as "big games in your first list?

Barcelona 4–1 Atl?tico Madrid
Atl?tico Madrid 1–2 Barcelona

Because AM weren't a CL force/team with CL pedigree. They became that in 13/14. I've only included those and CL KO opponents.

If we want to play it your way and include those, sure. Then, I can throw in 3 W, 1 D in 4 games v Dortmund and Inter.

Regarding 12/13 RM being stronger, isn't your argument that 12/13 Barca was stronger than this one too? Then, why should this matter? It's a relative comparison after all. You also fail to mention current AM is a team with proven pedigree of beating Barca, Bayern, Pool in CL. That more than compensates for the disparity in RM's strength.

Also, if you're saying it's unfair to include PSG and Bayern because they were QF and SF, I don't see why this is an issue. We can't control who we play. We had a far tougher group stage this season compared to 12/13. By that token, there was a chance we couldn't even have made the KO stages.

 

[Alik]

Because AM weren't a CL force/team with CL pedigree. They became that in 13/14. I've only included those and CL KO opponents.

If we want to play it your way, I can throw in 3 W, 1 D in 4 games v Dortmund and Inter.

Regarding 12/13 RM being stronger, isn't your argument that 12/13 Barca was stronger than this one too? Then, why should this matter? It's a relative comparison after all. You also fail to mention current AM is a team with proven pedigree of beating Barca, Bayern, Pool in CL. That more than compensates for the disparity in RM's strength.

Also, if you're saying it's unfair to include PSG and Bayern because they were QF and SF, I don't see why this is an issue. We can't control who we play. We had a far tougher group stage this season compared to 12/13. By that token, there was a chance we couldn't even have made the KO stages.

I just don't think you are comparing apples with apples. Comparing match results from CL semi finals quarter finals, and CdR finals which this Barca hasn't even reached yet.

 

[KingLeo10]

I just don't think you are comparing apples with apples. Comparing match results from CL semi finals quarter finals, and CdR finals which this Barca hasn't even reached yet.

By your logic, we can only compare apples to apples if we progress to the exact same stage in all competitions in both seasons and play the same or very similar opponents at each stage. There's no way this comparison can be done?

I can't convince you if that's the case. I tried my best to be minimally biased (keeping aside the Dortmund and Inter games for instance) but this is shaping up to be a Serghei/Wolfe type debate and I don't think there is much use in proceeding forward.

 

[Neymessi]

This is the worst Barca side since 2003/04.

It's funny how we keep hearing this time and time again since 13

And it's funny because it's true. Because every next time it is mentioned again we are indeed worse than what we were before.

I think Mou was the first one who made this claim during our clash vs manc in 14 saying that barca has a chance to lose coz it was the worst barca in years and it was back then, but we have managed to be worse over time consistently except some few upward blips here and there.