Frank Lampard

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Neither he nor Gerrard have produced their club form for their country though, and to be quite honest, only Ashley Cole and Michael Owen can really say they've been a success over that the last 10 years (before injuries got the better of Owen). We've produced a number of top players down the years and they've simply failed to shine like a long list of England players since 1966. A player should never be judged by the International stage though, it's incredibly unfair.

It’s just the way it is though mate, look at Messi back home, Argentina’s 3rd best sportsmen 2012! :lol:

I’m not a Chelsea fan myself and I have to say when I think of Lampard I generally think of his below average or lack of interest performance’s for England rather than how good he’s been for Chelsea due to me supporting England.

Nope Gerrard hasn’t done it for England either, but it's not through lack of effort and he as at times reached his Liverpool levels for England, especially recent times, I thought he was fantastic at the Euros. When I think of Gerrard for England, he started out for England fantastic as a youngster, my early memories of him playing for England was taking the game to great Brazil side of 02 as a 21 year old, but for some strange reason in his prime and best days for Liverpool his international performances declined and (as said) now improved since he got captaincy :eusa_think:

Lampard on the other hand, there has never been a time where Lampard as shown club form for his country and there as never been a time where i have gone, 'damn, if only Franky Lampard was playing' and for sure I would say that influences my opinion on him as a player sometimes.
 

Deco 20

Scandinavian 101
It's weird how this thread is comparing Lampard and Gerrard, two players of similar level, and the Van Persie thread is comparing RvP to Suarez, another comparison of similarly skilled players. Just be happy you're witnessing both.


But I agree that Gerrard has been much better for England. He was by far the best Englishman in the euros.
 

DavidVillano1

New member
Gerrard, Scholes and Lampard all didn't take their club form into the International scene for various reasons, none more so that trying to fit them into a team.

Not convinced Gerrard had a better International career either, would love to hear the thinking behind this one?

Gerrard certainly didn't perform to the level Lampard did at Euro 2004 at any tournament, the same tournament Gerrard was gifting goals to France. Lampard has a better scoring return in less games as well, IIRC he's the fifth highest English scorer in competitive matches, Gerrard is a couple places at least below that. Probably just another case of underrating Lampard and overrating Gerrard.

Would certainly say it was up for debate, but to claim Gerrard was 'much better' is absurd IMO.

Pretty much agree with everything Karnivore said previously, Lampard's passing is underrated. His pass to Ramires against Barcelona was fantastic(shouldn't go there though :( )
 
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Raed

Dr. Raed St. Claire
I actually don't dislike Frank the Tank but he doesn't fit Fiorentina's system at all, although he's probably not ideal for Serie A in general I could see him doing a good job at Lazio.

lazio's game is very vertical and none is better at making a game a lot more vertical than Frank the Tank. I also disagree, I have a feeling he'd do well in Italy.
 

La Furia

Legion of Doooom
lazio's game is very vertical and none is better at making a game a lot more vertical than Frank the Tank. I also disagree, I have a feeling he'd do well in Italy.

Well both Fiorentina and Lazio denied interest, so perhaps he's on his way to Inter?

He would have fit at Lazio actually, that would be fun to see, but I doubt he takes so much of a wage cut as to be affordable by an Italian side that isn't based in Milan or Turin.
 

antonnn

Blue Blooded Aussie
Haha so the Lampard-Gerrard debate rears its head again? Everyone knows Gerrard had more talent, but he's dumb as shit really, meanwhile Lampard is extremely intelligent and has an IQ that many people in the world don't have, let alone footballers, and used it to forge a career better then guys who have much more talent. Gerrard doesn't have the longevity either IMO, the guy was finished a while ago, he's having his first slightly decent season meanwhile Lampard is benched half the time and is still probably going to complete another season with 10+ goals in the EPL, which would make it 10 years straight, and he already holds the record for doing it 9 seasons running. Also one of 5 players to break 150 EPL goals(being the only midfielder) and Chelsea's 2nd highest ever scorer with 193. I mean, yeah it's all statistics and people will always take the shit out of him cause he scored a lot of penalties, but hell, like I always say, somebody has to take them, and Lamps has been extremely reliable in that for the majority of his Chelsea career. Oh yeah, 2nd highest assists tally in the EPL too, but apparently all he does is play shit and score penalties!

TBH I want him to stay, even with his declining ability and that, he's still a good example to the team. Terry and Cole can piss off now, but if there's an elder statesman that should stay to help with completing the transition from the old side to the new, it's him.
 

antonnn

Blue Blooded Aussie
Here's a great article, I quite like John Brewin for ESPN.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/blog/_/name/espnfcunited/id/2651?cc=3436

Universal appreciation for Lampard long overdue
Posted by John Brewin

There has always been something about Frank Lampard. Few footballers can divide opinion like him. For all his medals, goals and achievements, he has still spent a career being compared unfavourably to others.

Few could have predicted when Frank Lampard arrived at Chelsea that he would establish himself as one of their greatest ever players

The 1996 video that ESPNFC podcast presenter Dan Mason released to the world last week revealed that for one night only, he was considered not as good as Scott Canham, the learned opinion of one well-lubricated West Ham punter. Back then, it was Rio Ferdinand who was the "new Bobby Moore". Lampard meanwhile had 'Junior' added to his name.

His place in West Ham's team was seen as nepotism on the part of his uncle, Harry Redknapp, whose assistant happened to be brother-in-law Frank Lampard Sr, an Upton Park legend with 660 appearances for the club. The floppy-fringed attacking midfielder could do little right in the eyes of some Hammers fans, even when showing off an ability to score goals from midfield, and running his chubby legs off for the cause.

"Right to the very top," is what Uncle Harry predicted while a clearly embarrassed Lampard Jr looked on and an unconvinced audience murmured. After all, Joe Cole, three years younger, was always going to be better than him. And cousin Jamie, of Liverpool fame, had been and done it already.

Uncle Harry was nearly bang on too. In 2005, Frank Lampard, with Dad now having to put with being called "Senior", was voted the second-best player in both the Ballon d'Or and FIFA World Player of the Year. Only a high-peak Ronaldinho could talk down to him.

However, back in third in the Ballon d'Or, there was someone else. Steven Gerrard embodied everything that an English midfielder should be. He made driving runs, scored vital goals, led by example, exerted boundless energy, and had the majesty of winning in Istanbul to his name. Lampard could not match that flourish. He never scored goals quite like Stevie did.

Someone at Chelsea seemed to agree, even if Jose Mourinho always spoke of Frank in the highest terms. They spent two summers trying to sign Gerrard. He was but a last-minute change of heart away from making the King's Road his footballing home. Had he done so, Lampard would surely have been the player forced to make adjustments to accommodate the new star.

By that time, one of English football's longest running and most ultimately futile debates had begun in earnest. Could Gerrard and Lampard play together for England? And if not, why not and then who must be dropped? The answer to that almost always leaned towards Lampard. Gerrard was the special one, the passion player who would drive England to glory.

Lampard's presence had already offended another camp. At Euro 2004, Sven Goran Eriksson had decided that to shoe-horn the Gerrard/Lampard axis he would play Paul Scholes on the left wing.

Even nine years ago, Scholes was no-one's idea of a fleet-footed runner of channels. Lampard the arriviste had supplanted the most singular English midfield talent of the last 20 years. Scholes took his leave of international football with Lampard handed blame, even though it was Eriksson's cowardice of selection that caused the problem.

What is it about Lampard that invited such suspicion? Why was he not cherished by those outside Stamford Bridge? Well, Lampard is a curiosity in English football. He is not the street footballer that Gerrard, Scholes, Cole or Wayne Rooney all represent, reason being that he has probably rarely played street football. Frank Sr sent him to an Essex public school, an educational world away from most of his footballing peers; none of his team-mates are likely to have an A* GCSE in Latin. Lampard is also blessed with a 150-plus IQ, in the top 0.1% of anyone, let alone footballers, which may rule out his being on the wavelength of Ashley Cole, though John Terry was said to be in the top three of the Chelsea players measured when they were tested in 2009.

Lampard's intelligence, both learned and innate, is reflected in his play, and therein lay more reasons for his not being taken to purists' hearts. English football trusts natural ability above all else. Self-made players who worked on their game to reach the top like Kevin Keegan were always regarded as lesser mortals to George Best, even if the latter's gifts were drained in the same manner he regularly demolished goblets of white wine.

When Chelsea won the Champions League, they did so through a grit and tactical intelligence that was embodied by none other than Lampard. As his previous triathlete energy levels were diminishing, he redrew his play. He retained an effectiveness to so far escape Gerrard, who until recently looked rather lost amid Brendan Rodgers' philosophies. When England exited Euro 2012 in their usual manner, passed to death by Andrea Pirlo, it was apparent that the new Lampard - missing through injury - might have been the player they missed most.

At 34, Lampard has become appreciated like never before. The previously and perhaps understandably chippy interviewee now speaks with candour, with the air of one who has indeed been right to the top. Certain Manchester United fans would even be happy for him to replace Scholes in their soon-to-be vacant midfield elder statesman role.

An increasing distance from Terry may have helped the public image, but Lampard has become a credit to his club, just as its top-brass become eager to disassociate from him. Such is the chaotic way of Chelsea, the club he will leave this summer at the latest. He may not have possessed the gifts of Peter Osgood or Gianfranco Zola or been able to sign off with quite the same glory as Didier Drogba could in Munich, but 12 years of perpetual achievement in the club's richest years must grant him the title of Chelsea's finest ever player.

When Lampard does take his leave of Stamford Bridge, an imminent departure that leaves most true Blues aghast, he should do so being compared unfavourably to nobody.
 

antonnn

Blue Blooded Aussie
Yeah well he does need to actually put in some sort of contribution to merit starting games considering the years of mediocrity he's been suffering. And long shall he suffer! I was so relieved when he didn't join us, he would have failed massively. For a huge part of his career he could only play well when he was the main main main man and didn't seem to like it any other way, the selfish, unintelligent git. He'd never have been that at Chelsea and would have been shown up as a player who can only be a big fish in a small pond. And by small pond I mean surrounded by generally mediocre players who are happy to sit back and let him kick as hard as he can and hope it works, nothing against Liverpool's elite stature in the footballing world.

Anyway can we not tarnish the thread of a great man with talk of Gerrard, the argument over who is better and who had the better career is done, Lampard wins hands down, even the idiots who for the best part of a decade said Gerrard was better overall are coming around, says a lot really.
 

Semi-Neutral

Sir Alupp Heynrguson
Yeah well he does need to actually put in some sort of contribution to merit starting games considering the years of mediocrity he's been suffering.

Is most assists in the EPL a contribution to you? Especially when surrounded, by, as you said yourself, mediocre players? Now, before you say he has Suarez to feed, let me put this in perspective. In the entire 2012-13 season, Gerrard has 15 assists. Meanwhile, Iniesta, in this entire season, has 16 assists. One assist behind Iniesta is in no means the terrible player you make him out to be, especially when he has one more goal than Andres (5 to 4). Note, I'm not saying Gerrard is better than Iniesta, which would be ridiculous, but he is not awful like you make him seem.
 

abual3bed1

New member
Remember when rumors suggested that there would be an exchange deal between Deco and Lampard back in 2007 and 2008 :lol:
 

DavidVillano1

New member
You can't base someone's performances on 'assists' it's just a simplistic way of analysis. Assists are the worst type of statistics, they don't tell that much. Xavi and Iniesta regularly play the best passes in a move(Iniesta Euro 2012 for example) and someone like Cesc, Pedro, Alves play the simple final ball and get credited with the assists.

Cazorla has been excellent for Arsenal, arguably the best passer in the team, yet only has 1 more assist than the likes of Reading's Shorey and McAnuff who both have 4. Walcott and Podolski have more assists than him as well.

As for Gerrard, he's improved his performances in the last month, but let's not forget Rodgers had to come out and defend his poor form from Aug-Dec. People including Liverpool fans were questioning if he should be starting as he was struggling to adapt to the new system.

Gerrard has more opportunity to get assists over someone like Iniesta considering he takes nearly every set piece for Liverpool. A few of those assists this season have been from corners and free kicks, maybe more than 50%.
 
K

Karnivore

Guest
What's so funny about that? Same age, but Deco was on a major decline back then (he joined us for peanuts in 2008) whilst Lampard was still banging in 20 and assisting 20. In fact, in that period he scored 86 goals and assisted 52 goals in the space of three seasons, playing integral roles in a double winning season and back to back FA Cup wins.

Deco in his prime was brilliant, but he was more suited to the way Barcelona played than he would have been with us - even at his best, which only last for about four or five season stretching back to his Porto days. He failed big time when he joined us, just couldn't cope with the pace of the game, and this is another case of 'he's technically better so he must be a superior midfielder'.
 
K

Karnivore

Guest
You can't base someone's performances on 'assists' it's just a simplistic way of analysis. Assists are the worst type of statistics, they don't tell that much. Xavi and Iniesta regularly play the best passes in a move(Iniesta Euro 2012 for example) and someone like Cesc, Pedro, Alves play the simple final ball and get credited with the assists.

Cazorla has been excellent for Arsenal, arguably the best passer in the team, yet only has 1 more assist than the likes of Reading's Shorey and McAnuff who both have 4. Walcott and Podolski have more assists than him as well.

As for Gerrard, he's improved his performances in the last month, but let's not forget Rodgers had to come out and defend his poor form from Aug-Dec. People including Liverpool fans were questioning if he should be starting as he was struggling to adapt to the new system.

Gerrard has more opportunity to get assists over someone like Iniesta considering he takes nearly every set piece for Liverpool. A few of those assists this season have been from corners and free kicks, maybe more than 50%.

True, though in Lampard's case when your midfielder is regularly putting in 20+ assists a season it becomes a bit more than just a statistic - it also highlights how creative a midfielder he has been is, even if he isn't as easy on the eye.
 

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