Yeah well Lucho had warning signs as well.
Yeah well Lucho had warning signs as well.
You've got me mixed up with someone else bud .
Lukaku is useless and nowhere near good enough for a mediocre team like ManU . Richards has never ever been on my radar ..
You know I like skilful / technical players ..
De Boer managed Barca?
Leo_Messi
New member
He just admitted (publicly) that he does not think long-term or have any long-term plans. Thanks for confirming the obvious.
How about the useless board actually signing a long-term option that could leave some kind of useful heritage and not a stepping stone manager that barely manages to think 12 months ahead? Now it all makes sense why the club is slowly but steadily leaving the Cruyff model more and more for each year. There is zero direction and long-term visions and planning. Something that has been evident for I don't know how long.
Who the hell runs a entreprise this big without any long-term visions or directions? It's criminal how badly run this club has been ever since Rosell and his crooks appeared.
Incredibly difficult to disagree with Font's plans of professionalizing the club and in particular the board's role. It's an outdated system IMO and it shows. In particular when the club ends up in the wrong hands.
How about the useless board actually signing a long-term option that could leave some kind of useful heritage and not a stepping stone manager that barely manages to think 12 months ahead? Now it all makes sense why the club is slowly but steadily leaving the Cruyff model more and more for each year. There is zero direction and long-term visions and planning. Something that has been evident for I don't know how long.Who the hell runs a entreprise this big without any long-term visions or directions? It's criminal how badly run this club has been ever since Rosell and his crooks appeared.
Incredibly difficult to disagree with Font's plans of professionalizing the club and in particular the board's role. It's an outdated system IMO and it shows. In particular when the club ends up in the wrong hands.
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messi2140
6racies Xavi
He just admitted (publicly) that he does not think long-term or have any long-term plans. Thanks for confirming the obvious.
Who the hell runs a entreprise this big without any long-term visions or directions? It's criminal how badly run this club has been ever since Rosell and his crooks appeared.
When you have a cheat code like Messi alot of choices and decisions no matter how bad or incompetent they are wont have any consequences yet.
Joan
Well-known member
He just admitted (publicly) that he does not think long-term or have any long-term plans. Thanks for confirming the obvious.
Who the hell runs a entreprise this big without any long-term visions or directions? It's criminal how badly run this club has been ever since Rosell and his crooks appeared.
Incredibly difficult to disagree with Font's plans of professionalizing the club and in particular the board's role. It's an outdated system IMO and it shows. In particular when the club ends up in the wrong hands.
A quote would be appreciated.
Leo_Messi
New member
Here you go.
“No sé qué haré la próxima temporada. En esto del fútbol, quién lo sabe. Todos sabemos cómo son las cosas. No pienso nunca en largo o larguísimo plazo. Para nosotros, dos meses son larguísimo plazo. Si ganas un partido, todo el mundo está contento y si lo pierdes, todos te están mirando. Yo lo que quiero es que todos estén satisfechos con el trabajo. Pero no nos vamos a engañar. Si no ganas la Liga, todo el mundo mira al entrenador porque está marcado así. Intento cumplir los objetivos y, claro, como nos queda tanto, pues vamos a verlo”, aseguró Valverde.
https://www.mundodeportivo.com/futb...32/barca-valverde-tv-entrevista-contrato.html
He is basically admitting to having no long-term visions or plans while claiming that looking 2 months forward is a very long timeframe.
He does not even know what he will do next season, using the "I will be crucified if I don't win the league title" argument, hence I am unable to have any long-term plans or visions. Only thinking about short term success. I could care less about the youth, only Coutinho's lack of form has made me bet on Dembélé on a more consistent basis etc. It's clear as day and night. Always was.
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serghei
Senior Member
Not everyone can achieve short terms results while still having long term planning and vision. Those managers are rare. Sadly, most managers who think a bit long term don't have the results short term and big clubs need immediate results or shit's gonna hit the fan very fast. And the ones who bring short term success are dudes like Valverde who sacrifice plenty of things for that sort of impact.
Now, of course a club like Barca, Madrid etc. can achieve short term success without losing steps in planning the medium to long term strategy. They have the resources for that, but the human decision factor is always problematic.
Now, of course a club like Barca, Madrid etc. can achieve short term success without losing steps in planning the medium to long term strategy. They have the resources for that, but the human decision factor is always problematic.
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Leo_Messi
New member
That is true but in our case, given the club's dominance in domestic competitions in the past decade, it would not require much long-term planing or many visions to give the youth a bigger chance, to give our youngsters more consistent and frequent game time, to limit the playing time of certain seniors etc. To not buy players like Paulinho for 40 million euros etc.
I am a nobody in football but I think that I would be able to do that if I had 100% authority to do that and backing from the board. Now what prevents a 1 billion times more accomplished person (Valverde) from doing that if not a lack of visions, guts etc.?
Look at Pep at Man City for instance. Look at the rebuilding that he is doing. I know, that money is not a problem for Man City, but neither it is for us. Look at his transfers and their pattern. Young, hungry and not very accomplished players. There is a pattern. There is well-defined playing style. Sensible rotations. Can we say the same about Valverde?
I know that his job is not the easiest but nobody here should try to tell me that it would be impossible or overly difficult to do things just a little bit differently. In particular as this is not his debut season. I will give, as I told earlier, Valverde the benefit of the doubt at least until April and May but if I see him committing the same mistakes in the next 3 months as last year, it will be hard to make excuses for him.
I don't care about short-term success if that means that Valverde's successor will be left with a huge mess. Say an old and not hungry squad, a squad that is not balanced etc.
I better live with 1 "failed" (trophy less season in our case) season if I can see a red pattern and some long-term planning and light at the end of the tunnel. Think about the 2003-4 season. We were close to winning the league that season and catching Valencia but ended up not winning everything but you could clearly see that it was just a question of time. I remember people talking about this openly in the Camp Nou as well. Even the local papers had a positive vibe and could see the same exact thing emerging. Why? Because at last (post-Gaspart) there was a sense of direction and purpose. Player recruitment had improved, Frank was implementing a system and was hungry for success as was the entire club etc.
Not even going to talk about the playing style under Valverde. For instance the most recent game. That second half performance against Celta was scandalous. Such a lethargic performance is unacceptable and should never be repeated for the reminder of the season if this teams wants to win this season.
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Leo_Messi
New member
It's all interconnected. Valverde does not have the authority that Lucho had, the same personality or mentality nor the same legacy at the club. Aside from, maybe most importantly, the same respect.
Valverde knows that he cannot win a war against the veterans so he lets them decide and influence more than they should. Which is ideally nothing. That is why you won't see any consequences at all (or even talk about it in public) or reactions when Suárez or Messi refuse to give passes (repeatedly) to a wide open Dembélé or when Suárez openly gesticulates against Dembélé and others (as last season against Deulofeu and others) during a game. That would never have happened more than once under Pep. He would have made sure of this.
Let's not even talk about the rotations.
Basically what the seniors need more than anything (if you ask me) is a stern accomplished manager (with the right profile that would give him a natural aura of respect) who will be able to "put them in their place" when they cross the line and who can ignite some fire in them. Similar to what Lucho did post-Real (San Sebastián away). Rest (that season) was history.
Since the seniors have become complacent after winning all those trophies and securing their legacies, they of course would prefer a yes-man like Valverde who demands as little as possible and who has no firm hand. That is why you have guys like Messi and others openly saying how they would like Valverde to continue which is disappointing if you ask me but also understandable since they are selfish (naturally) individuals. A manager like him would look away if say Piqué said that he would not want de Ligt to arrive as he has a lot to offer yet. The same seniors, even though they are accomplished and complacent will nevertheless, like any other player, prefer to play as often as possible.
I am almost 100% sure that this is the case and where many of our problems come from.
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xXKonan
Senior Member
While Lucho wasn't perfect by all means he didn't have like you said that personality and authority that Valverde lacks.
One of the things I noticed in his final season is that he started to have some doubts about Rakitic and decided to give Gomes a run of games instead. Lucho even commented during a press conference after an interview Rakitic had made before he lost some promience saying "He doubts Rakitic will jump off a cliff for him anymore" Rakitic made a comment saying "I will jump off a cliff for Lucho" to add context.
It was only after Iniesta's long term knee injury and Gomes not exactly being that great Rakitic got his spot back. I remember the rumors during January, that City were heavily interested in him and I still think it was Rakitic and his agents leaking info to MD/Sport to try and pressure Lucho to play him as a starter again.
And add insult to injury that season, Alba was throwing a fit after we switched to a 3-4-3 for a short time and he got benched due to it. Alba was praising Lucho before, but after we switched to a back three, he suddenly thought Lucho was commiting murder after he left him on the bench. I mean what can Lucho do? Alba was way to small to play as a CB in a back three.
I can't imagine the shithousery that would happen of Koeman was our manager. He's another one that has that "I don't take shit from no one menality"
Leo_Messi
New member
While Lucho wasn't perfect by all means he didn't have like you said that personality and authority that Valverde lacks.
One of the things I noticed in his final season is that he started to have some doubts about Rakitic and decided to give Gomes a run of games instead. Lucho even commented during a press conference after an interview Rakitic had made before he lost some promience saying "He doubts Rakitic will jump off a cliff for him anymore" Rakitic made a comment saying "I will jump off a cliff for Lucho" to add context.
It was only after Iniesta's long term knee injury and Gomes not exactly being that great Rakitic got his spot back. I remember the rumors during January, that City were heavily interested in him and I still think it was Rakitic and his agents leaking info to MD/Sport to try and pressure Lucho to play him as a starter again.
And add insult to injury that season, Alba was throwing a fit after we switched to a 3-4-3 for a short time and he got benched due to it. Alba was praising Lucho before, but after we switched to a back three, he suddenly thought Lucho was commiting murder after he left him on the bench. I mean what can Lucho do? Alba was way to small to play as a CB in a back three.
I can't imagine the shithousery that would happen of Koeman was our manager. He's another one that has that "I don't take shit from no one menality"
Those are exactly examples of situations where many problems, in particular in a successful team with very accomplished players, emerge.
When the manager clashes with the team (not talking about single isolated incidents which occur on a weekly basis) it is usually with the senior players or the core of the team. The ones that have the biggest say in the dressing room, the most accomplished guys and those that in theory can contribute greatly to a possible dismissal of a manager or him turning into a success story.
My theory is that Lucho, much like Pep before him, wanted to replace some of the seniors to create renewed hunger, more dynamism and prevent complacency. However the board was probably not on the same page (in particular not given the spending back in 2014) and because it is always easier for the board to replace the manager than a core of the team or many individual players.
I am not sure if you remember but there were very strong rumors about Pep wanting to sell numerous profiles back in 2011 (Piqué being one of them) for those same very reasons and probably others as well.
As for the Alba example, it's just a perfect example. He has played his best football ever since his fallout with Lucho. Arguably. Prior to not being called up by Lucho for the national team, he played maybe his best ever football. Because there was something on the line. Someone (Lucho) had bothered him so he wanted to prove Lucho wrong. That kick in the ass in other words that players and most of us need in our daily life in certain areas. To spark that inner fire that can make us do the extra push etc.
If the club decides to appoint a manager for a long-term project (or at long as they usually last which is some 3 years) I would prefer a change of SOME of the seniors. More fresh blood is needed. I would certainly part ways with the likes of Rakitic, possibly Pique and Suárez. Of course provided that the club is able to buy sufficient replacements which is easier said than done. But in theory, if I could replace all 3 with say de Light, de Jong and Mbappe (just examples) I would do it in a heartbeat like most others. Less can do as well.
Honestly, if not for Pochettino's perico past, I would take him in a hardbeat as I believe that he ticks a lot of boxes. That or someone obsessed with football like Henry. I really believe that the latter could do a brilliant job honestly. It would be a gamble but he was/is one of the better students of Pep, knows the club very well, knows Pep very well, the Cruyff school, is pragmatic (due to his time in Italy and England), is obsessed with football, would be a very respected figure and personality, he has that aura of respect about him similar to Zidane etc. The only problem is his lack of experience at the highest level (his hard time at Monaco might help him grow a thick skin as a manager) and him having played with some of our remaining seniors (Messi, Piqué and Busquets).
Actually a bit shocked that only 3 guys are left from the 2009-10 squad.
How fast time flies by. The usual cliché but damn, it's true.BTW much of what I have talked about also applies to business.
Lastly, this is also what I eluded to initially after my return here when I wrote in the Valverde thread that the problems and challenges are not all on Valverde himself but that they go deeper than that. It was more to put a slightly different perspective on what people wrote in this thread rather than a "defense" of Valverde as a manager or me somehow being in love with him.
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