Who has, then?
Franck Ribery
- Thread starter Barca_Ray_USA
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footyfan
Calma, calma
For a player to win a Ballon D'Or when he's not part of the team that won the most (especially a treble winning team that broke all sorts of records), he needs to be OUTSTANDING in his performance levels, not just stats. Ultimately, people will vote based on what they see and Messi definitely was more awesome in 2012 and 2010 (the two years when Barca weren't the most dominant team in terms of trophies won), both on an individual level aesthetically and by stats.
Hypothetically, what would a voter think of when they think of Messi in 2013?
1) INJURED
2) Goal machine, but without the same level of performances as before. But not even the player with most goals due to 1)
3) Missing in El Clasicos performance wise, with his team having 0 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses (one of them against a B team)
4) Part of a team that got trounced 7-0 in CL semis
5) Part of a team that barely won the Supercup, missed a penalty.
darthvader7888
Banned
Neither of those were his fault. They were due more to tactics. Plus he wasn't fully fit for 4. And he probably is the player with the most goals per game.
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Paganinisrvnge
New member
Messi has only played UCL match so far this season and he got a hat trick...
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
We had the exact same discussion several month ago, didn't we?
Time wasted, sigh.
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Your argument has two essential flaws:
(1) With the first setence you are basically saying that Ballon D'Or is not about individual performance, rather it should be awarded to a member of the team that won the most trophies. If that's the case (which just might, as we saw that's exactly what happened with the UEFA Best Player Award), sure it will go to a Bayern player. But why Ribery? What makes him stand out as much?
(2) Sure Messi is not as "beast mode" worthy as he was in the 2011/12 season, but that bar he set for himself was really high. Are you saying as long as Messi doesn't excel himself, as long as he doesn't match that 11/12 performance, regardless of how well he does, comparatively against other players, he should not be awarded the Ballon D'Or? If that's what you are saying, then who should it be awarded to? A member of the team has the best record? Or whoever had the most goals as you were suggesting (that Messi is not)?
Mind you this is not "The Messi Continuing Development Award", it is not given to Messi only if he continues to improve. It should be given to the player that has the best overall performance.
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footyfan
Calma, calma
They usually count the completed season UCL stats, so 2012/13 season.
It's not an argument, I'm telling you what will likely happen.
Also, Messi was better in 2010 than in 2012
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
hold on, didn't you say "... needs to be OUTSTANDING in his performance levels, not just stats" ?
So are stats the best yardstick or not?
footyfan
Calma, calma
As far as an argument goes, it's very difficult to draw the line as to who should win, the best overall performer who has nothing to show for it, or the best player of the team that wins the most.
I think it would really depend season to season, based on the player's level and the extent to which it might outweigh team achievements. For example, Messi was ..sort.. of fortunate that there was no team like this Bayern side in 2012 - because that would've been a really really hard decision.
Which is why the only evidence we have as to who should or should not win is what the voters decide.
I think it would really depend season to season, based on the player's level and the extent to which it might outweigh team achievements. For example, Messi was ..sort.. of fortunate that there was no team like this Bayern side in 2012 - because that would've been a really really hard decision.
Which is why the only evidence we have as to who should or should not win is what the voters decide.
footyfan
Calma, calma
By needs to be, I don't mean it as a criteria, I mean it as "what should/needs to happen" that will make people vote for him. Stats are not the best yardstick on their own, but this time even the stats are not fully on Messi's side.
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
So who will win it, in your opinion? And why?
F
Flavia
Guest
Imo, this year no player has really stand out. As they count the calendar year for the bdor. Messi's injuries are really annoying, he'd be the clear winner again, if not for them. Right now I think ribery is the one likely to win it.
Maria
New member
How many points did Barca lost in the league when Messi was injured? And we were dreadful with or without Messi.
It's not a bad argument when one of the criterias for the BdO is the team's performance and trophies.
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