Cr150

[cracken]

Where do I not give him credit?

What credit are you giving him exactly? that he scored easy goals, that he plays in a strong collective team that did even more impressive things without him, or that his previous success with Madrid was mostly owed to luck and teammates? you pretty much left no stone unturned when it comes to minimizing his individual impact.

 

[cracken]

If its all about luck when it comes to ronaldo

It's either luck or these superhuman teammates that supposedly serve him everything on a silver platter.

 

[MagIX]

It's either luck or these superhuman teammates that supposedly serve him everything on a silver platter.

and neither that he plays/played in poor weak teams and only because of him those teams (MU, RM, Juve) could win.

 

[Arizona Scott]

BBZ:

Messi carried Argentina to a World Cup final (and extra time) the same year Portugal didn't advance out of the group stage when good ole USA did.

They both lost in the round of 16 last year.

Messi carried two other Argentina teams to Copa America finals decided by pens, one he made and others his team didn't, one of those he did miss.

CR was on Portugal when they won in extra time, mind you he barely played in the final. They also didn't win a single group match but got to the elimination stage on a system quirk.

Messi was the best player for a gold medal team.

People also forget it wasn't CR that was decisive in 4 of his 5 CLs. Ramos and John Terry were.

Messi was decisive in 2 of his 4 CL titles and great in one other.

Your memory and many others are just way too recency biased.

You are also a stats person, look at their cumulative metrics while in the same league (La Liga) and same tournaments (CL, Copa) or same matches (all those Classicos + the their CL final). It really isn't close once you get beyond counting the relatively equal rates of goal scoring at just about all levels.

 

[Arizona Scott]

What credit are you giving him exactly? that he scored easy goals, that he plays in a strong collective team that did even more impressive things without him, or that his previous success with Madrid was mostly owed to luck and teammates? you pretty much left no stone unturned when it comes to minimizing his individual impact.

I don't think many minimize his impact or don't think he is a great, or even epic, striker. The comparisons only fail when you compare CR to Messi as a great, total, footballer. Of the most dominant footballers I have seen live they have been Maradona, Zidane and Messi. No, CR, other Ronaldo and even Iniesta or Xavi I don't put in the former company as a great as they were/are.

 

[KingLeo10]

I don't think many minimize his impact or don't think he is a great, or even epic, striker. The comparisons only fail when you compare CR to Messi as a great, total, footballer. Of the most dominant footballers I have seen live they have been Maradona, Zidane and Messi. No, CR, other Ronaldo and even Iniesta or Xavi I don't put in the former company as a great as they were/are.

That's surprising. I always thought Zidane was more a moment of genius player than sustained dominance over the course of 90 mins. I thought R9 pre-injury was the single most unstoppable force in football history (Messi 2011 being the only one with an argument against that).

 

[MagIX]

I don't think many minimize his impact or don't think he is a great, or even epic, striker. The comparisons only fail when you compare CR to Messi as a great, total, footballer. Of the most dominant footballers I have seen live they have been Maradona, Zidane and Messi. No, CR, other Ronaldo and even Iniesta or Xavi I don't put in the former company as a great as they were/are.

I agree.
The problem is that in the last 10 years the way of evaluate a player has changed, curiously it has become a trend to evaluate a player by how many goals he achieves. Before, it was not like that: in a few words you looked at the MAGIC of the player. For exemple Zidane and Cruyff didn't achieve many goals, however they are considered among the best players ever. Even Maradona didn't achive so many goals, but he is consideded with Pele the best ever. G. Müller has scored a lot of goals, but he is not considered one of the best players. Van Basten (3 ballon d'or, careers ended at 27 years ), a goal machine, is not cosidered one of the best ever.

 

[cracken]

BBZ:

Messi carried Argentina to a World Cup final (and extra time) the same year Portugal didn't advance out of the group stage when good ole USA did.
CR was on Portugal when they won in extra time, mind you he barely played in the final. They also didn't win a single group match but got to the elimination stage on a system quirk.

Not that I rate Ronaldo higher than Messi or anything, but this is a perfect example of the biased narratives that you see around here. Did Messi really carry Argentina to the final with his 0 goals and 1 measly assist in the knockout stage? and here I thought it was the solid defense that didn't concede a single goal or a certain Romero who made numerous decisve saves and helped them win a penalty shootout. Messi's individual exploits carried them to the second round, and that's about it.

 

[JackaL]

The atmosphere in here is pathetic, especially given it's a Barça forum and 99.9% are Messi fans. There is no doubt Messi is history's greatest player and believe me I hate Ronaldo too. But how the hell can people draw nonsense arguments out of their buttholes to kind of disregard a hattrick in a game that was already considered to be lost. I don't consider Ronaldo even close to Messi in terms of skill, but how the hell can one say Ronaldo has great teammates while disregarding the fact that Messi has them too? We are talking about two of the richest and biggest clubs in the World.

By the way, Messi was great yesterday.

 

[Havesaks]

The atmosphere in here is pathetic, especially given it's a Barça forum and 99.9% are Messi fans. There is no doubt Messi is history's greatest player and believe me I hate Ronaldo too. But how the hell can people draw nonsense arguments out of their buttholes to kind of disregard a hattrick in a game that was already considered to be lost. I don't consider Ronaldo even close to Messi in terms of skill, but how the hell can one say Ronaldo has great teammates while disregarding the fact that Messi has them too? We are talking about two of the richest and biggest clubs in the World.

By the way, Messi was great yesterday.

If messi wouldn't be here, we wouldn't even be in top 15 in liga. All our players are shit: Alba? Shit. Pique? Shit. Stegen? Shit. Arthur? Shit. Ronaldos teammates in real madrid were the best in the world but they used all their energy and Ronaldo realized that and moved to juventus with the second best team in the world - now best. And not even taking about managers? Valverde maybe won the double, but he was carried by messi. without messi couldntevenget a manager job in football.allegri and zidane on the other hand are goat managers.

 

[Leo_Messi]

No point in even discussing with CR7 fanboys on a freaking Barça forum why the narrative of C. Ronaldo always appearing in finals and great moments (already provided examples of him not convincing in 2/3 (!) of all his 6 major finals in his career to date, 5/7 if we include his EURO 2004 final loss) is a giant fallacy and why, whenever he won trophies, it occurred for great, great teams and not subpar teams as certain individuals want to make it sound like. Including his current team (Juve) which has been a tremendous team in the past many years in Europe and the CL. Top 3 without a doubt.

Nor am I going to hail him as some imaginary GOAT (lol) due to 2 headers scored against a weakened and pathetically bad Atlético defense composed of midgets from 5-10 meters away from goal and a penalty (gift) that he did not win.

Messi had a superior performance yesterday (football wise and every sane person that knows a thing or two about football should understand and acknowledge this fact) nor is he a better goalscorer than Messi (statistically speaking) nor the better creator, distributor let alone the better footballer.

He might very well have the better mentality, work ethic and leadership abilities as written and being an easier outlet to use in the CL when looking for goals as it is always harder to stop him from scoring from say headers if a team, like Juve yesterday or RM's Zidane, is used to cross the ball freaking 30-40 times a game. Easier for elite teams defending with 10 players to stop a player like Messi. Not Messi's fault that he has the height that he has.

Not much more to add and looking forward to us kicking the CL chokers Juve out in case we draw them and for Messi to once again be the winner in a head to head game (s) in the CL against C. Ronaldo.

Related posts written in the Messi thread.

Don't really care about the Messi-C. Ronaldo "rivalry" and comparisons but I can't stand hearing people with zero football knowledge and zero understanding of the game (most "football fans" nowadays due to the game being more global than ever) who judge players based on Youtube videos and statistics and can't see the obvious thing which is that Messi is twice the player if that can do it. How can any sane person compare a player like Messi that is the better goalscorer (Ronaldo's by far strongest trait, nowadays he lives on the service of others as he can barely create anything on his own), by far better passer and by far better distributor. Let alone the better individual talent. Better individual statistics and a better trophy cabinet. ALL while being almost 3 years younger.

It's insane to me. Like comparing Michael Jordan with say Kobe Bryant although the latter is my favorite basketball player of all-time. Just insane. The CR7 wanking on his forum from the pathetic lot is even more pathetic given the nature of this forum and the fact that the same users are always belittling Messi of all people. Now he hopefully shut them up for a while.

That is not even mentioning the fact that giving the ball to Messi is basically our sole "tactic" under Valverde. C. Ronaldo just has to stand in the penalty box looking for headers or easy tap ins or penalty kicks. Creating jackshit otherwise.

Exactly. You hear this lie being repeated nonstop. When people are discussing what Ronaldo does better it is usually (mostly) the goalscoring that is highlighted. However even that is inaccurate by a wide margin. It's funny because the only reason why this comparison even exists in the first place is due to C. Ronaldo having somewhat of a similar goalscoring output as Messi and likewise having a very impressive trophy cabinet. However being a comparable goalscorer to Messi (yet inferior) does not mean that you are anywhere near as good a player. In such a case Gerd Müller should be the GOAT yet no sane person considers him that. Cruyff was rated more highly for a reason during the 1970's despite never winning a World Cup or EURO as Müller did.

That is where the comparison should stop as people knowledgeable about football do not need to look at stats to figure out who the superior player and talent is. Just watching them play week in and week out should suffice.

Exact same thing about their CL stats. Messi scores more goals per game and minutes played. Messi has only scored 16 goals less (despite RM playing many more CL games than us in recent seasons due to being better in the CL than us) while having played 29 CL games less in his career.

Messi scores 0.82 goals per match in the CL. C. Ronaldo 0.78 goals per match. Now people can do the math if Messi had played as many CL games as C. Ronaldo (29 more). He would have scored (based on stats alone) more goals than C. Ronaldo.

Then you add this nonsense narrative of Messi not being a big game player ( ) despite owning the El Clásico (biggest club game in the world) and head to head games against the same C. Ronaldo. The same C. Ronaldo that has showed nothing in 2/3 of his 6 major finals in his career. Make that 5/7 if we include his EURO loss in 2004.

Just insane what repeated lies and insane narratives can create of mainstream opinions and even more insane that you need to read the same nonsense and lies on a freaking Barça forum.

 

[George_Costanza]

The fuck with this thread, we have two groups fighting and bitching. 1. CR7 fanboys 2. CR7 haters locked in never-ending argument. Both acting like ultras and hooligans, it's annoying because no one is going to change their opinion.

I previously hated CR7 but now that I'm older, and know Messi and CR7 both won’t be playing in a few years considering both are past the age of 30 (Ronaldo is 34), I'm just more relaxed and enjoy every moment when they play. I do have my opinion who is the better player, but for any pure football fan, it will be a loss not seeing them play anymore.

So sit back, relax, and enjoy the football they play.

 

[Leo_Messi]

WTF is that notorious troll above blabbering about? Hooligans? Imaginary Messi fanboys? Sure, it will be a loss not seeing C. Ronaldo play for any Barça fan. Such an entertaining player to watch in the recent many years after he became a pure poacher.
Countering the insane posts and narratives written in this thread lately is the natural thing to do hence why most users were agreeing with my initial posts and that of others who countered the exact same nonsense. Don't like it? Not my problem.
What a strange thing that actual Barça fans (club members moreover in my case and lifelong fans) prefer and consider Messi to be the superior player much like most informed football fans and so-called experts do and former players and that we are not buying the false narratives that certain users are propagandizing. Shocking. On a Barça forum moreover. Someone call the cops.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

Not fair to call CR a poacher when he's still a winger with predator instincts who also has a shit load of assists in his career. He has poacher like qualities, but it's not his fault his off the ball movement is world class.

 

[Leo_Messi]

Not fair to call CR a poacher when he's still a winger with predator instincts who also has a shit load of assists in his career. He has poacher like qualities, but it's not his fault his off the ball movement is world class.

He is less of a winger than Messi is nowadays. Even more so in Juve's current system. Nowadays he offers very little other than goals and off the ball movement. Thus any comparisons with Messi (even when said Messi is far from his prime) makes zero sense. It never did.

Nobody is faulting him of anything but there is really no comparison between them.