Ernesto Valverde - V1

[Joan]

But none from you.

Now see how you usually feel I kid, I kid..

I mostly agree with Origami and Ursegor. No need to repeat the same point times and times again.

 

[Havesaks]

Neymar was and is the second best player in the world. Our whole squad planning was depending and has been influenced by having him in the team. If we hadnt Neymar, we would have focused on a stronger midfield. Its all connected with Neymar. From a tactical point of view i would even say he was just a big a loss as messi would have been. While Messi is the better player, Neymar doesnt depend on other players to compensate for lack of running with and without ball because of his age (edit: which is a big problem in an aging and old starting line up. I dont agree with Neymar choosing PSG, but it is true, that Messi in the end limitied his development. Anyway, you mentioned Dembele as a replacement, but his 150m doesnt make him a 150/220 = 0,7/1 or 110/220 = 1/2 (half) the player Neymar would have been that season. Because he maybe was 2/4 or even 3/4 the player in dortmund as neymar would have been, but he wouldnt be that in Barca. Dortmund plays completely different where his lack of deffensive awareness and skills didnt matter. And his running was way more vital than it would be in a possession-played tactic valverde/barca intended to play. To make full use of Dembele and get the most out of him we would need to play like Dortmund - but with an aging core, a a god damn slow midfield and even slower offence, that would never happen. So what we really got in Dembele was 1/5 of the player Neymar would have been. But it doesnt end there... Dembele got injuried (because he was immature, like our medics have told us afterwards) and was out for 4 months. So our attack was basically Messi, Suarez, Munir and Malcom. That is as bad as it gets, not because Messi and Suarez are anything less than amazing, but because a team depends on harmony. How stupid was Perez to sell makelele all though his replacement was the "better" player. Or Sergio was favored despite Toure being the all-around better player. So we were really fucked. You do get that right?
Lastly Valverde caculated with Neymar, his tactics depended on him, club ensured him, neymar would stay back then and Neymar was part of our pre-season.

So Valverde did something amazing and we plated 4-4-2, where Paulionho helped carry the ball to our slow forwards and our midfield was stacked so our slow midfield wouldnt be overrun. It was pure genius and brave decision, but also the only way around it. It made us leading la liga with a margin, and gave the our team some leeway. Barca management then decided to buy coutinho. Also Dembele more or less came back from injury. So two totally new players, our fans demanded to get a place in our starting line-up immidately. The amazing work in the first half gave us amazingly enough some leeway to integrate those two, but to switch a succesfull formation / set-up during the season, isnt really logical. But there is only so much you can do. People wanted Coutinho in midfield, and dembele in attack. But guess what¸ its not possible, because neither of them are good enough defensive enough especially with our aging core. People would say "but but we played with xavi-iniesta", yes thats true, but both of them were masters at keeping balll possession, coutinho and dembele play both with great risk in their game. Also we had wingers/attackers who could actual run and pressure.

So thats why only one of them could play in the team.

Also, like another user says, the media was going crazy after neymar, our team was uneasy because they also depended on Neymars quality. Valverde got a lot of praise from players and the club how he handled the situation; and everyone did calm down (players).

I already told you the creteria depends on the situation. After neymar gate and dembele injury, i would have been fine winning the copa without playing 4-3-3 total football. But we won the double. Also some hear say that it was an easy win. Yes we won with a lot of points, but also here i want to give ev credits, besides the total of 93p what is impressive, the first half year, we took so many points and didnt waver, that real never reallly stood a chance = less motivation = less points.

Im fine with your ideal-barca-way, and i do agree thats the way we should play, but player-mix (type, age etc) and cirumstances considered that was never an option, unless we would be fine being number 3 or 4 in la liga winning no titles what soever and winning no titles this season as well. Maybe a copa or something. EV has been nothing less than exceptional and for that i also want him to get the chance to develop a more beautiful concept, but he hasnt had the chance yet. Next season with our new signings, he will have a chance. And Im sure he will improve, but im also sure he still wont go all pep on us, and thats also a fine approach - because a generational change is a proces, and if you can keep winning while keep adding younger player and also keep playing more beautiful you have done a perfect job.

For me Valverde has had two 10/10 performances so far (both seaons).

Just re-read my post, well there are some passages with bad english and bad formulations, but i wrote it rather quickly. if something is unclear, you are welcome to ask! And i will elaborate it. 4chan-guy

 

[henias]

Now see how you usually feel I kid, I kid..

I mostly agree with Origami and Ursegor. No need to repeat the same point times and times again.

True. I'll just let time tell. But I just don't see the point in raving after a Betis win, inciting any sort of debate and I honestly don't see this magnitude of a squad with Messi is gonna struggle in La Liga anytime soon.

Come March-April would be a crucial period, especially the CL.

But again, the whole point about EV isn't about results, which people don't seem to grasp on, so this will just keep going in circles: apologists will brush off problems and just look at current results while critics believe these issues will cause future desvatation when the need to play and develop as a complete team, (not depending on Messi etc), more rests if competitions were to get tougher next seasons.

 

[Horatio]

Nietzsche would be proud.

Also you are supposed to go all out on Joan right now with the occasional misconstruing and mislabeling while coming off as a very frustrated individual since he doesnt share your opinion.

 

[xXKonan]

He somehow got it right vs Betis.

But he still has a long way in trying to get rid of his Retard nickname on here. He nearly lived up to it vs Lyon at home.

 

[Havesaks]

True. I'll just let time tell. But I just don't see the point in raving after a Betis win, inciting any sort of debate and I honestly don't see this magnitude of a squad with Messi is gonna struggle in La Liga anytime soon.

Come March-April would be a crucial period, especially the CL.

But again, the whole point about EV isn't about results, which people don't seem to grasp on, so this will just keep going in circles: apologists will brush off problems and just look at current results while critics believe these issues will cause future desvatation when the need to play and develop as a complete team, (not depending on Messi etc), more rests if competitions were to get tougher next seasons.

hepatitis, we get it. You hate Valverde

Deutsche sind doch normalerweise vernünftiger.

 

[henias]

Nietzsche would be proud.

Also you are supposed to go all out on Joan right now with the occasional misconstruing and mislabeling while coming off as a very frustrated individual since he doesnt share your opinion.

Such in-depth profiling, I'm impressed. I'm sorry you got offended, so much so I'd be seen as a frustrated person.

Miscontruing coming from someone who makes lame posts calling on haters aka "arm-chair coaches", throwing all kinds of shades, while trying to make a serious post lamenting about himself being victimised and called an apologist, is somehow expected to be taken seriously

You are doing the exact same to people who don't share your opinion.

Also, the only time you respond to opposition view is when they start exposing you and you think your ad hominem can win you arguments. Other than that, you'll just ignore serious posts and start your gibberish when a good result comes by.

 

[DonAK]

If it leads to trophies then good enough. Eventually down the line we'll need a manager that will set a system for us to use post-Messi though and develop our younger players into WC ones.

Valverde is simply not that. He is in fact as far away from someone like that as you can be.

 

[serghei]

If he wins the CL or brings us close while playing his style, fair enough. I'll support him. At the end of the day we're still more entertaining than most big teams out there because of the players we have.

At Barca it is hard to build a new team, because you have to do it while winning in the present, on the fly so to speak. Not like most teams where you can afford to win nothing for several seasons in a row and slowly build a new side. At Barca/Madrid the building of a new team is done little by little. You just have to make sure the team is not in such a bad state at any point as to need a massive signing sprees or a massive influx of fresh blood. Neither Barcelona or Madrid aren't in such a state.

You guys will see with Zidane. Who expects Madrid to replace 7 starters next summer will have a surprise. They will make maybe 2 changes in the first 11. Benzema, Marcelo, Kroos, Carvajal, Ramos etc. will still be there.

 

[Havesaks]

If he wins the CL or brings us close while playing his style, fair enough. I'll support him. At the end of the day we're still more entertaining than most big teams out there because of the players we have.

At Barca it is hard to build a new team, because you have to do it while winning in the present, on the fly so to speak. Not like most teams where you can afford to win nothing for several seasons in a row and slowly build a new side. At Barca/Madrid the building of a new team is done little by little. You just have to make sure the team is not in such a bad state at any point as to need a massive signing sprees or a massive influx of fresh blood. Neither Barcelona or Madrid aren't in such a state.

You guys will see with Zidane. Who expects Madrid to replace 7 starters next summer will have a surprise. They will make maybe 2 changes in the first 11. Benzema, Marcelo, Kroos, Carvajal, Ramos etc. will still be there.

In Pl it is harder to build or rebuild temas. One off-season and you wont play chl, because of the great competition. With new tv deal it has become easier, but still harder than for barca and real.

Juve, Bayern and PSG tho...

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

If it leads to trophies then good enough. Eventually down the line we'll need a manager that will set a system for us to use post-Messi though and develop our younger players into WC ones.

Valverde is simply not that. He is in fact as far away from someone like that as you can be.

True. He doesn't seem the person i would trust the world best young talent. He kills every young prospects confidence.

 

[clemente]

We will have FDJ, and Rakitic or Busquets will be taking all his minutes, imagine if he Malcom's FDJ next season, wanna throw up.

 

[Joan]

True. I'll just let time tell. But I just don't see the point in raving after a Betis win, inciting any sort of debate and I honestly don't see this magnitude of a squad with Messi is gonna struggle in La Liga anytime soon.

Come March-April would be a crucial period, especially the CL.

Wouldn't call it raving. Has more to do with Newton's third law, really. For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. This thread has been a mess for a while, lots of instances of vulgar insults, to some unnecessary whining.. note that I don't say there's no valid criticism. Many enjoyed Betis match, there's that.

 

[henias]

Wouldn't call it raving. Has more to do with Newton's third law, really. For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. This thread has been a mess for a while, lots of instances of vulgar insults, to some unnecessary whining.. note that I don't say there's no valid criticism. Many enjoyed Betis match, there's that.

If it's just the Betis match, think many have heaped their praises. But some of the posts, especially by yatch boy, is a full on acclaim, just like how the same people did before the Roma debacle. Well, for EV no one ever knows what surprises he might pull, so naturally people are in jitters. It's not like I haven't praised EV after the Madrid match, but he almost immediately reverted to his old ways the match after, which made me certain he still haven't really learnt his lessons. The lack of rotations and treatment of some players is still honestly mind boggling, so still couldn't trust him with world class talents coming our way.

Certain apologists still try to compare this team with the one in 2010, which is totally out of context, as this squad beats most teams hands down especially in 2019, with Madrid's downfall. Just like how they tried to write Dembele and Semedo off, saying Messi, Suarez and Busi too old, but even Lucho knew how to balance between the seniors and the newcomers effectively. I remember you said this year Ernie should have no excuses regarding the squad, I'll hold you to that. Give credit where credit is due, but the same excuses shouldn't be constantly used to rationalise EV's wrongdoing.

You might think criticism is unfair, calling it a mess and unwarranted, but at the same time, I think some of you are nonchalant and too result oriented, oblivious to the potential repercussions his stubbornness might cause. Besides that, the ongoing excuses makes yall even more hypocritical. At the end of the day, it goes both ways.

As for the thread name, it's up to EV to redeem himself, but honestly he is a guy who doesnt read games or understand tactics, all he knows is defending with a medium/low block and let players do their thing. But another of his biggest flaw is too closely guarded to senior players, and subs are honestly, extremly delayed, erratic and atrocious. He does trust Dembele right now, which is good, but still using Lucho's tactics which might render it ineffective.

Might not seem like a concern right now, but if players cant pull it on their own then it's going to be disastrous. I'll probably wait till April for a proper verdict.

 

[Joan]

I'll reply later.