khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Bayern is one of the clubs that actually pushed for ESL, they just didn't like the plan and bailed out.
European Super League
- Thread starter Sterlingfan2000
- Start date
Bayern is one of the clubs that actually pushed for ESL, they just didn't like the plan and bailed out.
fergus90
Senior Member
For the Super League to survive it would have to replace the Champions League and probably exclude participation from domestic cup competitions like FA Cup, Copa Del Rey, Coppa Italia etc for the qualified teams.
Likes of Barca, Madrid etc overestimated their worldwide popularity and power when originally announcing the super league as if the population would be willing to scrap their entire domestic leagues just to watch 12 or so clubs play each other on a regular basis without any chance of elimination for permanent members. Sure getting to see Real vs Bayern or Barca vs City 5 times a year would be a bit more exciting, but not at the expense of sporting merit and domestic competition.
How it was originally presented made it sound more like a travelling circus than a sports competition.
All well and good if you support some of those big clubs, not so much for the thousands of other clubs kicked to the curb.
Likes of Barca, Madrid etc overestimated their worldwide popularity and power when originally announcing the super league as if the population would be willing to scrap their entire domestic leagues just to watch 12 or so clubs play each other on a regular basis without any chance of elimination for permanent members. Sure getting to see Real vs Bayern or Barca vs City 5 times a year would be a bit more exciting, but not at the expense of sporting merit and domestic competition.
How it was originally presented made it sound more like a travelling circus than a sports competition.
All well and good if you support some of those big clubs, not so much for the thousands of other clubs kicked to the curb.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
The way the ESL was sold was an all time marketing gaff.
Was all too arrogant and closed off.
They should have been going down road of UEFA corruption, not dealing with racism, FFP etc correctly while UEFA making fsr too much money off of the clubs and not giving money back.
Instead they just bulldozed in with owners who were used to getting own way thinking had too much power.
For EPL teams I can 100% see why they wouldnt want it but for anyone else.. it is far better alternative than being EPL feeder leagues with a few huge clubs and many struggling to survive.
El Gato
Villarato!
Indeed wont pass unless EPL teams in it
No 'initial' ESL is likely to be viable as market too small to justify leaving current system for
If tried, EPL teams will simply stay in own league, reap benefits, watch it bomb and then join the next iteration on much better terms as the rest of Europe will be begging them to at that point
As above makes no sense do one format on weekdays and proceed to weekend later.
It'll either replace CL near 1-to-1 or it'll replace domestic comp on weekend and bombard its popularity as it is thrown into midweek at which point playing it makes little sense as locals lose interest attending
Competitive games is not as big a factor. It only matters as long as there's viewership, which ESL, especially in your model w/o EPL, doesnt promise.
Clubs outside EPL mostly want to be back in position from pre-2015 era where leagues were not seen as inferior through explicit difference in quality across the board of all clubs (players going from a side in Spain-Italy to a relegation candidate in EPL or Championship team) or implicit (more football chatter and interest generated around the English league as cross-country communications between fans and businesses are mostly in English).
They want the dough that EPL has amassed
There's no guarantee of an upgrade and certainly not at all of any spectacle going just by prestige of teams pitted against one another
Milan v Barca with either team playing cagey is same quality as Osasuna v Barca.
Only thing the format has going for it is a bigger likelihood of an upset but zero guarantee and folk will begin regretting binning the former format sooner than embracing the new considering difference isnt huge
That + you're removing local history that very often caused games to be better than were on paper in leadup
Roma far more likely to raise game against Lazio than vs Real
Spike in popularity towards beginning of ESL due to novelty and then folk will whittle out as see it for what it is
Teams will continue to guide their ESL season as they have the leagues - they will play for result to place better in table and receive bigger bonus for position
Opposite of making a spectacle on name alone
Spectacle is not driven by team resources, but by approach of managers and players, identities of teams etc
Nor will teams hire managers and players based on ability to provide spectacle, but those that will give better chance of keeping position whatever the means, especially considering the already existing gulf between EPL, Spain and the rest - Sevilla would build not to beat them and improve but to not be relegated (if that was ever in place TBF, ATM it wasnt)
Is why Argentina v France was a spectacle but England v France was a bag of shite despite quality at disposal
Best teams most often play less open vs better opponents and a better spectacle is when the game is more open
Nothing to do with 'big clubs playing big clubs'
No big club has to play better football vs another big club. Can play dross cagey shite as long as it benefits their position
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JamDav1982
Senior Member
It doesnt need the EPL teams in it.
Defeats the purpose if think that and they wouldnt join.
Would be massive viewrship without them.
When La Liga is getting over a billion based almost solely on two teams then in Italy it is estimated that a third of their tv money is generated by Juve for example.
When start putting these teams together the viewrship would be much bigger than they get in domestic leagues outwith EPL.
The growth and boom in EPL has been led by how many world wide popular teams they have which brought eyes and cash before the quality. Investment followed.
Defeats the purpose if think that and they wouldnt join.
Would be massive viewrship without them.
When La Liga is getting over a billion based almost solely on two teams then in Italy it is estimated that a third of their tv money is generated by Juve for example.
When start putting these teams together the viewrship would be much bigger than they get in domestic leagues outwith EPL.
The growth and boom in EPL has been led by how many world wide popular teams they have which brought eyes and cash before the quality. Investment followed.
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Messigician
Senior Member
Stfu u fucking old cunt
This. Makes more sense not to have them too. EPL teams inside doesn't stop the income disparity as English sides would just receive ESL+PL money and have more anyways.
Better to build an alternative.
CatalinR10
Senior Member
El Gato
Villarato!
It doesnt make sense not to have them as EPL would still have more pull than new ESL
EPL v ESL would only succeed for the latter if players started to migrate for more money (which isnt guaranteed) and novelty at start to try it, but difficult to predict how it'd grow. Over initial 3-5 years of it (if was to happen without the English) you'd still have more quality in Newcastle v City than in Barca v Inter. Again, spectacle part would have to come through there for that to succeed. Not just pitting Juve v Barca 2-3-4 times per season
EPL v ESL would only succeed for the latter if players started to migrate for more money (which isnt guaranteed) and novelty at start to try it, but difficult to predict how it'd grow. Over initial 3-5 years of it (if was to happen without the English) you'd still have more quality in Newcastle v City than in Barca v Inter. Again, spectacle part would have to come through there for that to succeed. Not just pitting Juve v Barca 2-3-4 times per season
Neeraj
Senior Member
Couple of things.
First up, they won this in a Spanish court - doesn't that mean it only applies for the spanish clubs, and doesn't mean squat for clubs in other countries? Also, is this even the highest court in Spain or can they just escalate this to the equivalent of the High or Supremene court or whatever?
With respect to the ESL itself - I was staunchly against it at first. For me, the idea of a 'big CL night' is special because it's a rare occasion. Take away the rarity and that special feeling is lost. Also the point about local leagues, discovering new talents, finding new clubs that rise to the top...all of that is destroyed. With even lesser money local leagues will basically become obsolete. I don't know, all this seems terrible.
If I've gone from 100% to 80% with respect to my objection, it's that we can all clearly see the EPL machine get stronger and I think the covid phase has kickstarted an irreversible part of the process and it's like we've hit the point of no return now where year after year, the accumulated covid losses and ever widening revenue gap will keep growing and as a result result in even more financial pain in a vicious cycle.
Not really sure what the right answer is...an ideal scenario in my head would seem to be if we could combine Italy France and Spain into one league, and everything else remains the same
Germany does alright financially so they can exist on their own...Southern European League - with relegation, etc. being maintained as is. You play domestically and when you graduate from each country's second division, you're thrown into the SEL
First up, they won this in a Spanish court - doesn't that mean it only applies for the spanish clubs, and doesn't mean squat for clubs in other countries? Also, is this even the highest court in Spain or can they just escalate this to the equivalent of the High or Supremene court or whatever?
With respect to the ESL itself - I was staunchly against it at first. For me, the idea of a 'big CL night' is special because it's a rare occasion. Take away the rarity and that special feeling is lost. Also the point about local leagues, discovering new talents, finding new clubs that rise to the top...all of that is destroyed. With even lesser money local leagues will basically become obsolete. I don't know, all this seems terrible.
If I've gone from 100% to 80% with respect to my objection, it's that we can all clearly see the EPL machine get stronger and I think the covid phase has kickstarted an irreversible part of the process and it's like we've hit the point of no return now where year after year, the accumulated covid losses and ever widening revenue gap will keep growing and as a result result in even more financial pain in a vicious cycle.
Not really sure what the right answer is...an ideal scenario in my head would seem to be if we could combine Italy France and Spain into one league, and everything else remains the same
Germany does alright financially so they can exist on their own...Southern European League - with relegation, etc. being maintained as is. You play domestically and when you graduate from each country's second division, you're thrown into the SEL JamDav1982
Senior Member
It makes more sense to have a ESL whether the EPL teams are in it or not in comparison to way it has gone and is going to get worse with EPL being so dominant financially.
ESL would generate huge money even without the EPL teams.
There are worse games than Barca v Inter now in La Liga and Barca/Real between them probably account for close to 1 billion alone.
Add that to likes of Juve/Inter/AC who will generate around half of the Serie a tv deal alone when playing worse teams.
Fans of those clubs will watch and will see higher quality sides than do at moment.
In turn would lead to more investment in those clubs most likely.. at least the ones open to it.
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El Gato
Villarato!
I agree a change is needed to stop monopoly
EPL v ESL scenario is just no use as IMO would eventually end up in ESL needing English anyway
Last proposal had 6 English sides, 3 Spanish, 3 Italian. If you were to convince Germans and French, that pool of teams still makes for no better a watch than current EPL on the weekly
Nobody will give a fuck about Real, Barca or Juve playing Leipzig, Inter and Marseille back to back, only to get a run of games like Atleti-Bayern every now and then
And neither will the players the ESL will need to come in to make it interesting
Unless ESL offers huge economic incentives for players to move (they already earn obscene amounts in England) there wont be enough movement come the dawn of EPL v ESL to rebalance
khaled mentioned it I think - political incentive will need to happen. Need to play it on the Brexit grounds to make it attractive to leave the island
If have English in it at least you get the opportunity to play the English all the time, show superiority and take share of the audience on the regular
At the moment English are better off playing against one another than going to play continental teams where they're bound to conk out more often
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JamDav1982
Senior Member
It wouldnt need the EPL teams and without them would still be better situation than is now.
Those teams carry support.
As said Barca will generate close to a billion for more or less Barca and Real.. Serie A fans are paying to watch Juve and other big teams.
Those fans will lap up those teams in bigger games more often and better quality.
Even if Spain and Italy combined just now the contract would be a huge increase on what either league gets just now.
Those teams carry support.
As said Barca will generate close to a billion for more or less Barca and Real.. Serie A fans are paying to watch Juve and other big teams.
Those fans will lap up those teams in bigger games more often and better quality.
Even if Spain and Italy combined just now the contract would be a huge increase on what either league gets just now.
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