Ernesto Valverde

[soul24rage]

Its clear i was talking about Barca, you are not dumb.

Barca accomplished nothing of note for years after Valverde left, and yes, Messi performed worse after he left, simple as that.

If you're judging Messi's performance based on the La Liga league wins, then this is simply not true.

Messi got 30 goals and 9 assists in La Liga in 20/21

In 18/19, 36 goals and 16 assists

In 17/18, 34 goals and 12 assists

Considering 20/21 was in the phase of rebuillding with young new talents like Pedri, Araujo, Dest, Mingueza and etc. it is expected that there will be a bit of dropoff in terms of numbers but the difference is small.

 

[Morten]

Morten's raging boner for EV as a RM fan (and constant insinuation that somehow EV was the one who was making Messi look good) is seriously making me consider lumping him in with the trolls, who predictably are in a twerking frenzy over this above average coach like he is some Pep.

The EV making Messi look good argument only works if Messi didn't score as much before EV and also after EV.

Before EV: Messi averaged 50 goals and 20 assists (70 G + A) for 9 (NINE) straight years from 08-2016 Including some years with like 120 G +A (2012). Won 3-4 CLs before EV, bunch of LL, bunch of cup finals.

After EV: Messi was an aged player almost 33 and become more and more of an attacking midfielder. His goals dropped, assists stayed same or went up. But in this phase post EV, he won World Cup, Copa, Finalissima, and other trophies.

The occasional shitpost with the EV made Messi look good narrative by Morten and co. is ok for shits and giggles but the mods need to start slapping some sense when it builds into this trolling frenzy

I said Messi performed better with EV, not that he was bad without him, get it right.

Did Messi suddenly "get old" the moment EV was sacked, or could it be, that EV, much like Argentina coach, had a set up to get the best out of him?

Perhaps the players liked EV, because they genuinely thought he was good coach?

 

[KingLeo10]

I said Messi performed better with EV, not that he was bad without him, get it right.

Did Messi suddenly "get old" the moment EV was sacked, or could it be, that EV, much like Argentina coach, had a set up to get the best out of him?

Perhaps the players liked EV, because they genuinely thought he was good coach?

Ya bum, Messi had like 40 goals right after in Koeman's first season, about the same as he scored in 17/18. Despite being an older player.

He was like 34, going on 35 at PSG. Age catches up with everyone at some point, and he was more interested in Argentina where he's scored 30 goals in like 30 games since he left EV

Scaloni >>> EV. Don't dare put both in the same sentence. EV will never have the balls to make a decision to start Di Maria in the World Cup final after not playing all tourny + starting him on the LW.

EV shat his pants in CL QFs...forget World Cup

 

[Morten]

If you're judging Messi's performance based on the La Liga league wins, then this is simply not true.

Messi got 30 goals and 9 assists in La Liga in 20/21

In 18/19, 36 goals and 16 assists

In 17/18, 34 goals and 12 assists

Considering 20/21 was in the phase of rebuillding with young new talents like Pedri, Araujo, Dest, Mingueza and etc. it is expected that there will be a bit of dropoff in terms of numbers but the difference is small.

The numbers were a little less, but its not just that, 18/19 was a season of great performances in big games, not quite the same in later season.

The point is, it helps to have a coach that knows what he is doing, unlike Setien and Koeman, who didn't, really.

 

[soul24rage]

Ya bum, Messi had like 40 goals right after in Koeman's first season, about the same as he scored in 17/18. Despite being an older player.

He was like 34, going on 35 at PSG. Age catches up with everyone at some point, and he was more interested in Argentina where he's scored 30 goals in like 30 games since he left EV

Scaloni >>> EV. Don't dare put both in the same sentence. EV will never have the balls to make a decision to start Di Maria in the World Cup final after not playing all tourny + starting him on the LW.

EV shat his pants in CL QFs...forget World Cup

Agreed, Scaloni is on a higher level than EV. Scaloni has the balls to drop underperforming veteran players and play young guys like Enzo, MacAllister and Julian who have a combined cap of 23 (most of them are just sub appearances) in a World Cup. Scaloni also changed different formation, tactics and personnel that would help neutralize the opponents.

Even when France and Netherlands equalized, the team didn't break down mentally and even played better after they equalized.

In terms of Tactics, Team Mentality and Chemistry, and Press Conference (pretty much everything), Scaloni is much better.

 

[soul24rage]

The numbers were a little less, but its not just that, 18/19 was a season of great performances in big games, not quite the same in later season.

The point is, it helps to have a coach that knows what he is doing, unlike Setien and Koeman, who didn't, really.

EV is another level above Setien and Koeman, agreed on that part.

 

[JamDav1982]

Sad part is one of his main strengths is devloping young players and getting them to play in a structured dynamic way... none of which he could do at Barca previously.

Valverde now with time to develop players would be as good as Barca could get probably but he will never go back anyway.

Valverde took on a team reeling from losing Neymar and he wasnt the one choosing who came in... lets be accurate on that.

 

[Morten]

Are you mentally challenged or do you understand the fact that such strong conclusions can't be drawn without the remainder of the variables being constant.
Barca's finances are much weaker than in EV's days when he got like 300M to spend. The core group of winners is gone, and was already aging in his day.

The only strong conclusion you can draw is 2019-2020 season where EV led Barca half of it, Setien the other half. Everything else was relatively the same and EV outperformed Setien. No shit everyone here agrees NOW that EV >> Setien.

The Messi post EV shit is flawed for reasons I outlined in the other post. You are not dumb. Stop trying to audition for a place among the trolls.

Yeah, that's the thing, isn't it? Everyone here agrees to that now, yes, but I remember the mood at the time, people were having a big party over the sacking.

Do i think EV is the best coach in the world? No, but he is a decent one, that so few thought sacking him mid-season with everything still to play for, was a mistake at the time, is honestly kinda funny to me.

 

[JamDav1982]

The club didnt pay 60m+ Arthur for Pjanic.

It was a player swap with Barca getting 10m.

They inflated the price of both up to 60/70m to do it.

No one was ever paying that fee for either of them realistically.

 

[Windhook]

Juve were prosecuted for that and the real price, I believe, was never announced publicly.

 

[JamDav1982]

Juve were prosecuted for that and the real price, I believe, was never announced publicly.

Yes and for the inflated costs of the players in the swap deal. That type of deal only works if can benefit both clubs.

It was never 60m + Arthur for Pjanic.

In that scenario there would be nothing to prosecute Juve for really;

It was widely reported as a player swap with Barca getting 10m on top.. that was probably difference in salary Juve would still pay Pjanic.

Both clubs did announce the 'fees'....

72m + 10m for Arthur
60m + 5m for Pjanic.

 

[JohnN]

The mister schooled Xavi as expected. imagine how bad xavi is

 

[Windhook]

It's a loss in extra-time. If Lamine had scored that chance the narrative would have been totally different. Remember last season Xavi kicked EV's ass 4-0 with some different lineup.

 

[JamDav1982]

The narrative would been that was a fortunate win and Barca were poor.

Much like the Sociedad game.

 

[Messigician]

It's a loss in extra-time. If Lamine had scored that chance the narrative would have been totally different. Remember last season Xavi kicked EV's ass 4-0 with some different lineup.

Stats wouldn’t lie boy

I also see KingTwerker10 is busy liking any apologist post he can find

We see your agenda boy don’t push things @KingLeo10