Ernesto Valverde - V1

[MessiCam]

I don't understand one thing. We've been playing for some time with Iniesta - Busquets - Rakitić midfield. They are slow, can't run enough and besides, Rakitić doesn't perform well out wide. WHY, ffs, you expect it'll be different this time? Where was that midfield this match? Nowhere to be seen.

Suarez is not a LW, Iniesta has to cover, just as Alba... dead left side, dead midfield... our good defensive record comes from the compact midfield, some strength and great CB pairing, which we never lacked.

Needs to be accepted: our midfield is not good enough for 433 and heavy possession football.

This was not a 4-3-3 though. This was a 4-2-3-1 in the beginning which quickly became a 4-4-2 due Rakitic and Busquets being overrun.

We were 1-0 up after 3 minutes, tbf it is normal that we sit back
The bad thing is our midfield not being able to move the ball much, which is more on player today than him. even defenders settled many times with just clearing the ball. Iniesta while still producing some amazing moments wasn't able to provide enough control, when Raki and Busquets were able to hold the ball things were better. Dembele did almost nothing in build up either.

Hold on...

How do you expect Iniesta to provide control and Dembélé to aide in build up when they're playing wide in a 4-4-2?

I posted this in another thread, but Iniesta's only outlet when playing wide is Alba...

He made 4 passes to Busquets, 3 to Suárez, 2 to Messi and Rakitic and a grand total of 21 to Alba. When your most creative midfielder is left to moving balls almost solely to the full back then you have big problems and can't expect control. Iniesta is a CM too but is playing wide because Valverde continues to shoehorn Messi and Suárez into central positions and as a consequence is giving up the midfield. It might work against smaller teams but it's a tough sell against the elite.

It's the same with Dembélé. You and I had this very conversation of not playing him wide in a 4-4-2. There is too much associative play for him at this stage (luckily he stepped up defensively). He should be up field in the half space causing issues for his fullback and playing one-twos with Messi and Suárez. He really shouldn't be concerning himself with everything that comes with midfield duty.

Kante and Fabregas had Rakitic and Busquets in their pockets all game... And the players were not the problem it was just a lack of passing options. We had no numerical superiority in midfield whatsoever.

I'm still waiting for someone on this board to answer what I asked many moons ago... So maybe you can now.

How do you establish numerical superiority in midfield with a double pivot without sacrificing your width?

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Better be so, because the way we defended is not good enough to stop the better attacking team from scoring.

This is what I saw as well. Any better team would have finished 3-4 goals in that game. We were poor defensively, especially our midfield was overrun by Chelsea. Our defense was good, esp. Pique/Umtiti, but midfield couldn't defend well enough vs speedy players like Hazard and Willian.

 

[BarçaBarça]

Got us through to the quater-finals against the defending champions in the PL, with great goals and an attacking-minded setup before the injuries!
Celebration and happy times

 

[Blaugrana Bull]

Better be so, because the way we defended is not good enough to stop the better attacking team from scoring.

The way we defended this season we stopped every big team from scoring enough to beat us.

 

[Horatio]

4-3-3 to score goals then revert to a 4-4-2 to defend the lead seems to be the winning formula.

 

[KingLeo10]

juve 3-0
juve 0-0
atletico 1-1
real 3-0
chelsea 1-1
atletico 1-0
chelsea 3-0

4 W, 3 D, 0 L in the big games this season

12 scored, only 2 conceded

call it fortune or having messi or whatever. aside from the times under pep and 14/15 lucho, these are the best results I've seen barca get in the top games. and the goals conceded is the most staggering part of the record.

 

[Barcaman]

[tw]974041317750853632[/tw]

 

[Horatio]

One of the biggest differences for me is defending against setpieces. Used to have to change shorts everytime we gave away a corner. Now I am confident as @*#&.

 

[Vilarrubi]

juve 3-0
juve 0-0
atletico 1-1
real 3-0
chelsea 1-1
atletico 1-0
chelsea 3-0

4 W, 3 D, 0 L in the big games this season

12 scored, only 2 conceded

call it fortune or having messi or whatever. aside from the times under pep and 14/15 lucho, these are the best results I've seen barca get in the top games. and the goals conceded is the most staggering part of the record.

Solid! GOATVERDE

 

[Joan]

One of the biggest differences for me is defending against setpieces. Used to have to change shorts everytime we gave away a corner. Now I am confident as @*#&.

This. Truely amazing.

Last year I was changing the chanell every time we were defending a corner.

 

[FCBfan22]

Not only at defending corners, we have become somewhat of a threat from them.

 

[Horatio]

Not only at defending corners, we have become somewhat of a threat from them.

Yeah, I actually wanted to include that as well in my initial post.

Although we still don't score from corners as much as we'd like to, we seem far more dangerous from them. They looked utterly pointless the last few seasons.

 

[FCBfan22]

Ah, the good times under Pep, when getting a corner was basically the same as getting a goal kick...

 

[khaled_a_d]

This was not a 4-3-3 though. This was a 4-2-3-1 in the beginning which quickly became a 4-4-2 due Rakitic and Busquets being overrun.



Hold on...

How do you expect Iniesta to provide control and Dembélé to aide in build up when they're playing wide in a 4-4-2?

I posted this in another thread, but Iniesta's only outlet when playing wide is Alba...

He made 4 passes to Busquets, 3 to Suárez, 2 to Messi and Rakitic and a grand total of 21 to Alba. When your most creative midfielder is left to moving balls almost solely to the full back then you have big problems and can't expect control. Iniesta is a CM too but is playing wide because Valverde continues to shoehorn Messi and Suárez into central positions and as a consequence is giving up the midfield. It might work against smaller teams but it's a tough sell against the elite.

It's the same with Dembélé. You and I had this very conversation of not playing him wide in a 4-4-2. There is too much associative play for him at this stage (luckily he stepped up defensively). He should be up field in the half space causing issues for his fullback and playing one-twos with Messi and Suárez. He really shouldn't be concerning himself with everything that comes with midfield duty.

Kante and Fabregas had Rakitic and Busquets in their pockets all game... And the players were not the problem it was just a lack of passing options. We had no numerical superiority in midfield whatsoever.

I'm still waiting for someone on this board to answer what I asked many moons ago... So maybe you can now.

How do you establish numerical superiority in midfield with a double pivot without sacrificing your width?

Iniesta and Paulinho when he plays were never a true wide player, they are LCM more or less, not a true wingers. They were always present to provide help in the middle which is one of the reasons we still has possession in high rate this year. It decrease pressure on Iniesta but he is still a controller. It adds more midfielder not the opposite.
Dembele didn't do that last night at all, instead was awful in passing and always giving safe ball to the man behind (Raki/Roberto) and Iniesta himself wasn't good.

 

[henias]

Iniesta and Paulinho when he plays were never a true wide player, they are LCM more or less, not a true wingers. They were always present to provide help in the middle which is one of the reasons we still has possession in high rate this year. It decrease pressure on Iniesta but he is still a controller. It adds more midfielder not the opposite.
Dembele didn't do that last night at all, instead was awful in passing and always giving safe ball to the man behind (Raki/Roberto) and Iniesta himself wasn't good.

The double pivot isnt really useful while attacking, it's mostly just Iniesta, Messi and Dembele being outnumbered while Suarez is way upfront. Plus they were all sitting very deep in their box and can hardly transition at all and Chelsea's pressing caused alot of problems. Couldnt blame them. Busquets/Iniesta/ Rakitic were all misplacing passes.

The double pivot will be more useful for the workhorses as they can physically win and drive the balls forward.

But if one were to play Busquets, Rakitic and Iniesta it's better to have a 433. Because in a 442 they are easily pressed and overrun.