Ernesto Valverde - V1

[KingLeo10]

Valverde will get another chance, but if he gets the right signings and still continue his gutless style then he should go mid-season.

we should know before next season if he's learned or if he will persist with his mid-table mentality, even if given 100-200 m signings.

if we secure liga versus deportivo and dembele doesn't start every remaining match to get integrated, then valverde should be sacked on the spot.

 

[Neeraj]

I agree with both Serghei and Devils - I think Valverde is completely clueless, but I also think there's an issue with our roster.

1.) Mobility - Iniesta, Pique, Messi, Suarez, Busquets, Rakitic - That's 6 players who have no mobility. Okay, you can exclude Messi in this argument because he's the GOAT, but the point is, half the team has 0 mobility, and will get outrun by pretty much anyone who isn't a turtle. Then you have Roberto, who isn't quick, and Umtiti, who's alright, but isn't a Varane and will get outsprinted by quicker players too.

2.) Attitude and Hunger - The majority of the players mentioned above do NOT fight for the FCB shirt like they should be, not in CL for sure. With Iniesta leaving, that's still close to half the team that's really not that motivated. I think the problem is that we think we have this 'style' that allows us to chill out and play at our tempo. But this is an illusion and most of us saw the Roma thrashing coming. We DO NOT have the technical ability at this stage to walk games and still be better. We are always going to get run over. Look at the PSG, Juvenuts, Roma games - what's common? People were gliding past our midfield like it was non existent.

3.) Tactics - Even under Lucho, when we talk about bringing intensity back, it only seems to be about that immediate ball retrieving press. We need a high intensity game both on and off the ball. I think people get satiated if they see some pressing of the ball, but we need continuous runs - real and decoy, and fasten the pace of the game. We cannot always pass backwards and then whine about teams being 11 behind the ball. Look at how Liverpool is intense when in possession, not just off it. I think we haven't seen this, not even from Lucho (pass to MSN and let them counter is not what I'm talking about). Our standard model of play is slowing things down, especially when it goes to the wings, because there's hardly any options in the center, except a fumbling Suarez, if at all he makes it in time.

There's a lot of work ahead for the management of this club, but it seems difficult to have faith that his board of corrupt suits will have the intention and gumption to do what's required, because it may result in short term pains.

 

[Raketa10]

we should know before next season if he's learned or if he will persist with his mid-table mentality, even if given 100-200 m signings.

if we secure liga versus deportivo and dembele doesn't start every remaining match to get integrated, then valverde should be sacked on the spot.

I bet he will play 4-4-2 with Dembele probably on the bench until the end of season. First of all I am willing to bet that against Depor he won’t risk anything and after we secure La Liga he will continue to hunt that “unbeaten” record.

If he has any brain left he should give a rest to Messi after we secure La Liga and try to play Demebele and Alena as much as possible but I am sure he won’t do that.

He should also rest Pique and give chance to Mina so we can see if he is good enough or not. This would be the perfect time to test players but I am affraid he doesn’t care about that.

 

[footyfan]

I think the lack of intensity is the main thing to blame. When Barca play with intensity, they manage to trump almost any opposition or situation. There are indeed structural problems such as the formation that make it more difficult, but the personnel simply do not look like they have it in them to play at a high intensity in more than 3-4 matches a season. This is especially true of Messi and Suarez.

Tactically, the Roma games were a disaster too though. So it was not just intensity there. But in general, over the past few years, I think the lack of intensity was the main thing to blame. That's 4 times in the last 5 years that Barca got knocked out in the QFs. This is Arsenal-level stuff.

I get that people keep bringing up how Messi saved Barca in the league, but the truth is Messi's lazy GOAT shtick does not work as well in the CL because teams simply play more intense in that competition. Against intense teams, Messi is a liability unless Barca themselves match that intensity. And to make matters worse for Barca, Suarez is a liability too in the last couple of years - not only with his lack of basic first touch and passing skills, but his immobility upfront. Iniesta and Rakitic are hampered in part by the tactical set up, which is in turn used to accommodate the two lazy bums upfront.

I see a lot of people writing the Roma second leg as a one-off, but that is just the culmination of an entire season of shit-on-a-stick football. Besides the first Juventus game, Barca were simply not good enough to be contenders at any point of the CL campaign. Chelsea were fairly unlucky over the two legs of R16, and the rest of the group stage games OG might have been the topscorer. Messi's talent and quality may be enough to beat teams in La Liga (where believe it or not, the intensity is generally lower - even amongst teams that play both in LL and CL - eg Atleti and RM) but it's simply not enough in the CL.

I am unsure exactly what Barca's internal team/coach dynamics are, but in general I'd say both are to blame for a lack of intensity. You cannot convince me that it is simply impossible to play with intensity with the current squad because they did show that against Sevilla in the cup final (maybe because Iniesta's last final?). Granted Sevilla played a suicidal high line combined with defensive mistakes - but based on how Barca played with the ball, we all could see a clear difference. I would agree if you said that it is impossible to keep playing with intensity in most games with this squad. But with a commanding lead in the league, there should have been a better way to prioritize the CL. There's just no way around the fact that this was a historic failure on many levels.

 

[serghei]

I think the lack of intensity is the main thing to blame. When Barca play with intensity, they manage to trump almost any opposition or situation. There are indeed structural problems such as the formation that make it more difficult, but the personnel simply do not look like they have it in them to play at a high intensity in more than 3-4 matches a season. This is especially true of Messi and Suarez.

Tactically, the Roma games were a disaster too though. So it was not just intensity there. But in general, over the past few years, I think the lack of intensity was the main thing to blame. That's 4 times in the last 5 years that Barca got knocked out in the QFs. This is Arsenal-level stuff.

I get that people keep bringing up how Messi saved Barca in the league, but the truth is Messi's lazy GOAT shtick does not work as well in the CL because teams simply play more intense in that competition. Against intense teams, Messi is a liability unless Barca themselves match that intensity. And to make matters worse for Barca, Suarez is a liability too in the last couple of years - not only with his lack of basic first touch and passing skills, but his immobility upfront. Iniesta and Rakitic are hampered in part by the tactical set up, which is in turn used to accommodate the two lazy bums upfront.

I see a lot of people writing the Roma second leg as a one-off, but that is just the culmination of an entire season of shit-on-a-stick football. Besides the first Juventus game, Barca were simply not good enough to be contenders at any point of the CL campaign. Chelsea were fairly unlucky over the two legs of R16, and the rest of the group stage games OG might have been the topscorer. Messi's talent and quality may be enough to beat teams in La Liga (where believe it or not, the intensity is generally lower - even amongst teams that play both in LL and CL - eg Atleti and RM) but it's simply not enough in the CL.

I am unsure exactly what Barca's internal team/coach dynamics are, but in general I'd say both are to blame for a lack of intensity. You cannot convince me that it is simply impossible to play with intensity with the current squad because they did show that against Sevilla in the cup final (maybe because Iniesta's last final?). Granted Sevilla played a suicidal high line combined with defensive mistakes - but based on how Barca played with the ball, we all could see a clear difference. I would agree if you said that it is impossible to keep playing with intensity in most games with this squad. But with a commanding lead in the league, there should have been a better way to prioritize the CL. There's just no way around the fact that this was a historic failure on many levels.

Yep. This comment will really bother the die hard Messi fans here, but the truth is how he showed up in CL in the last 3 years is not worthy of even a top 3 player in the world, let alone the best. The intensity part imo is down to the manager the most. It's his damn job. Actually, the most important part in being a Barca manager, considering the players you have at your disposal, is to make them play to the best of their ability in the right moments and don't screw up the tactics. He managed to royally fail on both counts. Peak level of play, there is absolutely no difference between Barca and Real Madrid. It's actually a toss-up in terms of who wins. The difference is though that Madrid show up when it matters and Barca don't.

 

[Hamzah]

I agree. I think Barca have lacked intensity and dynamism with and without the ball. Young players are arriving though and I think they need a calm experienced “teacher” type of coach. Also the new players actually have what you would call “Barca DNA” so I think it’s possible to play that style again.

Valverde does have that type of personality but he showed his lack of experience with this poor squad management especially in getting players to arrive at the big champions league games in the right mental and physical state. His tactics also lacked Barca DNA. I actually applauded that approach in the short term because the players weren’t capable of Barca football and I felt that Barca just needed a trophy in their cabinet to stop the Madrid dominance and have something to build on.

Things are different in this summer compared to last summer though. New young players with technical ability are here and if the board is smart a couple more will arrive. If valverde goes back to a more traditional Barca style and moulds these players they can win things in the future. He needs to learn from his mistakes and rotate his squad better next season and have better game management in champions league.

 

[PhilS]

Valverde will get another chance, but if he gets the right signings or requests some average bums of his own and still continue his gutless style then he should go mid-season.

If he can integrate the new talent coming in this summer as well as the Coutinho integration has gone, we won't be hearing all these gripes on this forum. Also, he will be judged next year for the continued integration and development of Dembele and Semedo. Insufficient depth this season led to the tiredness that was the main cause of the Rome disaster. The front office and Valverde must face a reckoning next season unless the quality depth improves.

On the current squad, the quality of depth we need to compete for the treble comes from Dembele, Semedo, Cillessen, and Vermaelen. Paulinho for the first half of this season only. This list is just not long enough, not with Iniesta leaving and such an old first 11.

 

[xXKonan]

Messi was immobile vs Roma but I think the worst case I have seen in the last couple of years was when we were playing Atletico in the CL during the 2015/16 season at the Calderon all Messi did was stand in a small area of the pitch and did not move much at all.

I remember being frustrated as hell about that as we didn't know if he was injured or just lazy then.

 

[serghei]

Messi was immobile vs Roma but I think the worst case I have seen in the last couple of years was when we were playing Atletico in the CL during the 2015/16 season at the Calderon all Messi did was stand in a small area of the pitch and did not move much at all.

I remember being frustrated as hell about that as we didn't know if he was injured or just lazy then.

It's his career in the end. If he likes seeing Ronaldo catching ground and winning the biggest titles lately, fine by me.

Shouldn't in any way be paid 100m net or some absurd sum like that. That was stupid from us.

 

[DonAK]

It's his career in the end. If he likes seeing Ronaldo catching ground and winning the biggest titles lately, fine by me.

Shouldn't in any way be paid 100m net or some absurd sum like that. That was stupid from us.

While I agree Messi should move more, It's not like that will turn Suarez into a useful player and our slow, turtle like midfield into Liverpool.

 

[KingLeo10]

I think the lack of intensity is the main thing to blame. When Barca play with intensity, they manage to trump almost any opposition or situation. There are indeed structural problems such as the formation that make it more difficult, but the personnel simply do not look like they have it in them to play at a high intensity in more than 3-4 matches a season. This is especially true of Messi and Suarez.

Tactically, the Roma games were a disaster too though. So it was not just intensity there. But in general, over the past few years, I think the lack of intensity was the main thing to blame. That's 4 times in the last 5 years that Barca got knocked out in the QFs. This is Arsenal-level stuff.

I get that people keep bringing up how Messi saved Barca in the league, but the truth is Messi's lazy GOAT shtick does not work as well in the CL because teams simply play more intense in that competition. Against intense teams, Messi is a liability unless Barca themselves match that intensity. And to make matters worse for Barca, Suarez is a liability too in the last couple of years - not only with his lack of basic first touch and passing skills, but his immobility upfront. Iniesta and Rakitic are hampered in part by the tactical set up, which is in turn used to accommodate the two lazy bums upfront.

I see a lot of people writing the Roma second leg as a one-off, but that is just the culmination of an entire season of shit-on-a-stick football. Besides the first Juventus game, Barca were simply not good enough to be contenders at any point of the CL campaign. Chelsea were fairly unlucky over the two legs of R16, and the rest of the group stage games OG might have been the topscorer. Messi's talent and quality may be enough to beat teams in La Liga (where believe it or not, the intensity is generally lower - even amongst teams that play both in LL and CL - eg Atleti and RM) but it's simply not enough in the CL.

I am unsure exactly what Barca's internal team/coach dynamics are, but in general I'd say both are to blame for a lack of intensity. You cannot convince me that it is simply impossible to play with intensity with the current squad because they did show that against Sevilla in the cup final (maybe because Iniesta's last final?). Granted Sevilla played a suicidal high line combined with defensive mistakes - but based on how Barca played with the ball, we all could see a clear difference. I would agree if you said that it is impossible to keep playing with intensity in most games with this squad. But with a commanding lead in the league, there should have been a better way to prioritize the CL. There's just no way around the fact that this was a historic failure on many levels.

post should be pinned at the top of every discussion regarding the current state of barca. accurate from top to bottom.

 

[DonAK]

Zidane has an away goal.

Takes out Isco for Asensio to play on the break to win.

That's what a real manager does.

 

[DonAK]

And again.

Lead 1-2

Two away goals.

And he subs in Benzema. Going for the kill. Against Bayern.

 

[xXKonan]

Zidane has an away goal.

Takes out Isco for Asensio to play on the break to win.

That's what a real manager does.

Lets sub in a mentally fragile Andre Gomes instead of our 150 million euro signing!

 

[KingLeo10]

And again.

Lead 1-2

Two away goals.

And he subs in Benzema. Going for the kill. Against Bayern.

he used to play in and win WC finals and CL finals...

valverde's best achievement was stealing a win from a barca on vacation in the supercopa