Thats not what the guy said at all. He talked about most people on the forum ignoring the problem of our ageing players and believing in magic if we got more movement in the squad. Thats pure nonsense. As usual, he resorted to lies and exaggerations to ridicule the majority of the posters on the forum and then argue based on those lies and exaggerations. Why do that? Makes no sense.
Frenkie de Jong
- Thread starter DonAK
- Start date
- Status
Thats not what the guy said at all. He talked about most people on the forum ignoring the problem of our ageing players and believing in magic if we got more movement in the squad. Thats pure nonsense. As usual, he resorted to lies and exaggerations to ridicule the majority of the posters on the forum and then argue based on those lies and exaggerations. Why do that? Makes no sense.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
I didn't try to ridicule people, just saying that we won't be able to play faster and that it is way too simplistic.
Imo, the only 2 teams today who play beautiful, attacking, fast, football with a lot of movement are:
1. City
2. Liverpool
And both of them have these factors:
1. good coaches
2. coaches who came there and created a long term project of a specific football style
3. coaches who picked one style and got free hands to buy/sell longterm whomever they want in order to get that style
4. when these 2 coaches were building that system/project in those clubs, they mostly relied on young, hungry players who are both:
1) willing to learn
2) who are able to learn his ideas since they are young
3) who are highly motivated due to not winning too much in their careers
4) who are young and fast and who can obviously run (and run fast and run for 90 minutes) a lot
Now, let's check Barca:
1) we don't have a perfect coach, true
2) we don't have a longterm project at all. In one season, our core midfielders are Raki-Busi-Paulinho-Gomes, and 14 Months later, our midfield duo is supposed to be Frenkie-Arthur (and maybe Alena). That is like night and day difference.
So what is our longterm project? Technical midfielders, physical midfielders, TikiTaka, direct football? Nobody knows. Each 6 Months we have new ideas and we buy totally random players (Coutinho, Arthur, Frenkie, Paulinho, Rabiot?) with different skillsets.
3) further, our coach can't buy/sell whomever he wants
4) we don't have young players to implement coaches' ideas
5) we don't have motivated players (core players)
So, the problem and the idea of a project/system is way deeper and more complicated than simplified posts (which we can read all the time): remove Raki, Pique, Suarez and we will play way better.
Why do you care about semantics that much and whether 1, 10 or 101 users said that?
A lot of users share those views lately.
Anyway, my point, REGARDLESS of a number of users who said that is: we won't play faster or with more movement in the next season because we will play with BUSI, Arthur, Frenkie, MESSI, SUAREZ, Dembele. Busi, Suarez and Messi are "problems" for those new ideas and their age, lack of motivation and a lack of movement.
And other problems like mentioned in my previous post.
Anyway, my general idea was:
1. not too much will change with Frenkie, as long as we will have Busi, Messi and Suarez as starters. We will play exactly the same as today or only slightly better.
2. the only way to play way, way, way better is to turn the page and bench Busi, Raki, Pique, Suarez (and Messi one day) and play a new gen type of football with a lot of movement and with young players who can implement those ideas.
Anyway, on the last page, you had 2-3 posts with people saying: poor Frenkie, we will need more off the ball movement.
My reply was to those posts: nothing will happen with Frenkie coming here, as long as we have too many old players in a team.
And since Pique is a sacred cow, and Busi also (Catalan players), that won't change too soon.
This is not an attack on Messi, but he will play as a starter even aged 35 or 36.
How do people plan to play a faster football with all these players staying here till forever.
When Pep came to Barca, he sold majority of players.
At Barca, he created a new team with young players who were able to implement his new ideas. He didn't play with "old horses".
At City, he did the same.
Klopp at Liverpool, the same. All players are aged 20-27.
In short: we can't have both old players and a system with lots of movements and fast football.
And since no one will ever bench Busi and similar legends, that means that we won't be able to play that sort of football anytime soon.
Of course you try to ridicule people with your characterization of the people you disagree with. You constantly portray them as stupid even though they are often right and you are wrong. Why not show some more humbleness instead?
Regarding your attack on people for ignoring the problems with our ageing players, its simply not true at all. You're the one who advocate old players as the solution.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
I actually want Frenkie right now.
I don't have anything against him anymore, regarding HIM alone as a player.
I do have my doubts about Frenkie-Arthur-Alena/Puig and similar midfields due to physique, overall defending, age and similar.
I would like to see at least one more physical midfielder in that trio.
Regarding today's post, I do believe that longterm Frenkie can improve our team.
Short term, my point is that not too much will change as long as we have too many of old core players in a team.
So, basically I haven't said anything bad about Frenkie today (Jombi will now pull my post from August 2003' pre-Christ, lol).
I am just saying that imo, people who are expecting that our game will change in the next season with Frenkie-Arthur, imo, it won't.
Again, since we'll have a good old Busi, Suarez and Messi.
When those guys will be gone, we will be able to turn the page and play a new generation of football.
These older guys will play in their own way/style till their retirement. Old horses and new tricks story...
George_Costanza
Active member
BBZ is ok, but what you described above can fit some other posters in this forum.
Arizona Scott
New member
BBZ8800, I am just going to counter a couple of your points. One, while Pep and Klopp do have strong philosophies, they also are flexible. Pep is constantly evolving and tweaking, Liverpool this year for instance has rarely applied the gegenpress. Also they utilize veterans, just look at Silva, Aguero, Kompany, Milner, Henderson, Wijnaldum, but yes that have to get on board with a coherent approach and do their part. But Pep also gives Silva and KDB for instance a lot of creative freedom, this is afforded by the players and expectations around them, such as super high work rate for all the wingers.
I personally think a lot could change even with Messi, Suarez, Busi, & Pique on the squad. But they would get a lot more days off and really strong alternatives are needed. I also think Messi could adapt just fine, and would be wonderful with many pacy and high movement players around him. His anticipation, accuracy and passing range is as good as anyone. I don't think Barca's personnel is near as far away as you do, particularly if younger players like Dembele, Semedo, FDJ, Arthur, Lenglet keep growing, Umititi returns, or getting something from Tobido. I do think another pacey and high volume goal scoring forward is needed--there has to be an alternative to play to the tired/sore knee version of Suarez we get late in each season, and I still think he is a monster on his day but must be conserved. Coutinho more and more looks like a square peg and probably needs to be sold (fee that could go for a new #9 or winger/#9 combo), Malcom maybe too but we don't know enough. So am not near as gloomy about the roster as you.
It terms of manager if there is a big CL failure or any other (somehow we lose the league to Real) we could say hello to Pochettino. I think after Pep and Klopp he has the best pedigree (yes I know his teams don't win trophies but he puts them in positions to over much more resourced clubs). I gotta believe if the opp came, and he saw his limit was reached at Spurs, surely experience at Espanyol can't be the deal breaker when you have a chance to work with the fellow Argentine and further mark your marks together. Would be great if they are relegated so it really wouldn't matter.
I personally think a lot could change even with Messi, Suarez, Busi, & Pique on the squad. But they would get a lot more days off and really strong alternatives are needed. I also think Messi could adapt just fine, and would be wonderful with many pacy and high movement players around him. His anticipation, accuracy and passing range is as good as anyone. I don't think Barca's personnel is near as far away as you do, particularly if younger players like Dembele, Semedo, FDJ, Arthur, Lenglet keep growing, Umititi returns, or getting something from Tobido. I do think another pacey and high volume goal scoring forward is needed--there has to be an alternative to play to the tired/sore knee version of Suarez we get late in each season, and I still think he is a monster on his day but must be conserved. Coutinho more and more looks like a square peg and probably needs to be sold (fee that could go for a new #9 or winger/#9 combo), Malcom maybe too but we don't know enough. So am not near as gloomy about the roster as you.
It terms of manager if there is a big CL failure or any other (somehow we lose the league to Real) we could say hello to Pochettino. I think after Pep and Klopp he has the best pedigree (yes I know his teams don't win trophies but he puts them in positions to over much more resourced clubs). I gotta believe if the opp came, and he saw his limit was reached at Spurs, surely experience at Espanyol can't be the deal breaker when you have a chance to work with the fellow Argentine and further mark your marks together. Would be great if they are relegated so it really wouldn't matter.
FCBfan22
Senior Member
Hell will freeze over, before Pochettino coaches Barca. He stated that himself.
George_Costanza
Active member
It's just wishful thinking.
He may not be needed there though ..they’re getting better and better now as we do the opposite
xXKonan
Senior Member
He was pretty good, should at least have 2 assists (if his other team mates were a bit sharper).
Hopefully he can keep the upward trend. He's looking better and better. But he's still not the old Frenkie imo.
A lot of Ajax fans want him to carrying the ball forward more often. That what made him distinctive before the hype. A CB/DM that was dribbling past everyone. But he never lost the ball.
Now he's playing a bit more safe.
Hopefully he can keep the upward trend. He's looking better and better. But he's still not the old Frenkie imo.
A lot of Ajax fans want him to carrying the ball forward more often. That what made him distinctive before the hype. A CB/DM that was dribbling past everyone. But he never lost the ball.
Now he's playing a bit more safe.
Last edited:
- Status
Home of Barca Fans
