Cristiano Ronaldo - v1

[Morten]

So Ronaldinho is not top 100? Zidan is top...let me think...300,400,500 players? Where would you put him?

His feats are not downplayed. His goal records and awards, individual and team, prove that he is great great player. The problem starts when you compare him to Messi and try to bring the argument solely about goals. If you do that you can comfortably conclude that Inzaghi was better player then Ronaldinho and Zidane combined. Which is bogus ofc...

Not really, Ronaldinho at his top scored more than 20 a season, add the assists and he probably got more goal/assist combined than what Inzaghi did during a season. If you want to talk about numbers. Of course, only counting goals Inzaghi probably has alot more overall.

 

[JamDav1982]

Hmm Modrić played in Tottenham where he certainly couldn't provide for players nearly as good as Ronaldo is. Thats why he was bought, because they knew he was perfect for a job. Ozil is different story as he does still create alot but was fucked by injuries alot so its hard to judge. But then again, its hard to compare the likes of Ronaldo to Sanogo and giroud. Only thing they have in common is that they are box players, but Ronaldo is light years infront of them.

But again you are missing the point completely and you didn't answer my questions. For me Ronaldo is best poacher in the world currently, but EVERY poacher needs good service. No service, NO goals. Take the service from Messi, Maradona, R9, Ronaldinho any of these players and you still get bunch of goals. Fabregas has much more assists in Chelsea because he is servicing another good poacher, Costa. He had less in Barca where he had best player of all time in Messi so it begs a question how come he gets so many assist while playing with a guys 5 times worse then Messi? Well we all know the reasons and we all know what kind of goals Messi scorers, there is no need to get in that discussion...

I think you have the balance all wrong. You are giving credit to the service and giving that the credit for Ronaldos goals. When in reality all the evidence points to playing with Ronaldo upping the stats of other players and they struggle more without him.

Have the creative players at Real like Ozil, Di Maria and James really been better at the other top teams like Bayern, Man City, Chelsea etc? Probably not but no players from those clubs are getting anywhere close to Ronaldos numbers.

No idea what your Fabregas point is as Fabregas was among the top player in europe for assists at Barca without really being on set pieces and without starting every game.

Fabregas has a lot of assists from set pieces this season and more minutes on pitch. Not all down to Diego Costa.

 

[blaugrana1987]

Not really, Ronaldinho at his top scored more than 20 a season, add the assists and he probably got more goal/assist combined than what Inzaghi did during a season. If you want to talk about numbers. Of course, only counting goals Inzaghi probably has alot more overall.

Inzaghi scored more goals then Zidane and Ronaldinho together and most of his goals were for Juve and Milan in very defensive league. Ronaldinho scored 72 goals in Gremio and his years at Barca he was around 20-25.

There is much more to football then scoring and you know that very well, his header today was great and showed what a great poacher he was. He also had assist where he gave the ball in position Marcelo wouldn't score if he shot 200 times more, but this time it went in. It will go into his statistics, but there is a reason Real fans on other forums still think he is quite off. I think they are finally starting to concentrate more on the game, then solely on scoreboard.

Only way for CR to be compared to Messi would be to have performance like against Atleti half a year ago, from the first half. Dribbling, opening spaces and trying to move the game from dead point. Problem is he has that kind of half once in a year.

 

[JamDav1982]

Inzaghi scored more goals then Zidane and Ronaldinho together and most of his goals were for Juve and Milan in very defensive league. Ronaldinho scored 72 goals in Gremio and his years at Barca he was around 20-25.

There is much more to football then scoring and you know that very well, his header today was great and showed what a great poacher he was. He also had assist where he gave the ball in position Marcelo wouldn't score if he shot 200 times more, but this time it went in. It will go into his statistics, but there is a reason Real fans on other forums still think he is quite off. I think they are finally starting to concentrate more on the game, then solely on scoreboard.

Only way for CR to be compared to Messi would be to have performance like against Atleti half a year ago, from the first half. Dribbling, opening spaces and trying to move the game from dead point. Problem is he has that kind of half once in a year.

Ronaldo is more than just a poacher though, he plays a big part in making Real Madrid one of the best teams in the world on the break with his pace and movement.

You seem to want to reduce Ronaldo to some kind of goal hanger that does nothing but wait about for chances to score. That is way off and this season Ronaldo even has more assists than any other player in the team.

 

[blaugrana1987]

I think you have the balance all wrong. You are giving credit to the service and giving that the credit for Ronaldos goals. When in reality all the evidence points to playing with Ronaldo upping the stats of other players and they struggle more without him.

Have the creative players at Real like Ozil, Di Maria and James really been better at the other top teams like Bayern, Man City, Chelsea etc? Probably not but no players from those clubs are getting anywhere close to Ronaldos numbers.

No idea what your Fabregas point is as Fabregas was among the top player in europe for assists at Barca without really being on set pieces and without starting every game.

Fabregas has a lot of assists from set pieces this season and more minutes on pitch. Not all down to Diego Costa.

I'm saying there is difference in targeting Ronaldo (while you are playing in a team that is also worth 600mil euros on top of that) and targeting Sanogo and Giroud. I'm also sure I've never said Ronaldo is NOT phenomenal goalscorer, better then anyone bar Messi. He is much better poacher then Messi though and much better with headers so that helps as well.

So its more of two way affair, great service (Ozil, ADM, Modrić, James etc) and great goalscorer (Ronaldo). But that STILL goes well with my argument that he is a man of the box, and as such cannot be compared with Messi. Messi, in comparison is better playmaker then any of those we mentioned, but he is also considerably better goalscorer from open game even if he doesn't reside in the box.

And THAT is why its disservice to compare Messi with Ronaldo and look at goals only. And that is why CR fans are terrified of statistics that show number of penalties, shots on target, goal conversion, dribbling, assisting, chance creation, tackling etc. Because Messi simply DEMOLISHES Ronaldo in pretty much every way possible.

 

[blaugrana1987]

Ronaldo is more than just a poacher though, he plays a big part in making Real Madrid one of the best teams in the world on the break with his pace and movement.

You seem to want to reduce Ronaldo to some kind of goal hanger that does nothing but wait about for chances to score. That is way off and this season Ronaldo even has more assists than any other player in the team.

JamDav1982 you are doing exactly that. You are looking at number and not in game. Today he had assist, what was that? He passed the ball to Marcelo at the edge of the box and the guy scored a goal with wonderstrike that he will never ever score. He also had two assists (I watch the every week) where he was shooting the ball and it was caught up and put in back of the net without any intention of playing his teammate.

He does (or did?) take a big part in fast paced counter from Madrid last season and this season as well, but it seems like that is winding down as he is looking either tired, lazy or unmotivated to do so in last few months that I watched them.

Thats the reason why you love Fabregas as well, even though he was absolute flop in Barca. He had good numbers, better then anyone bar Messi, yet he was absolute shit and the entire board is happy we got rid of him.

I remember when Arsenal fans were saying Fab > Xavi & Iniesta because he had much more assist and goals then both. Well we all know Fabregas is not half a player these two were.

 

[JamDav1982]

I'm saying there is difference in targeting Ronaldo (while you are playing in a team that is also worth 600mil euros on top of that) and targeting Sanogo and Giroud. I'm also sure I've never said Ronaldo is NOT phenomenal goalscorer, better then anyone bar Messi. He is much better poacher then Messi though and much better with headers so that helps as well.

So its more of two way affair, great service (Ozil, ADM, Modrić, James etc) and great goalscorer (Ronaldo). But that STILL goes well with my argument that he is a man of the box, and as such cannot be compared with Messi. Messi, in comparison is better playmaker then any of those we mentioned, but he is also considerably better goalscorer from open game even if he doesn't reside in the box.

And THAT is why its disservice to compare Messi with Ronaldo and look at goals only. And that is why CR fans are terrified of statistics that show number of penalties, shots on target, goal conversion, dribbling, assisting, chance creation, tackling etc. Because Messi simply DEMOLISHES Ronaldo in pretty much every way possible.

You are about the only one comparing him with Messi. Certainly on here.

The vast majority of people accept Messi is the best ever so there is no need to keep comparing Ronaldo to him.

But in my opinion you are not giving Ronaldo credit for how much he brings to a team and reducing him to a poacher who looks for tap ins. That idea is totally wrong. Ronaldo prefers an open game where he can arrive late in the box and use his speed, movement and desire to get on end of things. He reads the game in that sense much better than almost every other attacking player.

He will never be a poacher. He actually hates playing CF and being restricted to box as it limits him. That has been evident loads of times.

Ronaldo has made good creative players look great and scored goals whoever has been there to provide for him.

 

[KingMessi]

I think you have to look at the types of assists too. Player A could set up Player B with a tap in with a perfect pass, that's an assist. Sometimes a player A will pass to a player B, and player B will dribble through a few players and score--it's still recorded as an assist. And sometimes player A could pass to player B who scores a screamer with a wonderstrike--it's still an assist.

Just my two cents.

I'm bailing from this thread before I get sidetracked again.

 

[JamDav1982]

I think you have to look at the types of assists too. Player A could set up Player B with a tap in with a perfect pass, that's an assist. Sometimes a player A will pass to a player B, and player B will dribble through a few players and score--it's still recorded as an assist. And sometimes player A could pass to player B who scores a screamer with a wonderstrike--it's still an assist.

Just my two cents.

I'm bailing from this thread before I get sidetracked again.

All players will get some lucky assists and Ronaldo will rarely get an assist from anything spectacular because he doesnt have the ability on the ball to do it.

But what he does do is get into the right areas to make himself a threat and get in positions where he can provide an assist. Only ever if he cant take a shot himself though.

 

[DonAK]

Norwegian media sucking up to Real Madrid and Cristiano Ronaldo just because they got Ødegaard now.

Can't wait for when they start quoting fake Marca rumours and stories now...........

 

[KingMessi]

Norwegian sucking up to Real Madrid and Cristiano Ronaldo just because they got Ødegaard now.

Who? What?

 

[DonAK]

Who? What?

Check now.

 

[Morten]

Norwegian sucking up to Real Madrid and Cristiano Ronaldo just because they got Ødegaard now.

Dont worry, i was here before that happend Its good though, norwegians are obsessed with premier league, they hardly know anything about football outside England. Its all about United, Liverpool and sometime Arsenal. Maybe this will open up their minds to spanish football, they need it, norwegians are totally brainwashed into the pl-hype. Its a great league, but so are a few others.

 

[DonAK]

Dont worry, i was here before that happend Its good though, norwegians are obsessed with premier league, they hardly know anything about football outside England. Its all about United, Liverpool and sometime Arsenal. Maybe this will open up their minds to spanish football.

I hope the media will give it more coverage and that the common man will realize how good Spanish Football is and start following it, but I fear an army of Madridistas is a more likely outcome of this

 

[Morten]

I hope the media will give it more coverage and that the common man will realize how good Spanish Football is and start following it

Its gonna be a hard task, most norwegians believe that Real and Barcelona are the only good teams there, Messi would struggle etc. Heck, they dont even know its been a three horse race for a while now.