Dani Ceballos

serghei

Senior Member
There's a difference between bad tactics being "THE ONLY" and them being "THE MAIN". I have a problem with those who say it was only bad tactics, our squad is worldclass
, perfect.
Ofcourse you can have big wins even when you don't have sufficient quality when your team is highly motivated for such games. But if you have the quality in the squad, you are able to continue such performances.
Tata's team for example, beat Real Madrid 2-1 at Camp Nou and 4-3 at Santiago Bernabeu, but we all know that the quality was not much , but the motivation was high.
The quality of the team is not measurde by 4 matches, it is measured over the course of the season. Motivation has to be supported with quality and tactics. You need to have all three

Why weren't we highly motivated for Juventus game then? It's not the lack of quality that is messing with your motivation and your focus. It's a drop in will to compete at your best, and will to win, partly because Lucho was clearly not working anymore, not managing to keep the players with their head in the game at all times (or even when it mattered most). Mental decline is bound to appear at some point, and it's normal for a team to have some oscilations. Lack of quality is not an issue for us at this point. We can improve our squad, but it doesn't mean we don't have the necessary players to win everything.


This is how it works for all teams actually. You have a great run for a while (longer, or shorter, depending on generation), and after that your level drops, and you have to become motivated again. Right know, the jury is out concerning what does it take for this team to get hungry again. This is the key part. Whether we are talking about a clear end of cycle, or the comeback is already on after getting Valverde, who should be getting into this part of his career with full motivation.

If he will be able to pass this motivation to the team we might be having a great season without signing big names. So, in this respect, the squad is world class for sure. People say Rakitic, for example, is not this or not that, but didn't he played great in 2014-15? Didn't he score a golazo vs Madrid just a few months ago? Didn't he also scored vs Altetico on Camp Nou a great goal? He might not be as good as Verratti, or Kroos, or whatever, but that's cherrypicking imo. You don't get to have the best players in each position, nobody does. Some positions can be filled with 'just' very good players and you can still function at a great level with those players.
 
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springfield

New member
I don't see Rakitic as a bad player but Barcelona has a very specific playing style with alot of combinations, passing, 1-2... And Iniesta is someone who can give that extra in the midfield and link up with the front line, and Rakitic is great next to him. But don't expect him to find solutions when it's a difficult game. And when iniesta is not playing, nobody can fill the gap. All the bench midfielders are very average when it comes to creativity. That's why a great midfielder is needed.

It's not just about motivation.
It's not just about having a good run that finishes.
The squad is aging and the ones in line to replace the players who leave are average at the most.
 
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gasgas

Senior Member
Why weren't we highly motivated for Juventus game then? It's not the lack of quality that is messing with your motivation and your focus. It's a drop in will to compete at your best, and will to win, partly because Lucho was clearly not working anymore, not managing to keep the players with their head in the game at all times (or even when it mattered most). Mental decline is bound to appear at some point, and it's normal for a team to have some oscilations. Lack of quality is not an issue for us at this point. We can improve our squad, but it doesn't mean we don't have the necessary players to win everything.


This is how it works for all teams actually. You have a great run for a while (longer, or shorter, depending on generation), and after that your level drops, and you have to become motivated again. Right know, the jury is out concerning what does it take for this team to get hungry again. This is the key part. Whether we are talking about a clear end of cycle, or the comeback is already on after getting Valverde, who should be getting into this part of his career with full motivation.

If he will be able to pass this motivation to the team we might be having a great season without signing big names. So, in this respect, the squad is world class for sure. People say Rakitic, for example, is not this or not that, but didn't he played great in 2014-15? Didn't he score a golazo vs Madrid just a few months ago? Didn't he also scored vs Altetico on Camp Nou a great goal? He might not be as good as Verratti, or Kroos, or whatever, but that's cherrypicking imo. You don't get to have the best players in each position, nobody does. Some positions can be filled with 'just' very good players and you can still function at a great level with those players.

I am too tired to read all this in depth, but I assume I know what you're trying to say
I will just disagree and say a few things.

We have been on a downward spiral since the start of 2016. On a progressive decline in motivation, tactics, but also in quality.

Things have changed a lot since the treble season that have caused the drop of quality.

1. We had three world class players in our squad.
Xavi on our bench, Pedro on the bench, Alves as our RB
We have dropped in quality from Xavi to Gomes Denis Arda
We have dropped in quality from Pedro to Paco
Alves to Roberto

All these players who could play in the starting eleven in a big game without any problem.
Look at who we started Vs PSG in our midfield, Gomes who was horrible BTW, who did we start Vs City when we lost 3-1 Gomes.
Now go back to 2015 where we would start Xavi in such situations and then tell me that we don't have a problem in quality while we have only MSN, Busquets, and few others who would be considered as quality

2. Having Alves as our RB made Rakitic work. Alves made Rakitic a better player.
To go BBZ style
If Rakitic was a 6/10 and Alves was a 10/10. They combined to make a 8/10. The 8/10 was enough to combine with Messi 10/10. To make our right side 9/10: which was world class.

The departure of Alves has left us with 6/10 Rakitic, who with 5/10 Roberto, make a 5.5/10 on the right side.

That's a drop in quality

2. Alba is older, slower, more injury prone than before. That's a drop of quality

3. Iniesta is older, more injured, can't produce the same material every game like he used to, that's a drop of quality

4. Rakitic is now called upon to produce something he doesn't have that's a drop of quality

5. Sergi Roberto at RB instead of Alves/any other WC RB, that's a drop of quality

You asked why the team was not motivated against Juventus? Luis Enrique would answer this better.
But if you rely on solely on motivation to win big matches there will come a time when your motivation is not enough and your quality needs to back you up to produce results.

I can say Barca were extremely motivated against PSG and they carried through mainly by motivation

The same applied with the classico win (though for me it was down to Messi and Ter Steven (12 saves) than the team

Motivation dropped a little vs Juventus. At this point if we had a bit more quality this could have helped us get through but we didn't.
Down on motivation, down on quality equals 0-3 aggregate.
 

wisconsincule

Senior Member
All I've been seeing is that he's for sure signing for Madrid. The way that Real have been able to sign young talent after young talent is very impressive. I guess we tried to do something similar last year but pretty much swung and missed bar Umtiti who is class. I'm not sure why I feel so bleak about the whole thing but isn't it beneficial for club and player to get the deals done early in the summer to optimize the time for adaptation/integration to the club?
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
I am too tired to read all this in depth, but I assume I know what you're trying to say

That is classic from you tbh, answering without having full info.

But few notes:
-Is it me or you have 2 number 2 points?
-You are underrating Rakitic
-Alba is 28,he isn't at the stage of his career to lose agility,he is a year younger than Marcelo who no one claims he is old or slowing down.

-We had our biggest problem in the bench, but it is probably be better even if we stayed put. As Crujif himself said before best way to improve is from inside.
Rafinha was good last year,not great but good and productive and effective bench player. That is after missing most of the season before and being unlucky with some of the weird injuries he had. Before that Roma game he was fairly healthy so unfair to write him as injury prone player.

Gomes has ended the season better than he started it, if he stays Valverde could very well make him much better player.

Denis had his first year in the team,he was one of Liga best young players in Villarreal. He should be better next year.

Paco was shit in 1st half of the season,but very productive and effective in 2nd half. with a full preseason and a year under his belt,he should much better next year and build on what he was doing in the end of the season.

Gerard gives us a true and versatile winger,he is a bit selfish but he is coming along gradually as he showed in Milan. We have lacked a quick winger since Pedro left. Growing under MSN could get to fix his head.

Roberto started first year well,but his performance collapsed after,but he still bounced back late in the season.
Umtiti should also be better.

All are young and improving players. All should make our rotation stronger. At least those who stays.
Marlon should also provide more reliable CB than Mathiue last season. Vidal should provide a better RB rotation

This team lost 24 points last season, 16 in 1st 17 games 8 in last 21 games. Outplayed RM in both legs and got 4 points out of them.
In Liga,a better tactics is what separated us from the title. RM got all the luck in the world and still barely won it. And they were at their best last year.
In CL a more rested and better tactic team would still beat Juve,we had created many chance against them but failed to deliver and we were a mess defensively
 
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khaled_a_d

Senior Member
All I've been seeing is that he's for sure signing for Madrid. The way that Real have been able to sign young talent after young talent is very impressive. I guess we tried to do something similar last year but pretty much swung and missed bar Umtiti who is class. I'm not sure why I feel so bleak about the whole thing but isn't it beneficial for club and player to get the deals done early in the summer to optimize the time for adaptation/integration to the club?

He said yesterday he will decide in two weeks. Media from both sides are trying to generate clicks.
He has been signed for both clubs 10 times already
 

clemente

New member
All I've been seeing is that he's for sure signing for Madrid. The way that Real have been able to sign young talent after young talent is very impressive. I guess we tried to do something similar last year but pretty much swung and missed bar Umtiti who is class. I'm not sure why I feel so bleak about the whole thing but isn't it beneficial for club and player to get the deals done early in the summer to optimize the time for adaptation/integration to the club?

This one I don't understand, why would he choose to sign for Madrid? Lets say you are Ceballos, would you go to a team where you have untouchable starters Modric, Kroos, then on the bench that is desperate for minutes Isco, then there is Kovacic, possibly James too, I'm also probably missing someone. Would you go to a team where you may never even enter the pitch?
 

ronniecro

Active member
This one I don't understand, why would he choose to sign for Madrid? Lets say you are Ceballos, would you go to a team where you have untouchable starters Modric, Kroos, then on the bench that is desperate for minutes Isco, then there is Kovacic, possibly James too, I'm also probably missing someone. Would you go to a team where you may never even enter the pitch?

well if all he wants are the titles he will go there,situation has turned unfortunately for us and madrid are bigger favourites for the titles than us at the moment
 

behindbrowneyes

Well-known member
All it takes is Messi calling him after his honeymoon. Heard Ceballos is a big fan. Our players are running this club anyway.
 

Messi983

Senior Member
He said yesterday he will decide in two weeks. Media from both sides are trying to generate clicks.
He has been signed for both clubs 10 times already

Exactly. And he'll sign for both clubs another 100 times before he'll finally officialy sign somewhere, possibly with Juve. :lol:
 

RIZALDINHO

Member
i think he will move to rm because he prefers to move to rm so we should forget about trying to sign him and try to sign verratti or seri
 

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