Raketa10
Senior Member
Not even similar!!! During that ENTIRE SEASON in La Liga we conceded 21 goals! So far this season we conceded 18 goals!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited:
Not even similar!!! During that ENTIRE SEASON in La Liga we conceded 21 goals! So far this season we conceded 18 goals!!!!!!!!!!!!
George_Costanza
Active member
I'm happy to see BBZ liked your post so I know I'm right lol
4-2-3-1 formation with a double pivot will only hinder Messi's abilities of free-role! You are asking for the worse possible formation for a free-role dependent team as we have. It's a narrow formation that packs the midfield and it will deny any space for Messi and with no focal point, the attacking would seem clueless. It's football impossibility and defies the purpose of the free-roaming role! It was this 4-2-3-1 tactic used by Mourinho to congest the midfield by assigning several players to the defensive midfield role (parking the bus) to shunt the false 9 (Messi) out of the game.
Some of you really influenced by the conservative/pragmatic football that want to see a team so much attacking talents to park the bus. Forgetting that the best way to defend is to attack and have ball possession on your opponent's half.
henias
New member
Yeah, 4231 wouldnt work well and proved time and time again to be ineffective. The possession style wouldnt suit a 4231 and 433 is the best for possession style play. Regardless where you play Messi, he will still roam free centrally, so might as well stick to his most comfortable position, which is the false 9 role.
Raketa10
Senior Member
George we can argue about 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 but let's be honest here 4-3-3 is impossible with the free-role Messi is playing nowadays! It's interesting you are referring to our possible ATTACKING PROBLEMS in 4-2-3-1 while you see no problem in conceding 18 times in 12 games?!?! What a great control we have in that 4-3-3! This is the right way of playing if we want to lose every single trophy this year! You seam to forget that for playing possession football you also need to have great positional awareness and non stop movement, something we lack these days. Also bare in mind that we had high ball possession against Inter and we basically played 4-5-1. I honestly can't understand why are some of you obsessed with that 4-3-3?! Do you remember when was the last time we played proper 4-3-3?! It was in 2014/15 when Messi was willing to play on the right wing and he clearly doesn't want to do that anymore. So in order to utilize him properly and stop conceding like maniacs we need to change something and we need to do that ASAP.
Look I hate boring football and I would be delighted if we could play like we did in Pep's era but that's not possible with our current squad.
Last edited:
henias
New member
[MENTION=20770]Raketa10[/MENTION] Look, you really shouldn't take Ev's 433 as an example. EV afterall is still using the same Lucho's lineup but instilled alot of conservatism in play. A poorly executed 433 with no idea how to cause problems for the opponent will result in more men able to deploy forward to counter attack. Moreover, Betis was hardly parking the bus but still is able to dominate in a much effecient and effective manner. They attack in a systematic fashion and is able to utilise fast wingers and transition quickly. Like I said, till now I can hardly see any pattern in attacking and our wingers look clueless in this setup. Messi is naturally not a winger as well. Every match it's the same systemless, structureless way of attack.
Not to mention, Valverde himself dug his own grave by overplaying too many players. Fatigue got the better of them and no doubt it would crumble.
Other systems like 4231/442 requires constant pressing and man/zonal marking which is still not our forte at all. Such system also got dismantled by Levante last season, in case you seem to forget.
High risk, high reward only comes with a proper system and attacking roles. Under Valverde, I hardly see any and it would definitely be high risk, low reward. Nothing wrong with 433, plenty of teams are using it and still suit our possession style of play. (There's no way we will ditch possession football anyway)
433 doesnt always automatically mean Pep's era. Even Pep himself recognise the need for fast wingers, and physical wingbacks that could be useful in both counter attack and possession play. No one can effectively replicate Pep's days anyway so I doubt anyone would attempt that.
Not to mention, Valverde himself dug his own grave by overplaying too many players. Fatigue got the better of them and no doubt it would crumble.
Other systems like 4231/442 requires constant pressing and man/zonal marking which is still not our forte at all. Such system also got dismantled by Levante last season, in case you seem to forget.
High risk, high reward only comes with a proper system and attacking roles. Under Valverde, I hardly see any and it would definitely be high risk, low reward. Nothing wrong with 433, plenty of teams are using it and still suit our possession style of play. (There's no way we will ditch possession football anyway)
433 doesnt always automatically mean Pep's era. Even Pep himself recognise the need for fast wingers, and physical wingbacks that could be useful in both counter attack and possession play. No one can effectively replicate Pep's days anyway so I doubt anyone would attempt that.
I just re-watched the first half against Betis. 2:0 was not a correct score, both teams had about same number of chances but Betis execution was better.
What was most striking was the amount of space given to Betis attackers by our defense. When they scored their second goal there was no defender even in the vicinity and Betis had a second unmarked player close by. They typically had extra 1-2 players attacking compared to Barças defenders.
That's on the coach and he never reacted, just kept going with his system.
Valverde was out-coached and our players did not try hard enough. Big difference to mid-week game in Milano where our players were trying hard and looked motivated.
Also, Betis has some very fine players, fast and sharp.
What was most striking was the amount of space given to Betis attackers by our defense. When they scored their second goal there was no defender even in the vicinity and Betis had a second unmarked player close by. They typically had extra 1-2 players attacking compared to Barças defenders.
That's on the coach and he never reacted, just kept going with his system.
Valverde was out-coached and our players did not try hard enough. Big difference to mid-week game in Milano where our players were trying hard and looked motivated.
Also, Betis has some very fine players, fast and sharp.
Raketa10
Senior Member
I agree on Valverde 100% and in some points I agree about 4-3-3 but can you please elaborate where would you position Messi in 4-3-3? You said for yourself that he is not a natural winger and I sincerely doubt that "false 9" with Suarez benched (or played on the left wing) is the way to go. Also if you plan to put Messi on RW than can you please elaborate how would you solve that empty right side because I honestly don't see a solution with our current roster. To be fair not even a young Dani Alves could cover those acres of empty space alone. In 2014/15 season Messi was willing to play as a winger but now he clearly isn't willing to do that anymore.
Last edited:
Messigician
Senior Member
Noobs Messi is Shadow striker aka CF so he can create and attack. Bergkampf type player so works well in a 442 which is turned into a 4411 when messi drops deeper.
And yes I do have a solution to the formation problem.
Suarez Messi
Coutinho
Alba Arthur Busquets Roberto
Pique De Jong Umtiti
Ter Stegen
And yes I do have a solution to the formation problem.
Suarez Messi
Coutinho
Alba Arthur Busquets Roberto
Pique De Jong Umtiti
Ter Stegen
Raketa10
Senior Member
Agree with you on Messi observation but can we try to keep the discussion in the present? De Jong is not FC Barca player, we need to find a solution with our current roster.
Last edited:
God Serena
New member
They still broadcast, they're just not carried by DirectTV or Comcast, who have the majority of the market share. I think at this time only Spectrum is the only major service that still carries them.
henias
New member
I have always maintained Suarez as LWF is the only way to go because Alba adopted an attacking role since the departure of Dani Alvez and has done very well in that area. Only thing I wish Alba to improve is more on his high crossing and unpredicatibilty on that left hand side. But on the plus side he proved to be a good scorer as well. His role can cover Suarez like how Dani Alves did for Messi.
Messi should just go back to his most comfortable false 9 role like you said he doesnt play like a winger anymore.
Our right side is the biggest loophole so we cant depend on a single RB to cover anymore. A more defensive RB like Semedo and a fast/versatile winger like Malcom/Dembele can do the job pretty well. Valverde ditched the idea for some reason after trying it against Juventus and Girona. Even if he did, Roberto would be shoehorned into the midfield which messes up the direct fast paced right flank.
Roberto-Malcom combo or Semedo-Dembele combo, these two right flank options can be rotated. The latter can also be very useful for counter attacking in late games as well. Coutinho can be rotated for both Suarez or Messi and take that LW position.
Ocassionally, we can try Coutinho as LM/CM and Vidal as another combination, Alba to drop deeper to aid in a 4 men counter attack.
Messigician
Senior Member
Just replace De Jong with Lenglet same thing
The more I read this forum, the more I think that our fan base is one of the most spoiled and demanding one out there. We trashed Real 5:1 (and last season 0:3), we're still first in La Liga, we're still 1st in a tough group in which we've already secured our place in the knockout stage. I don't get what some of the fans still want? We're still in a poll position to win the treble this season. Fans are overracting after this defeat to Real Betis like it's the end of the world. Bad matches happen. Let's be happy that these kind of matches are happening in the beginning of the season and not in the knockout phase of the CL. If we're bad in the beginning of the season, we'll flourish at the end of it. To some extent this season reminds me of the 2014/15 treble season. After a bad start to the season we stepped up in the Spring when it mattered the most.
EV is getting too much criticism imo. Everyone is just focusing on the negative points, overreacting on the current bad patch of form and result. I think that we should be grateful that we have a decent manager, capable of winning big matches and titles. I'll try to present you some positive points since he was appointed here as a manager:
1. He managed the team to win the La liga last season comfortably, losing only 1 (yes, 1!) match in the entire season of La Liga, which was an insane achievement for his first season here.
2. He managed the team to win CdR last season, starting his managerial career with a double.
3. His tactics put Real to it's place winning 0:3 last season and 5:1 this season.
I trust EV to do fine until the end of the season. We could go deep in the CL this season, Messi is very motivated and the team is playing amazingly so far in this competition. Currently I don't see any team that can match us. Maybe only City, but Pep has a soft hard for Messi and their defence is too bad to contain our attack so I don't believe that they would advance.
EV is getting too much criticism imo. Everyone is just focusing on the negative points, overreacting on the current bad patch of form and result. I think that we should be grateful that we have a decent manager, capable of winning big matches and titles. I'll try to present you some positive points since he was appointed here as a manager:
1. He managed the team to win the La liga last season comfortably, losing only 1 (yes, 1!) match in the entire season of La Liga, which was an insane achievement for his first season here.
2. He managed the team to win CdR last season, starting his managerial career with a double.
3. His tactics put Real to it's place winning 0:3 last season and 5:1 this season.
I trust EV to do fine until the end of the season. We could go deep in the CL this season, Messi is very motivated and the team is playing amazingly so far in this competition. Currently I don't see any team that can match us. Maybe only City, but Pep has a soft hard for Messi and their defence is too bad to contain our attack so I don't believe that they would advance.
Neymessi
Active member
leave it to you to dream of a PSG win (with neydive) over any other club that you could have thrown in there.
Raketa10
Senior Member
I don't think Suarez can play as a LWF since he doesn't have speed or passing abilites for that. He should play exactly where he plays today. By moving him more to the left you would basically neutralize him completely. Messi as a "false 9" also would't work anymore since he likes to play much deeper these days. He is more second striker or even CAM without defensive responsibilities. If you want to play with false 9 Suarez can't be in starting 11. This is the reason I see 4-4-2 or even 4-2-3-1 a way better solution if you want to incorporate both Suarez and Messi.
That being said I hate 4-4-2 but I as I said I don't belive 4-3-3 is possible with this squad. I hope they prove me wrong.
Last edited:
Home of Barca Fans
