Claudio Bravo

[Irish_Cules]

Brutal fashion? That is on the defense, that isn't allowing shots on target. Bravo is still to be tested, and he always looks too nervous with the ball at his feet, for my liking.



Bravo also had f**k all to do, so far. The defense MAtS did was more difficult than any Bravo had to do, yet. And his much better distribution really stood out.

This is all on Song, who injured MAtS in a crucial period... damn it tchakap.

I agree that he hasn't had much to do as well but he hasn't done anything wrong really. The timing of Ter Stegen's injury was unfortunate and it probably means he has to wait for a while to get his chance in La Liga. He has the talent though and will emerge eventually as the number one.

 

[zanela]

Its not the no. of saves, but the saves per goal, the only stat that's worth noting for a keeper.

From last season,

Keylor Navas made 3.71 saves/goal
T.Courtois ~ 2.73
W. Caballero ~ 2.48
MAtS ~ 2.22
David de gea ~ 1.98
Claudio Bravo ~ 1.92

Only on a Barca forum would you 've ppl claim Bravo to be the better keeper than both Keylor and Cabs.

In any case,
To all the Bravo advocates, where do you rank him amongst the top keepers in the world? Just curious like. :eusa_think:

The only reason he is being treated as an equal to ter Stegen is because Unzue or whoever has to justify making someone of Bravo's level one of the more expensive goalkeeper transfers in recent times in a summer when Willy and Navas went for less money. So the narrative of they are both great has been created from the start.

^^^^ sums it up for me

 

[Deco 20]

I completely agree with Zanela. Bravo never impressed as much as Willy or Navas in the league, and so far he hasn't shown anything for us either.

But the same goes for Ter Stegen, I guess.

 

[Kerrybai]

Its not the no. of saves, but the saves per goal, the only stat that's worth noting for a keeper.

From last season,

Keylor Navas made 3.71 saves/goal
T.Courtois ~ 2.73
W. Caballero ~ 2.48
MAtS ~ 2.22
David de gea ~ 1.98
Claudio Bravo ~ 1.92

Only on a Barca forum would you 've ppl claim Bravo to be the better keeper than both Keylor and Cabs.

In any case,
To all the Bravo advocates, where do you rank him amongst the top keepers in the world? Just curious like. :eusa_think:



^^^^ sums it up for me

I don't rank him highly at all and would prefer Mats in goal, but he did have a good world cup.

Anyway none of this matters, you don't pay 12 million for a goalkeeper just to bench him after 4 clean sheets. It would be a huge middle finger to Bravo and also give Mats the impression that he doesn't have to prove himself to earn the number 1 spot.

Mats looks like the far better prospect and will get his chance.

 

[poncirus]

Its not the no. of saves, but the saves per goal, the only stat that's worth noting for a keeper.

It is not that simple. Context is important.

For example, Levante was a side who soaked up pressure and allowed opposition to take initiative. That approach results in more shots on goal conceded, but many of which were not difficult to deal with, as they came from trying to break through congested space or from set pieces.

Goalkeeper in a more proactive side has to deal with increased difficulty of shots for a simple reason they come from counters or open play more often. (Quantity of those shots will depend on other factors, notably on how possession oriented team is.)

Not to take anything from Navas heroics last season, but in Barca or some other proactive team he wouldn't have those stats. (Valdes actually had impressive save percentages for a couple of seasons, among few best in Europe if I remember correctly. And many of those were 1 on 1. He was truly underrated.)

So I wouldn't say saves per goal ratio is only relevant stat, or more important than total number of shots saved.

 

[serghei]

To all the Bravo advocates, where do you rank him amongst the top keepers in the world? Just curious like. :eusa_think:

For me, 3rd tier.

1st tier (world class): Neuer, Curtois, Buffon.
2nd tier (great): Lloris, De Gea, De Sanctis, Ter Stegen, Keylor Navas (maybe, not sure), Sirigu.
3rd tier (very good to good): Caballero, Bravo, Asenjo, Hart, Weidenfeller, Muslera.

And a couple of others I don't remember now.

 

[zanela]

It is not that simple. Context is important.

For example, Levante was a side who soaked up pressure and allowed opposition to take initiative. That approach results in more shots on goal conceded, but many of which were not difficult to deal with, as they came from trying to break through congested space or from set pieces.

Goalkeeper in a more proactive side has to deal with increased difficulty of shots for a simple reason they come from counters or open play more often. (Quantity of those shots will depend on other factors, notably on how possession oriented team is.)

Not to take anything from Navas heroics last season, but in Barca or some other proactive team he wouldn't have those stats. (Valdes actually had impressive save percentages for a couple of seasons, among few best in Europe if I remember correctly. And many of those were 1 on 1. He was truly underrated.)

So I wouldn't say saves per goal ratio is only relevant stat, or more important than total number of shots saved.

If one were to go by your logic, both Courtois, and Cech must be worse than Bravo, given that they don't play for a proactive side, and have made fewer saves than the chilean over the past couple of seasons, but have higher saves/goal on average.

And If you were to compare him to gks in proactive sides, he will still come short to most, including ter stegen.

 

[poncirus]

If one were to go by your logic, both Courtois, and Cech must be worse than Bravo, given that they don't play for a proactive side, and have made fewer saves than the chilean over the past couple of seasons, but have higher saves/goal on average.

No. Player cant be judged solely by stats. But they do tell something abput his quality. Btw Atleti and Chelsea are more proactive in their matches against lesser opposition.

And If you were to compare him to gks in proactive sides, he will still come short to most, including ter stegen

Yes, Bravo is really dross. Barcaforum knows the best.

 

[Flavia]

How many had really paid attention to Bravo, before the last wc? He caught my attention in the 2010 wc, after that blunder that Villa used to score a golazo. He was always an average keeper. If Barça had him, instead of Valdes last season, Barça would've been out of the title race long before. I don't want him to fail either, I just don't trust him. He is an improvement over Pinto, but a huge downgrade on Valdes.
Right now MAtS is not an upgrade on VV either, but he is better than Bravo, and can only get better.

 

[poncirus]

How many had really paid attention to Bravo, before the last wc? He caught my attention in the 2010 wc, after that blunder that Villa used to score a golazo.

How many Bravo matches did you actually watch. Your line of reasoning is same as those who considered Valdes to be crap because of occassional blunder in high profile match. Or Busquets = worst diver evah because of Inter game.

 

[serghei]

So far, he's on the money. 0 goals conceded, no costly mistakes, so far so good. Didn't watch him much in his time at Sociedad, but no team can finnish 4th in La Liga without a good GK.

 

[Icarium]

He is not that bad and you can't just bench your GK who is on high confidence. It will be a bad move by the coach and if it misfires it will be considered a total fuck up. Just wait until we get decent opponents and see how he fares against them.

 

[Flavia]

How many Bravo matches did you actually watch. Your line of reasoning is same as those who considered Valdes to be crap because of occassional blunder in high profile match. Or Busquets = worst diver evah because of Inter game.

What? I said he caught my attention back in 2010, not that is the only blunder I've seen him comitting since, or that I judge him based on that game. The past season he had a few of those, as the one where he assisted Bale. He is not a top keeper, or worth 12m. No one here would even consider him to be Barça's gk, before his name was suggested by Unzue. Or you're now going to tell me you always thought he was a great gk?
And he's good with his feet, but already showed he is not that good. Not as Valdes was, or as MAtS is, anyway.

 

[serghei]

@Flavia, you shouldn't bring occasional blunders in discussion, since Valdes was a master of those. One of the reason he won't ever be remembered as a WC keeper by the mass public.

 

[Flavia]

@Flavia, you shouldn't bring occasional blunders in discussion, since Valdes was a master of those. One of the reason he won't ever be remembered as a WC keeper by the mass public.

Why not? As you said, that was the reason why he was so hated and underrated by many. And Bravo can be worse in that aspect.
And still, Valdes is a much better gk than Bravo.