Cr150
- Thread starter El Flaco
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really cringe when I see people say things like "the point of football is to score goals, whoever can score the goals is automatically in the running for best player".
Football is about being the TEAM to score the most goals. And every player within that team, has a different role to make that happen.
Example- one player dictates midfield, creating a play that takes x number of opponents out of the game, giving the ball to the next player, whos in a good position now to do something. They beat a bunch of defenders, and set up the last player for a tap in. Goal.
Its like a bunch of people passing a heavy box from person to person to help get it across some finish line, and the last person to have it handed to them, who sets it on the finish line, and someone saying "the whole point of this exercise was to get the box at that finish line. Thats the whole point, and that last guy actually got it across- therefore he was MVP, most important in this pricess, most skilled at box lifting... etc"
I dunno- I just get frustrated at the whole "football is about scoring goals, therefore he is the best footballer" thing. Its about having most goals scored, AS A UNIT, versus the other unit. And you need playmakers, passers, dribblers etc to even create a chance for a goalscorer in the first place. A football match isn't automatically won when an individual scores the most goals, but it is always won when a team scores the most goals.
And some parts of that process are more difficult, require more skill, have grandeur influence- then just putting the ball in the back of the net. A better footballer is the one with the highest contribution to the game, done by skill, that leads to "our team had most goals".
A lot of the time that isn't the actual finisher. Being able to completely control a game, and manipulate a midfield to create space and chances, and being creative enough to consistantly utilize that to get the ball well forward and behind defensive lines (and doing it with a good skill set), across the game leads to many oppourtunities for others to do things possibly leading to goals, or sets up a lot of chances- or at the very least is giving time and possession to your team, and running around to the opponents. All things which increaase the chances of your team scoring a goal. Player creates a gazillion chances, another player finishes one. "But football is about scoring the most goalz!" When really, who was better here for increasing the chances of that happening?
Sorry to drill in the point
Football is about being the TEAM to score the most goals. And every player within that team, has a different role to make that happen.
Example- one player dictates midfield, creating a play that takes x number of opponents out of the game, giving the ball to the next player, whos in a good position now to do something. They beat a bunch of defenders, and set up the last player for a tap in. Goal.
Its like a bunch of people passing a heavy box from person to person to help get it across some finish line, and the last person to have it handed to them, who sets it on the finish line, and someone saying "the whole point of this exercise was to get the box at that finish line. Thats the whole point, and that last guy actually got it across- therefore he was MVP, most important in this pricess, most skilled at box lifting... etc"
I dunno- I just get frustrated at the whole "football is about scoring goals, therefore he is the best footballer" thing. Its about having most goals scored, AS A UNIT, versus the other unit. And you need playmakers, passers, dribblers etc to even create a chance for a goalscorer in the first place. A football match isn't automatically won when an individual scores the most goals, but it is always won when a team scores the most goals.
And some parts of that process are more difficult, require more skill, have grandeur influence- then just putting the ball in the back of the net. A better footballer is the one with the highest contribution to the game, done by skill, that leads to "our team had most goals".
A lot of the time that isn't the actual finisher. Being able to completely control a game, and manipulate a midfield to create space and chances, and being creative enough to consistantly utilize that to get the ball well forward and behind defensive lines (and doing it with a good skill set), across the game leads to many oppourtunities for others to do things possibly leading to goals, or sets up a lot of chances- or at the very least is giving time and possession to your team, and running around to the opponents. All things which increaase the chances of your team scoring a goal. Player creates a gazillion chances, another player finishes one. "But football is about scoring the most goalz!" When really, who was better here for increasing the chances of that happening?
Sorry to drill in the point
Kerrybai
New member
Crazy that nearly half his goals are in the knockout phase.
wisconsincule
Senior Member
Would be ideal if we could make a deep run this year sparked by 10+ Messi goals
ronniecro
Active member
but ronaldo scored,everything else doesn't matter for media and his fans
footyfan
Calma, calma
Not just that, but in recent years his teams have been reaching the later stages with regularity (reaching atleast semis since 2010/11) and 3 finals in the last 4 years. So the average level of his 69 knockout games is also higher, compared to someone whose 69 knockout games are all R16 (no such player exists, its just a theoretical example). Barca for example havent reached the semis 3 times in the last 4 years, which is frankly quite poor for a team of their calibre.
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BBZ8800
Senior Member
People saying often how CL is a lot about luck and short term form in spring.
Which is true.
Those people say that league lasts longer and how league shows a real form.
On the other hand, CL is a competition for big boys with a sudden death rules and you need an enormous experience and mental strength.
For example: when Barca faces Atletico in a CL, we have only 180 minutes. And we will be either dead or alive.
There is no room for mistakes.
If you lose, you are out.
In La Liga, you can lose to RM or Atletico, and who cares?
Next week you'll win against Getafe or Levante, and if RM loses against Las Palmas, we are back to square one.
So, there is not that much pressure in La liga and there is no sudden death.
So, imo, to some extent, teams filled with bottlers may be able to dominate in league tournaments, but will be exposed in CL KO matches.
Also, in La Liga, Barca (or any winner) can theoretically lose twice to Rm and Am and still be a champion due to more wins against smaller teams.
Some people will get offended, but imo, La Liga and other league championships are more about: how to find a way to win as many matches as possible against midtable and bottom table teams.
La liga winner is not a team who wins in El Classicos, but a team who makes less mistakes against Eibar, Getafe and similar.
So, yes, La liga has it's charm. CL also has it's charm.
But imo, let's not play down the importance and difficulties of winning a CL.
CL is the biggest prize in club football and that's it.
RM are masters of it, and imo, they are often playing dirty tricks. They are often able to have mediocre seasons in La liga (and imo losing in CDR on purpose) and yet, you'll find them flying in March, April and May against Bayern, Juve and other big teams.
RM has experience in these KO matches and they have a huge advantage over other European teams.
Also, when they are losing, they are not losing their heads (unlike rookie teams like Psg) since RM have been in 0:1 or 0:2 situations 100s of times and they were able to turn it around.
So, they possess a huge selfbelief, self confidence, mental strength and everything.
Plus, they aren't a bad team at all.
In short, I don't agree with you that winning against Gerafe and Eibar is harder and more important than winning a tricky (and somewhat luck based) CL trophy.
Ok, it is the best when a team wins BOTH CL and La liga in the same season.
But in the end, who wins a CL=wins a biggest prize in that season...
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Aryagorn
Improvin' Perfection!!
Completely true.
However, the last two time Real won the league, it was us who did better than them in the El Classico. We either had a better h2h (in 2011-12) or they just didn't win us at all (in 2016-17)
So, I won't completely agree with the analysis that they deal better under pressue and all that. It is plain luck that they have done well in the CL! Their only legitimate claim for CL had been in 2013-14
Look at it man - We get a legitimate goal cancelled and we lose out on sucessfully defending the CL (not to mention the stupid volcano thinig. I mean that thing is sort of the luck (or bad luck depending on which side you are) which would ruin the chances of a mid table club signing Lewandowski!)
The shit repeats againt Chelsea too in 2012.
Yes, we were not too good in 13 or 14 or 17. Rest of the time it was mere dumb luck that screwed us - The opposite of what the evil club had the last 4 years! Give us even 10% of what they had and we would talking about a whole different scenario
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He's got one hand on the ball on dor already let's face it. It'll take something miraculous from Messi to stop that and a Real CL win again. Nobody will care about a domestic double.
Messi can't just shoot on sight in and around the box and goal hang for tap ins because he won't get the same service. He has to create himself.
Messi can't just shoot on sight in and around the box and goal hang for tap ins because he won't get the same service. He has to create himself.
ronniecro
Active member
that's true,if ronaldo scores in 2nd leg and in next stages he will be considered as the main favourite for bdor,if real defends the title again then only WC title for messi can turn things in his favour,otherwise he'll win it again
Messi has to win CL or WC. CL for Real already looks inevitable and Argentina would need Portugal luck to win WC. Their chance was last time.
BarçaBarça
New member
It annoys me that he always enters the Messi-Ronaldo conversation. But to be honest if he gets another Ballon d'or and people use that in an argument against Messi, I really think the ones who does that embarrasses themselves - everyone know that Ballon d'or isn't the important trophy to win - team-trophies are.
raskolnikov
Well-known member
It does if he gets sole credit for the team performances. I lost count of The amount of times I have heard that Ronaldo single handed won them those cl’s.
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