Clément Lenglet (loaned to Atletico)

Sorin

Well-known member
And this is why I'm reluctant to sell Umtiti. If he recovers to his peak form he's 2 classes above Lenglet and only recency bias or guys trying to make themselves feel better about selling Umtiti even makes this a contest. Alas, we don't really know how fucked up Umtiti's knee is.
 
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SeloBarca

Senior Member
His positioning on offsidetraps are horrible.
Cant count how many times hes been the player canceling it.
And hes extremly slow and doesnt manage to catch up to the players he has put onside.
Lenglet has been ok at most while Umtiti has been gone, but im not sure about any of them now tbh.
 

Raketa10

Senior Member
He was waaaay worse than Umtiti and Umtiti was a disaster! Lenglet looked like an amateur and made that Ch... guy look like an alien. Umtiti was at least injured and he is completely out of shape while Lenglet has no excuse. He was shockingly bad!
 

Raki13

Active member
He was waaaay worse than Umtiti and Umtiti was a disaster! Lenglet looked like an amateur and made that Ch... guy look like an alien. Umtiti was at least injured and he is completely out of shape while Lenglet has no excuse. He was shockingly bad!

Totally agree , Umtiti was bad and should be sold to get De Ligt in.
Lets hope it was an off day for Lenglet , easily his worst game for us.
 

Barcilliant

Senior Member
His positioning on offsidetraps are horrible.
Cant count how many times hes been the player canceling it.
And hes extremly slow and doesnt manage to catch up to the players he has put onside.
Lenglet has been ok at most while Umtiti has been gone, but im not sure about any of them now tbh.

People don't realize how tough it is to play cb for Barca. Essentially you are always pressing high up the pitch which leaves acres of space behind. That means your positioning, anticipation and timing have to be perfect. If you brought Chiellini, Bonucci to Barca they would struggle. Playing cb in a counter attacking team is much different to playing our style. Lenglet is better suited at making tackles, blocks and interceptions in the box.
 

Messi983

Senior Member
No chemistry between him and Umtiti.

This is what BBZ was talking about a week or so ago in the De Ligt thread about possible problems we could face next year if we get De Ligt.

Pique-Lenglet - after some problems at the start of the season they have a great chemistry now and our defense has usually been very solid over the last few months when they've played together

Pique-Umtiti - they've played well together in the past and if Umtiti returns to full fitness and form they could again find the connection between them

De Ligt-Lenglet and De Ligt-Umtiti - we could have some games similar to last night's (probably not as bad but still a very leaky defense) at the start of next season when MDL would still adapt to the team and his new partner(s) in defense.


Now I don't want to make too much conclussions out of just one game when the whole team was not really in the game mentally (especially after going 2-0 up early) and I'm sure once Umtiti's fitness/form improves and if he would play 4-5 or more times together with Lenglet they would both look much better (though I don't think we'll really get a chance to see this) but it shows how important is understanding between both CBs (and also rest of the defense).

Pique, Lenglet, Umtiti and De Ligt are individually all great players when fit/in form/focused on the game but they willl struggle if they are playing with someone they are not used to play with or if his team mate is out of form which is obviously the case with Umtiti right now coming back from injury.

Lenglet has been rock solid over the last few months so I'll overlook this bad performance. I'll be more worried if he'll start to struggle playing alongside Pique as well. Anyway, I still have much more confidence in him than in current Umtiti so he should be a starter alongside Pique in all important matches until the end of the season.
 

Sorin

Well-known member
Now now, let's not find cheap excuses for Lenglet here. It's true that some of the misunderstandings in the defence were due to poor communication between him and Umititi and whatnot(offside traps, doubling the player carrying the ball etc.), but his inability to deal with 1 on 1 was his fault and his fault alone. It's simply inexcusable to be beaten so easily for 90 minutes straight no matter how you slice it, I'm sorry.

I'll give him that he has been solid, world class at times even, but when I hear that he has been as good as Umtiti and can sell him without thinking twice, then I have an issue. Umtiti's greatest strength is anticipation which is the single most important quality for a CB that plays for us because we play with such a high line. He used to snuff out attacks before they even happened, often times at the center of the pitch and didn't let the likes of Chukweze turn around and have a go at him straight on. Lenglet at this moment can't do it, not even close and when Alba is not up to it then he's just a sitting duck out there. Maybe he can progress further and improve these qualities but at this point it's foolish to sell Umtiti before we can conclude with certainty that his knee is finished. He's simply the more talented player.
 

Alik

Moderator
No chemistry between him and Umtiti.

This is what BBZ was talking about a week or so ago in the De Ligt thread about possible problems we could face next year if we get De Ligt.

Pique-Lenglet - after some problems at the start of the season they have a great chemistry now and our defense has usually been very solid over the last few months when they've played together

Pique-Umtiti - they've played well together in the past and if Umtiti returns to full fitness and form they could again find the connection between them

De Ligt-Lenglet and De Ligt-Umtiti - we could have some games similar to last night's (probably not as bad but still a very leaky defense) at the start of next season when MDL would still adapt to the team and his new partner(s) in defense.


Now I don't want to make too much conclussions out of just one game when the whole team was not really in the game mentally (especially after going 2-0 up early) and I'm sure once Umtiti's fitness/form improves and if he would play 4-5 or more times together with Lenglet they would both look much better (though I don't think we'll really get a chance to see this) but it shows how important is understanding between both CBs (and also rest of the defense).

Pique, Lenglet, Umtiti and De Ligt are individually all great players when fit/in form/focused on the game but they willl struggle if they are playing with someone they are not used to play with or if his team mate is out of form which is obviously the case with Umtiti right now coming back from injury.

Lenglet has been rock solid over the last few months so I'll overlook this bad performance. I'll be more worried if he'll start to struggle playing alongside Pique as well. Anyway, I still have much more confidence in him than in current Umtiti so he should be a starter alongside Pique in all important matches until the end of the season.

As you said, Pique and Lenglet had problems earlier on (Although they were individually worse than they currently are. Especially Pique who is in his best form), but now they have chemistry. No reason why this shouldn't happen with De Ligt after a full pre-season and an early period of adaptation.

I agree with having more confidence in Lenglet than Umititi for the rest of this season.
 

Messi983

Senior Member
Now now, let's not find cheap excuses for Lenglet here. It's true that some of the misunderstandings in the defence were due to poor communication between him and Umititi and whatnot(offside traps, doubling the player carrying the ball etc.), but his inability to deal with 1 on 1 was his fault and his fault alone. It's simply inexcusable to be beaten so easily for 90 minutes straight no matter how you slice it, I'm sorry.

I'll give him that he has been solid, world class at times even, but when I hear that he has been as good as Umtiti and can sell him without thinking twice, then I have an issue. Umtiti's greatest strength is anticipation which is the single most important quality for a CB that plays for us because we play with such a high line. He used to snuff out attacks before they even happened, often times at the center of the pitch and didn't let the likes of Chukweze turn around and have a go at him straight on. Lenglet at this moment can't do it, not even close and when Alba is not up to it then he's just a sitting duck out there. Maybe he can progress further and improve these qualities but at this point it's foolish to sell Umtiti before we can conclude with certainty that his knee is finished. He's simply the more talented player.

I'm not looking for excuses. Lenglet was really poor against Villarreal. He's not perfect but has shown enough so far to earn the right to have one bad game here and there. Every player, even Messi can have a few bad games during the season.

I'm also not advocating we must sell Umtiti this summer as I want to see if he can overcome injury problems and find his form again. At the same time I would understand club's decision to sell if they don't believe he can ever fully recover (and people inside the club have a lot more informations about his status than we) and get back to his best. But I wouldn't sell him for anything less than what we'll have to pay for MDL and I doubt any team is really willing to take that risk with Umtiti right now.



As you said, Pique and Lenglet had problems earlier on (Although they were individually worse than they currently are. Especially Pique who is in his best form), but now they have chemistry. No reason why this shouldn't happen with De Ligt after a full pre-season and an early period of adaptation.

I agree with having more confidence in Lenglet than Umititi for the rest of this season.

Let's assume everyone will be healthy and won't get a prolonged rest. With no WC or Euro this summer Pique, Umtiti, Lenglet and De Ligt (if we get him) should all start preseason with the team. We usually play 4-5 games in preseason so we can use a combination of MDL-Umtiti and MDL-Lenglet in two games (and let's say we'll try out MDL-Pique in one game) but probably just for about a half so this would mean MDL would play around 90 minutes (one full game) with each of his partners before we start to play official games. This is not enough to establish understanding between them.

It took Lenglet and Pique 3 or 4 months to start playing on a high level. Obviously individual form has a lot to do here but we can probably agree that some time was needed for them to build a chemistry as well. Unless Pique would get a longterm injury (which we don't want) it's hard to imagine De Ligt would get that kind of consistency playing with Lenglet or Umtiti let alone both of them. That was my point.

Again, I'm not against signing De Ligt if Barça think he's a longterm Pique replacement and I don't think selling Umtiti is a must. We can go through the next season with 4 very good CBs (at least on paper) but this doesn't mean there won't be some problems dealing witih them. First, adaptation of De Ligt and trying to get Umtiti back in form and second, keeping everyone happy if they are all fit and playing on a high level.
 

God Serena

New member
Once again, much better than Umtiti, even before the United rumors. With De Ligt likely arriving I know who I would sacrifice.
 

Havesaks

Senior Member
Once again, much better than Umtiti, even before the United rumors. With De Ligt likely arriving I know who I would sacrifice.

Sincerely, is this a troll post? I just don't know anymore, Umtiti had two bad matches after being out the whole season with an injury?
 

God Serena

New member
Sincerely, is this a troll post? I just don't know anymore, Umtiti had two bad matches after being out the whole season with an injury?

I specifically said even before the United rumors, which was an entire season before his injury.

Don't accuse me of being a troll just because you can't read.
 

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