Florentino Perez

[El Gato]

Do you have any evidence for the opposite? It's a pretty bold claim, young people watch/are interested in football as much as before.

Lots of factors to take notice of, btw.

eSports are growing exponentially, that much is true.
Football still has 4 billion viewers worldwide, eSport ~400M by comparison, but that is going to change as long as EPL route to monopoly continues. Video games have been kids' totem in their childhood, much like Ronaldinho and Zidane were to ours. It's for sure going to be the case that football will get less and less popular if nothing is done.

 

[Joan]

Considering Perez used it as a talking point for creating this super league, i'd say the burden of evidence lies entirely on those in support of the super league, those who are against doesnt have to prove anything.

You're either with us or against us, huh? thought we were talking about young fans being less interested in football than before. In that light, both sides could prove their positions, but neither does. Because it's hard. Many factors to consider, starting with football being widely available these days compared to before. When I was a kid, we could only see a few matches on TV, mostly Serie A, and highlights at the end of the week. But it does seem young people were much more interested back then. I'm aware it's anecdotal.

About the ESL: Perez and co.'s arguments seemed good enough to convince JP Morgan to invest, owners and presidents to join and take a risk. The idea seems simple, there are too many low-quality European matches which can't attract people and we'll try to offer them better football week in week out. Don't see many loopholes with the general picture, but it's no surprise football fans have problems with accepting a very non-european concept. At least in sports. It's kind of a novelty here. Americans seem to be less harsh.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Yes, eSport. Clubs are scrambling to go in eSport, including us who are competing on two games, PES and Rocket League (which I have no idea what it is).

Speaking of PES eFootball League, we are currently behind the likes of Arsenal and Schalke on the league table.

https://efootballpro.konami.net/league/table/

 

[BarcaOG]

Why would it inevitably become less popular?

Do any of you follow other sports? Have other hobbies and interests beyond football? I'm sure you all do. And we have jobs and some of you have children.

Yet you still manage to be engaged football fans.


Why are you assuming that won't be the case with young fans? People can have multiple interests. You are making the assumption that football will fail unless its fans are 100% dedicated to it and nothing else (which is presumably the problem with young fans--that they have other interests).

Well, I bet there are very very few people who are full-time soccer fans. Most people have multiple interests and multiple hobbies.

 

[Joan]

By the time it's obvious to all of us, it might be too late for a successful change. As Hegel put it: the owl of Minerva spreads its wings only with the falling of dusk.

 

[BarcaOG]

By the time it's obvious to all of us, it might be too late for a successful change. As Hegel put it: the owl of Minerva spreads its wings only with the falling of dusk.

Hehe, nice Hegel reference.

There is no denying there are problems in football. I simply am not convinced that the challenges it faces are young people's fault.

 

[Morten]

You're either with us or against us, huh? thought we were talking about young fans being less interested in football than before. In that light, both sides could prove their positions, but neither does. Because it's hard. Many factors to consider, starting with football being widely available these days compared to before. When I was a kid, we could only see a few matches on TV, mostly Serie A, and highlights at the end of the week. But it does seem young people were much more interested back then. I'm aware it's anecdotal.

About the ESL: Perez and co.'s arguments seemed good enough to convince JP Morgan to invest, owners and presidents to join and take a risk. The idea seems simple, there are too many low-quality European matches which can't attract people and we'll try to offer them better football week in week out. Don't see many loopholes with the general picture, but it's no surprise football fans have problems with accepting a very non-european concept. At least in sports. It's kind of a novelty here. Americans seem to be less harsh.

No, thats not how it works.
Did the side thats against ESL claim that young people are interested as ever in football? I dont think so.

There really is no "both sides" here.

You dont have to prove a claim you didnt make.

 

[Joan]

Hehe, nice Hegel reference.

There is no denying there are problems in football. I simply am not convinced that the challenges it faces are young people's fault.

I don't think they're young people's fault either. Would be pure hubris to claim that, but I wouldn't be surprised if Florentino tried.

It's about winning over young people and getting football high enough up their priorities ladder to follow it closely and pay. Starting with subscriptions.

 

[Porque]

Even if that were true--which, again, I doubt--what exactly would the SuperLeague do differently to fix it?

This argument also steers us away from the key issue here, which is money. The young fan position is just a sophistic justification. Young fans have less money than old fans. I doubt they would have the money to pay for the SupearLeague broadcasts and what not. When I was younger I certainly didn't have money to pay for PPV. All that would do is steer young people away from football.

But it's actually simpler than this: the SupearLeague is about generating more revenue. It is not about fans, or competition, and it is certainly not about cash-strapped young fans.

If the young fan knows all the best players and teams are in the ESL then they will watch and keep up to date with as there are no competing [football] products (there are other competing sports and entertainments obv).

The same with the World Cup. Revenue will rely on viewing figures which justifies sponsorship ad-spend, or advertising adspent and subscriptions to justify tv right prices.

The purists and die-hards will still watch the local leagues and competitions.

So Florentino is asserting to clearly make a club competition at the top of the totem poll focused on 15 teams targeted to a global paying audience.

It is not without flaws of course:-
-Would the 5 introductory teams each year be anything more than mere whipping boys?
-Would attention still be of deficit in the league phase, and only pick up when the knockouts start?

 

[Joan]

No, thats not how it works.
Did the side thats against ESL claim that young people are interested as ever in football? I dont think so.

There really is no "both sides" here.

You dont have to prove a claim you didnt make.

If pro et contra ESL is the only topic here, then yes. You're right.

 

[BarcaOG]

I really think that's the wrong way to go about it. That would alienate millions upon millions of people the world over who wouldn't be able to afford such subscriptions. Masking that as an effort to attract young people 'to save the sport' is insulting. Neither Messi nor Cristiano could have paid for such subscriptions as young children, by the way. They were poor.

I want the ESL people to be honest about what they're doing. They want to sell subscriptions to the kind of people who have the discretionary money to spend on such amenities--i.e. the middle and upper middle class of North America, Latin America, the Middle East and Asia.

Here's why that's wrong:

The two most popular multiplayer games right now among young people are Fortnite and Call of Duty Warzone. What do they have in common?



They're free. Not a subscription service.

 

[Joan]

How do you watch football these days?

 

[BarcaOG]

If the young fan knows all the best players and teams are in the ESL then they will watch and keep up to date with as there are no competing products. The same with the World Cup. Revenue will rely on viewing figures which justifies sponsorship ad-spend, or advertising adspent and subscriptions to justify tv right prices.

The purists and die-hards will still watch the local leagues and competitions.

We already do that for the CL. Not a good argument.

 

[KingLeo10]

BarcaOG is back with another gem of a signature.

Before Messi came to his prime at Barca (2008), Bayern had 4 CL and Liverpool 5 CL...while Barca had 2.

Man still hasn't learned his lesson from 2 bans. But I guess at that point, nothing will teach him.

 

[BarcaOG]

How do you watch football these days?

I pay for subscriptions. I am also lucky enough to have enough money to do so. When I was a kid and until my early 20s, I did not. I used to watch the CL for free sometimes when it was on, and I loved every bit of it. I would hardly be a football fan today if all of that had been behind a paywall.