Andrew M
New member
That's not true. Benitez, Lopetegui, Solari? Even Zidane was in reality a mid season punt, albeit a very successful one
That's not true. Benitez, Lopetegui, Solari? Even Zidane was in reality a mid season punt, albeit a very successful one
BBZ8800
Senior Member
I have checked some stats now, Barca has never sacked a coach who has won La liga in that season.
I have checked back to 80s.
Ev x2, Lucho x2, Tito, Pep x3, Rijkaard x2, Van Gaal x2.
Lucho left after not winning La Liga.
Tata was fired after not winning.
Pep left after not winning.
Rijkaard didn't win in his last 2 seasons.
Van Gaal didn't win in his last season.
Rexach, Ferrer, Antic didn't win it.
Robson didn't win it.
Cruijff didn't win it in his last season.
The same is with Real:
Zidane won and stayed in 2017.
Mou won in 2012, left in 2013.
Schuster won in 2008, sacked during the next season.
So, regarding Barca and Real, the only two coaches who won La liga and were sacked were Capello in 2007 and Del Bosque in 2003.
From 2007-2019, ALL coaches who won La liga, remained in their teams in the next season.
I have checked back to 80s.
Ev x2, Lucho x2, Tito, Pep x3, Rijkaard x2, Van Gaal x2.
Lucho left after not winning La Liga.
Tata was fired after not winning.
Pep left after not winning.
Rijkaard didn't win in his last 2 seasons.
Van Gaal didn't win in his last season.
Rexach, Ferrer, Antic didn't win it.
Robson didn't win it.
Cruijff didn't win it in his last season.
The same is with Real:
Zidane won and stayed in 2017.
Mou won in 2012, left in 2013.
Schuster won in 2008, sacked during the next season.
So, regarding Barca and Real, the only two coaches who won La liga and were sacked were Capello in 2007 and Del Bosque in 2003.
From 2007-2019, ALL coaches who won La liga, remained in their teams in the next season.
Messigician
Senior Member
Pep Guardiola on Sterling talk: “Raheem is one of the reasons we have done what we have done, but in the first half he did not play well. When I talk about how we can improve it’s that. He lost easy balls. Everybody can improve, I’m the first one who can, I ask my staff to push me.”
Vs
" it is what it is"
Valverde
Vs
" it is what it is"
Valverde
FCB1987
Banned
He's wasting himself if he's still sticking up for Ernie, Luis, and Busi.
MTL_Barca
Well-known member
Now check again how many of them had Messi but still played boring shit football and got humiliated in CL like Valverde.
FCB1987
Banned
And check how many of them had actual competition in the league. In Retardo's two seasons, no other club has even got 80 points ffs.
Pep left after Madrid got 100
Tata left after Atletico got 90, Real 87
Enrique left after Madrid got 93
If we don't beat Eibar, this will be our lowest points totak since 2008
BBZ8800
Senior Member
You are overrating rebuilding.
It sounds as if rebuilding is always a way to go.
Btw, I am not against rebuilding, since we will need a rebuilding, but I am against rebuilding for a sake of rebuilding.
I mean, if Real's rebuilding and their future are Asensio and Vinicius Jr, then we are fine even without rebuilding, lol.
Rebuilding is good if you actually have players who will be able to do it.
In early 2000s, we sold Rivaldo, Figo, Pep and tried to rebuild with crappy, expensive youth players like Gerard Lopez, Saviola, Fabio Rochemback, Christanval, Geovanni Deiberson etc.
How did that rebuilding process ended?
= it ended that we didn't win La Liga for 5 years in a row.
And then, we had to sell ALL OF THOSE CRAPPY young players and started with a new rebuilding with Rijkaard, who had actually rebuild with a players in their prime aged 23-28.
And all of his players were captains and best players in their former teams (Rijkaard explicitely said that: we wanted to buy a team of winners and leaders).
Those leaders and captains from former clubs were Ronnie from world cup champion Brasil and Psg, Etoo from Mallorca, Deco from a CL winner Porto, Guily from a CL finalist Monaco, Edmilson a captain of Lyon, Marquez a captain of Mexico.
Those leaders, captains and world class players were paired with the best midfielder ever Xavi, young Iniesta and young Messi.
So, you see, Rijkaard didn't actually rebuild a team with Denis, Gomes, Paco, Malcom and Dumbele.
Pep gave chances to Busi, Pique and Pedro who were kids.
But don't be blinded by that and think that it will happen again just because we are giving chances to kids.
Anyway, I have a feeling that a lot of posters here think that we will be way better with a new coach and with current kids.
Regarding current kids, I personally still think that Malcom is a level of Uefa cup teams in big leagues, or even worse than that.
Dumbele is just dumb.
Arthur, well, we'll see how will he develop his forward passes in the future.
Who is left? Alena who is miles behind some former La Masia midfielders.
Puig, we'll see whether he can play some serious senior football at all.
So, playing with drained Raki, Busi, Suarez is NOT a solution.
But believing that anything good will happen with Dumbele, Malcom and similar guys as a future core players is imo beyond crazy.
So, yeah, we could rebuild a team.
But we will need a few more Frenkies and De Ligts for that. Not Malcoms.
I see that revisionism is strong lately.
The idea how La liga was crap for 2 years is the only reason why EV has won a title is mentioned more and more.
A few random questions:
1. players who jerk off on TikiTaka and short midfielders (Don Andres and similar guys) were writing poems how Real won CLs due to mighty Modric, Isco, Kross in midfield.
Now, a question: if those midfielders are so good, how come that a stupid EV managed to win La Liga against that magical midfield trio?
= I know, I know, you will reply: we won because of Messi.
Cool.
2. but another question then: how come that Messi (paired with Neymar and Suarez) managed to lose a title in 2017 and we were 10 points behind Real in the 2nd half of 2015/16 when we almost lost a title?
So, basically, THE SAME MESSI, with even stronger team under Lucho, managed to lose La Liga in the 2nd half of 2016 and in 2016/17 to Real Madrid.
And then, we lost Neymar, bought 2 clowns in Dumbele and Coutinho. Dembele was injured or lost on a parking lot looking for a training grounds in the majority of last season and Coutinho played in the 2nd half of a season.
Now, how come, that a crappy EV managed to win 2 titles suddenly against that Real Madrid who was better than us with (for 10-15 points) in the last 18 Months?
Also, did Real magically decide: oh, let's play crap now.
Let's allow EV to win a few La Ligas.
So, yes, some things don't make sense in this newly created theory.
Also, since a revisionism is kicking again lately.
A few random questions again.
When a mighty Pep was here, people say that La Liga was insanely strong.
Let's check some results from Pep's opponents back then:
2009:
Real KO'd in 1/8 of a Liverpool 0:1 and 0:4, in total 0:5.
Atletico KO'd by Porto in 1/8 with 2:2 and 0:0.
Just a question. So, THESE are those awesome opponents against whom mighty Pep had to fight? In the days when La Liga was 100 times stronger than today?
2008:
Real KO'd in 1/8 by Roma, 1:2 and 1:2
Atletico didn't play in a CL.
2007:
Real KO'd in 1/8 of a CL by Bayern 4:4 on aggregate.
Atletico. Who is Atletico?
2006:
Real KO'd in 1/8 of a CL by Arsenal, 0:1 in total.
Atletico who?
2005:
Real KO'd in 1/8 by Juve 1:2.
Atletico who?
So, let me ask something now.
I will need some assistance since a lot of things don't make sense.
Sooo:
Before Pep: Real was KO'd 5 TIMES IN A ROW in 1/8 of a CL.
Yet, Pep's Real was the strongest opponent in a history of universe.
Real before EV won 3 CLs in 4 seasons and AGAIN they won a CL in EV's 1st season here.
Barcaforum verdict: this is the worst Real Madrid in a history.
Do I even need to mention Simeone's Atletico vs Atletico from Pep's era?
In the first EV's season, his two main rivals:
Real won a CL in 2018.
Atletico won Europa league in 2018.
Barcaforum verdict: we shouldn't even count EV's title. His opponents were on a Mickey Mouse level.
RM had voodoo magic Zidane, CR7, Modric, Kroos, Isco, Benzema.
Ev had Paulinho-Gomes-Rakitic midfield trio. And forever injured Dumbele, miss Denis and Deulofeu as wingers.
Barcaforum verdict: the worst coach in football since 1692'
Again, I am not saying that EV is good or that he should stay, but some posts here lately are a pure gold.
I mean, Pep can't do shit in Europe without Messi.
Yet, EV is all about Messi.
The thing is: every coach with Messi in his team is all about Messi.
Also, someone asked why can't we play nice and yet we have Messi?
Well, maybe having Messi is one of problems.
Remember all matches lately (under Lucho with Neymar being a key man) or under EV in preseason matches of when Messi didn't play: our guys looked way more like a team, they looked way more mobile, our combinations were way better.
Why?
Well, when you have Messi, why even bother to move or do off the ball runs when every single ball will be passed to Messi.
When Messi is not on a field, all players have 10 different passing options.
When Messi is on a field, all players have only 1 passing option: Messi.
I am not saying that we should get rid of Messi, but a legit question is: can this team even play faster, more mobile and more beautiful when all players need to pass the ball to Messi all the time.
In the last 5-6 years:
Tata's team with Messi played like a crap.
Lucho's team with Messi had 12 good Months and poor 24 Months.
Ev's team with Messi plays ugly for 24 Months.
All Argentina NT teams play horrible and ugly with Messi lately.
People will again reply: Argentina is a crap, Tata was a crap, EV is a crap, Lucho is so-so.
I mean, imagine Ajax who played a nice free flowing football this season with all players moving like crazy and playing nice passes.
Do you think that Ajax would have played that beautiful with 32 years old Messi, when every ball needs to be passed to him? Where Messi is "ruining" a formation, where he is dropping deep into a midfield (ruining a midfield setup of Ajax's team) and basically doing whatever he wants in tactical sense during a match.
That means that off the ball movement from other players become useless, team's actions become more predictable also.
So, basically, in the last 5-6 years (that is 10-12 years combined 6+6), teams with Messi played a nice free flowing football only for 12 Months under Lucho.
Other 11 years in both Argentina and Tata's, Lucho's and EV's Barca were more or less the same: static, slow possession based football.
With ball passed around the box all the time, and all players looking for Messi at the edge of a box, who will try to do some magic.
So:
1. EV is bad, but not as bad as people are making him to be
2. our team is old, mentally drained and we need rebuilding, but not with Dumbele and Malcom. If they are our future, we don't need rebuilding at all.
3. can we even play a free flowing attacking football with 32 years old Messi and Messipendencia in a team (before Cule4Life replies: but EV should tell players not to pass to Messi, lol. None coach in the world was able to change Messipendencia and passing to him all the time)
4. Real and Atletico are nowhere near as bad as people are making the to be
Last edited:
Messigician
Senior Member
You are overrating rebuilding.
It sounds as if rebuilding is always a way to go.
Btw, I am not against rebuilding, since we will need a rebuilding, but I am against rebuilding for a sake of rebuilding.
I mean, if Real's rebuilding and their future are Asensio and Vinicius Jr, then we are fine even without rebuilding, lol.
Rebuilding is good if you actually have players who will be able to do it.
In early 2000s, we sold Rivaldo, Figo, Pep and tried to rebuild with crappy, expensive youth players like Gerard Lopez, Saviola, Fabio Rochemback, Christanval, Geovanni Deiberson etc.
How did that rebuilding process ended?
= it ended that we didn't win La Liga for 5 years in a row.
And then, we had to sell ALL OF THOSE CRAPPY young players and started with a new rebuilding with Rijkaard, who had actually rebuild with a players in their prime aged 23-28.
And all of his players were captains and best players in their former teams (Rijkaard explicitely said that: we wanted to buy a team of winners and leaders).
Those leaders and captains from former clubs were Ronnie from world cup champion Brasil and Psg, Etoo from Mallorca, Deco from a CL winner Porto, Guily from a CL finalist Monaco, Edmilson a captain of Lyon, Marquez a captain of Mexico.
Those leaders, captains and world class players were paired with the best midfielder ever Xavi, young Iniesta and young Messi.
So, you see, Rijkaard didn't actually rebuild a team with Denis, Gomes, Paco, Malcom and Dumbele.
Pep gave chances to Busi, Pique and Pedro who were kids.
But don't be blinded by that and think that it will happen again just because we are giving chances to kids.
Anyway, I have a feeling that a lot of posters here think that we will be way better with a new coach and with current kids.
Regarding current kids, I personally still think that Malcom is a level of Uefa cup teams in big leagues, or even worse than that.
Dumbele is just dumb.
Arthur, well, we'll see how will he develop his forward passes in the future.
Who is left? Alena who is miles behind some former La Masia midfielders.
Puig, we'll see whether he can play some serious senior football at all.
So, playing with drained Raki, Busi, Suarez is NOT a solution.
But believing that anything good will happen with Dumbele, Malcom and similar guys as a future core players is imo beyond crazy.
So, yeah, we could rebuild a team.
But we will need a few more Frenkies and De Ligts for that. Not Malcoms.
I see that revisionism is strong lately.
The idea how La liga was crap for 2 years is the only reason why EV has won a title is mentioned more and more.
A few random questions:
1. players who jerk off on TikiTaka and short midfielders (Don Andres and similar guys) were writing poems how Real won CLs due to mighty Modric, Isco, Kross in midfield.
Now, a question: if those midfielders are so good, how come that a stupid EV managed to win La Liga against that magical midfield trio?
= I know, I know, you will reply: we won because of Messi.
Cool.
2. but another question then: how come that Messi (paired with Neymar and Suarez) managed to lose a title in 2017 and we were 10 points behind Real in the 2nd half of 2015/16 when we almost lost a title?
So, basically, THE SAME MESSI, with even stronger team under Lucho, managed to lose La Liga in the 2nd half of 2016 and in 2016/17 to Real Madrid.
And then, we lost Neymar, bought 2 clowns in Dumbele and Coutinho. Dembele was injured or lost on a parking lot looking for a training grounds in the majority of last season and Coutinho played in the 2nd half of a season.
Now, how come, that a crappy EV managed to win 2 titles suddenly against that Real Madrid who was better than us with (for 10-15 points) in the last 18 Months?
Also, did Real magically decide: oh, let's play crap now.
Let's allow EV to win a few La Ligas.
So, yes, some things don't make sense in this newly created theory.
Also, since a revisionism is kicking again lately.
A few random questions again.
When a mighty Pep was here, people say that La Liga was insanely strong.
Let's check some results from Pep's opponents back then:
2009:
Real KO'd in 1/8 of a Liverpool 0:1 and 0:4, in total 0:5.
Atletico KO'd by Porto in 1/8 with 2:2 and 0:0.
Just a question. So, THESE are those awesome opponents against whom mighty Pep had to fight? In the days when La Liga was 100 times stronger than today?
2008:
Real KO'd in 1/8 by Roma, 1:2 and 1:2
Atletico didn't play in a CL.
2007:
Real KO'd in 1/8 of a CL by Bayern 4:4 on aggregate.
Atletico. Who is Atletico?
2006:
Real KO'd in 1/8 of a CL by Arsenal, 0:1 in total.
Atletico who?
2005:
Real KO'd in 1/8 by Juve 1:2.
Atletico who?
So, let me ask something now.
I will need some assistance since a lot of things don't make sense.
Sooo:
Before Pep: Real was KO'd 5 TIMES IN A ROW in 1/8 of a CL.
Yet, Pep's Real was the strongest opponent in a history of universe.
Real before EV won 3 CLs in 4 seasons and AGAIN they won a CL in EV's 1st season here.
Barcaforum verdict: this is the worst Real Madrid in a history.
Do I even need to mention Simeone's Atletico vs Atletico from Pep's era?
In the first EV's season, his two main rivals:
Real won a CL in 2018.
Atletico won Europa league in 2018.
Barcaforum verdict: we shouldn't even count EV's title. His opponents were on a Mickey Mouse level.
RM had voodoo magic Zidane, CR7, Modric, Kroos, Isco, Benzema.
Ev had Paulinho-Gomes-Rakitic midfield trio. And forever injured Dumbele, miss Denis and Deulofeu as wingers.
Barcaforum verdict: the worst coach in football since 1692'
Again, I am not saying that EV is good or that he should stay, but some posts here lately are a pure gold.
I mean, Pep can't do shit in Europe without Messi.
Yet, EV is all about Messi.
The thing is: every coach with Messi in his team is all about Messi.
Also, someone asked why can't we play nice and yet we have Messi?
Well, maybe having Messi is one of problems.
Remember all matches lately (under Lucho with Neymar being a key man) or under EV in preseason matches of when Messi didn't play: our guys looked way more like a team, they looked way more mobile, our combinations were way better.
Why?
Well, when you have Messi, why even bother to move or do off the ball runs when every single ball will be passed to Messi.
When Messi is not on a field, all players have 10 different passing options.
When Messi is on a field, all players have only 1 passing option: Messi.
I am not saying that we should get rid of Messi, but a legit question is: can this team even play faster, more mobile and more beautiful when all players need to pass the ball to Messi all the time.
In the last 5-6 years:
Tata's team with Messi played like a crap.
Lucho's team with Messi had 12 good Months and poor 24 Months.
Ev's team with Messi plays ugly for 24 Months.
All Argentina NT teams play horrible and ugly with Messi lately.
People will again reply: Argentina is a crap, Tata was a crap, EV is a crap, Lucho is so-so.
I mean, imagine Ajax who played a nice free flowing football this season with all players moving like crazy and playing nice passes.
Do you think that Ajax would have played that beautiful with 32 years old Messi, when every ball needs to be passed to him? Where Messi is "ruining" a formation, where he is dropping deep into a midfield (ruining a midfield setup of Ajax's team) and basically doing whatever he wants in tactical sense during a match.
That means that off the ball movement from other players become useless, team's actions become more predictable also.
So, basically, in the last 5-6 years (that is 10-12 years combined 6+6), teams with Messi played a nice free flowing football only for 12 Months under Lucho.
Other 11 years in both Argentina and Tata's, Lucho's and EV's Barca were more or less the same: static, slow possession based football.
With ball passed around the box all the time, and all players looking for Messi at the edge of a box, who will try to do some magic.
So:
1. EV is bad, but not as bad as people are making him to be
2. our team is old, mentally drained and we need rebuilding, but not with Dumbele and Malcom. If they are our future, we don't need rebuilding at all.
3. can we even play a free flowing attacking football with 32 years old Messi and Messipendencia in a team (before Cule4Life replies: but EV should tell players not to pass to Messi, lol. None coach in the world was able to change Messipendencia and passing to him all the time)
4. Real and Atletico are nowhere near as bad as people are making the to be
Jesus Christ that was a long read but I do agree with the post actually. We shouldn't play kids for the sake of it youth needs to prove itself first like Iniesta did and so on
MTL_Barca
Well-known member
You are overrating rebuilding.
It sounds as if rebuilding is always a way to go.
Btw, I am not against rebuilding, since we will need a rebuilding, but I am against rebuilding for a sake of rebuilding.
I mean, if Real's rebuilding and their future are Asensio and Vinicius Jr, then we are fine even without rebuilding, lol.
Rebuilding is good if you actually have players who will be able to do it.
In early 2000s, we sold Rivaldo, Figo, Pep and tried to rebuild with crappy, expensive youth players like Gerard Lopez, Saviola, Fabio Rochemback, Christanval, Geovanni Deiberson etc.
How did that rebuilding process ended?
= it ended that we didn't win La Liga for 5 years in a row.
And then, we had to sell ALL OF THOSE CRAPPY young players and started with a new rebuilding with Rijkaard, who had actually rebuild with a players in their prime aged 23-28.
And all of his players were captains and best players in their former teams (Rijkaard explicitely said that: we wanted to buy a team of winners and leaders).
Those leaders and captains from former clubs were Ronnie from world cup champion Brasil and Psg, Etoo from Mallorca, Deco from a CL winner Porto, Guily from a CL finalist Monaco, Edmilson a captain of Lyon, Marquez a captain of Mexico.
Those leaders, captains and world class players were paired with the best midfielder ever Xavi, young Iniesta and young Messi.
So, you see, Rijkaard didn't actually rebuild a team with Denis, Gomes, Paco, Malcom and Dumbele.
Pep gave chances to Busi, Pique and Pedro who were kids.
But don't be blinded by that and think that it will happen again just because we are giving chances to kids.
Anyway, I have a feeling that a lot of posters here think that we will be way better with a new coach and with current kids.
Regarding current kids, I personally still think that Malcom is a level of Uefa cup teams in big leagues, or even worse than that.
Dumbele is just dumb.
Arthur, well, we'll see how will he develop his forward passes in the future.
Who is left? Alena who is miles behind some former La Masia midfielders.
Puig, we'll see whether he can play some serious senior football at all.
So, playing with drained Raki, Busi, Suarez is NOT a solution.
But believing that anything good will happen with Dumbele, Malcom and similar guys as a future core players is imo beyond crazy.
So, yeah, we could rebuild a team.
But we will need a few more Frenkies and De Ligts for that. Not Malcoms.
I see that revisionism is strong lately.
The idea how La liga was crap for 2 years is the only reason why EV has won a title is mentioned more and more.
A few random questions:
1. players who jerk off on TikiTaka and short midfielders (Don Andres and similar guys) were writing poems how Real won CLs due to mighty Modric, Isco, Kross in midfield.
Now, a question: if those midfielders are so good, how come that a stupid EV managed to win La Liga against that magical midfield trio?
= I know, I know, you will reply: we won because of Messi.
Cool.
2. but another question then: how come that Messi (paired with Neymar and Suarez) managed to lose a title in 2017 and we were 10 points behind Real in the 2nd half of 2015/16 when we almost lost a title?
So, basically, THE SAME MESSI, with even stronger team under Lucho, managed to lose La Liga in the 2nd half of 2016 and in 2016/17 to Real Madrid.
And then, we lost Neymar, bought 2 clowns in Dumbele and Coutinho. Dembele was injured or lost on a parking lot looking for a training grounds in the majority of last season and Coutinho played in the 2nd half of a season.
Now, how come, that a crappy EV managed to win 2 titles suddenly against that Real Madrid who was better than us with (for 10-15 points) in the last 18 Months?
Also, did Real magically decide: oh, let's play crap now.
Let's allow EV to win a few La Ligas.
So, yes, some things don't make sense in this newly created theory.
Also, since a revisionism is kicking again lately.
A few random questions again.
When a mighty Pep was here, people say that La Liga was insanely strong.
Let's check some results from Pep's opponents back then:
2009:
Real KO'd in 1/8 of a Liverpool 0:1 and 0:4, in total 0:5.
Atletico KO'd by Porto in 1/8 with 2:2 and 0:0.
Just a question. So, THESE are those awesome opponents against whom mighty Pep had to fight? In the days when La Liga was 100 times stronger than today?
2008:
Real KO'd in 1/8 by Roma, 1:2 and 1:2
Atletico didn't play in a CL.
2007:
Real KO'd in 1/8 of a CL by Bayern 4:4 on aggregate.
Atletico. Who is Atletico?
2006:
Real KO'd in 1/8 of a CL by Arsenal, 0:1 in total.
Atletico who?
2005:
Real KO'd in 1/8 by Juve 1:2.
Atletico who?
So, let me ask something now.
I will need some assistance since a lot of things don't make sense.
Sooo:
Before Pep: Real was KO'd 5 TIMES IN A ROW in 1/8 of a CL.
Yet, Pep's Real was the strongest opponent in a history of universe.
Real before EV won 3 CLs in 4 seasons and AGAIN they won a CL in EV's 1st season here.
Barcaforum verdict: this is the worst Real Madrid in a history.
Do I even need to mention Simeone's Atletico vs Atletico from Pep's era?
In the first EV's season, his two main rivals:
Real won a CL in 2018.
Atletico won Europa league in 2018.
Barcaforum verdict: we shouldn't even count EV's title. His opponents were on a Mickey Mouse level.
RM had voodoo magic Zidane, CR7, Modric, Kroos, Isco, Benzema.
Ev had Paulinho-Gomes-Rakitic midfield trio. And forever injured Dumbele, miss Denis and Deulofeu as wingers.
Barcaforum verdict: the worst coach in football since 1692'
Again, I am not saying that EV is good or that he should stay, but some posts here lately are a pure gold.
I mean, Pep can't do shit in Europe without Messi.
Yet, EV is all about Messi.
The thing is: every coach with Messi in his team is all about Messi.
Also, someone asked why can't we play nice and yet we have Messi?
Well, maybe having Messi is one of problems.
Remember all matches lately (under Lucho with Neymar being a key man) or under EV in preseason matches of when Messi didn't play: our guys looked way more like a team, they looked way more mobile, our combinations were way better.
Why?
Well, when you have Messi, why even bother to move or do off the ball runs when every single ball will be passed to Messi.
When Messi is not on a field, all players have 10 different passing options.
When Messi is on a field, all players have only 1 passing option: Messi.
I am not saying that we should get rid of Messi, but a legit question is: can this team even play faster, more mobile and more beautiful when all players need to pass the ball to Messi all the time.
In the last 5-6 years:
Tata's team with Messi played like a crap.
Lucho's team with Messi had 12 good Months and poor 24 Months.
Ev's team with Messi plays ugly for 24 Months.
All Argentina NT teams play horrible and ugly with Messi lately.
People will again reply: Argentina is a crap, Tata was a crap, EV is a crap, Lucho is so-so.
I mean, imagine Ajax who played a nice free flowing football this season with all players moving like crazy and playing nice passes.
Do you think that Ajax would have played that beautiful with 32 years old Messi, when every ball needs to be passed to him? Where Messi is "ruining" a formation, where he is dropping deep into a midfield (ruining a midfield setup of Ajax's team) and basically doing whatever he wants in tactical sense during a match.
That means that off the ball movement from other players become useless, team's actions become more predictable also.
So, basically, in the last 5-6 years (that is 10-12 years combined 6+6), teams with Messi played a nice free flowing football only for 12 Months under Lucho.
Other 11 years in both Argentina and Tata's, Lucho's and EV's Barca were more or less the same: static, slow possession based football.
With ball passed around the box all the time, and all players looking for Messi at the edge of a box, who will try to do some magic.
So:
1. EV is bad, but not as bad as people are making him to be
2. our team is old, mentally drained and we need rebuilding, but not with Dumbele and Malcom. If they are our future, we don't need rebuilding at all.
3. can we even play a free flowing attacking football with 32 years old Messi and Messipendencia in a team (before Cule4Life replies: but EV should tell players not to pass to Messi, lol. None coach in the world was able to change Messipendencia and passing to him all the time)
4. Real and Atletico are nowhere near as bad as people are making the to be
"Bad but not as bad as people are making him to be"
Yeah but that's totally up to what your idea of the "peoples" opinion is.
I don't think Valverde is the worst coach ever, i don't think he is the worst Barca coach in the last years, not even a bad coach in general.
But at this very moment he is an absolute horrendous choice in my opinion. You always bring it up the team is old and mentally drained. And so is Valverde. Honestly that guy might be the most boring and uninspiring man i've ever seen in football and thats exactly how the team plays.
We all know NOTHING will change. He has his favorites, his style. We will continue to see this shitshow week in and week out. There will be no squad overhaul, no fair chance for youngsters because the granny turtles earned their Ernie coins.
Valverde might win the league again, but another coach could manage to do that as well i mean that's not really a bold prediction with Messi providing like 40 goals alone. Barca will end this season with less points than Lucho in his last season so sometimes it really is about the opponents underperforming and not just Ernie being the unbeatable league god that does what nobody else can achieve.
The team needs fresh blood. Not a complete rebuild but a coach with a vision, equal chances for players, no fixed favorites and offensive, entertaining football. Valverde will field Busi-Raki-Suarez every game again and again you know it, i know it, we all know it. And the players know it too and that's probably the reason they want him to stay. Great way to prepare for the future with our granny squad
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BarçaBarça
New member
People are right that we don't have a vibrant, positive and creative/novel vibe around us anymore.
Valverde was the right coach to steer through the storm when Neymar betrayed us, and the club could have had a blank season.
Now, what was his strengths and forces, which we couldn't get in other coaches, has turned and become a weakness. The corner from Liverpool at 3-0 shows this.
A risk-taking, novelty-thinking, innovative vibe in the Liverpool team brought up the idea and they acted quickly. It is like the pass from the penalty Messi-Suarez in the Celta victory.
We don't have that creativity and buzz around us, and now it shows in the performance and results. Therefore I think the right thing to do would be to get fresh ideas into the team, and sack Valverde. It isn't the best timing, as not many great coaches are available, although Allegri is out there - but maybe he will be too pragmatic/not innovative enough as well?
Tuchel is too innovative for his own good, and Ten Haag is a small teams coach.
Some of the fresh ideas can be brought in with the best transfer-window for years, like getting De Ligt, De Jong and Griezmann (+rumours about Rodri). That would be truly amazing, with the old ideas leaving in Rakitic, Coutinho (maybe even Suarez and Busi if Rodrigo comes? :wow. That would help, but not do the whole deal, as I see it.
Valverde was the right coach to steer through the storm when Neymar betrayed us, and the club could have had a blank season.
Now, what was his strengths and forces, which we couldn't get in other coaches, has turned and become a weakness. The corner from Liverpool at 3-0 shows this.
A risk-taking, novelty-thinking, innovative vibe in the Liverpool team brought up the idea and they acted quickly. It is like the pass from the penalty Messi-Suarez in the Celta victory.
We don't have that creativity and buzz around us, and now it shows in the performance and results. Therefore I think the right thing to do would be to get fresh ideas into the team, and sack Valverde. It isn't the best timing, as not many great coaches are available, although Allegri is out there - but maybe he will be too pragmatic/not innovative enough as well?
Tuchel is too innovative for his own good, and Ten Haag is a small teams coach.
Some of the fresh ideas can be brought in with the best transfer-window for years, like getting De Ligt, De Jong and Griezmann (+rumours about Rodri). That would be truly amazing, with the old ideas leaving in Rakitic, Coutinho (maybe even Suarez and Busi if Rodrigo comes? :wow
. That would help, but not do the whole deal, as I see it.
snowy
Well-known member
lol you make it sound like mission impossible
one more reason to sign ultra-confident, alpha-type players hungry to stamp their own mark, and not afraid to take their own shots.
+ a coach who'd encourage them to do so and inject more attacking options, free-flow and unpredictability.
Would make it so much easier for Leo, and he'd have a lot more fun on the pitch as well, mixin it up and jammin with the others
happy feet footy-jazz ouh yeahhhhhh 
BBZ8800 :
One or two good points but some dumb points too.
'Real are not nearly as bad as people are making out them to be' have a word with yourself, they're on course to finish the season with 68 points. SIXTY EIGHT. They've lost Ronaldo and have lost a coach during the season they were that bad. This is as bad as Real Madrid have been for several years yet you're trying to claim somehow it's an achievement to finish ahead of them?!?
Secondly, you mention 2015/16 and 2016/17 seasons as evidence of I don't know what tbh, but in the former, Real finished the season with 90 points and Atletico 88. In 2016/17 Real won the league with 93 points. So now you compare that to this season and the difference is fucking huge. What is revisionism about these stats? They don't lie.
The truth is EV HAS won a poor La Liga compared to previous seasons, like I said, Real just lost again today and they're stuck on 68 points and Atletico have only got 76. It's plain to see. What's worse, EV has won this poor league whilst playing dog shit football!
One or two good points but some dumb points too.
'Real are not nearly as bad as people are making out them to be' have a word with yourself, they're on course to finish the season with 68 points. SIXTY EIGHT. They've lost Ronaldo and have lost a coach during the season they were that bad. This is as bad as Real Madrid have been for several years yet you're trying to claim somehow it's an achievement to finish ahead of them?!?
Secondly, you mention 2015/16 and 2016/17 seasons as evidence of I don't know what tbh, but in the former, Real finished the season with 90 points and Atletico 88. In 2016/17 Real won the league with 93 points. So now you compare that to this season and the difference is fucking huge. What is revisionism about these stats? They don't lie.
The truth is EV HAS won a poor La Liga compared to previous seasons, like I said, Real just lost again today and they're stuck on 68 points and Atletico have only got 76. It's plain to see. What's worse, EV has won this poor league whilst playing dog shit football!
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