Frenkie de Jong

[BADGERBHOY]

That was regarding our future.
We always had some superstar players if we wanted to each heights.

The problem is: today there is more rich clubs than ever.
And in this moment, there aren't any obvious candidates at all to be Barca's leaders in the future.
Imagine if Messi retires this summer or leaves Barca.
We would buy some clowns like Sancho again.

So:
1. regarding our future, huge problems are infront of us

Further, regarding Xavi-Iniesta or players like Arthur, people forget that Xavi-Iniesta were the best.
Plus, they had Messi to bang 50+ goals per season from their possession game.
Now, if you don't have Messi to bang 50 goals from your passes, then you are just getting a sterile possession and not too many goals and victories.
Even Xavi-Iniesta would struggle without Messi in attack.
And then, my point is: if we'll have no Messi, no other star forwards, and if we'll have way weaker and way more sterile copies of Xavi-Iniesta, how much can we expect in upcoming years?

So: Frenkie-Arthur might work to some extent as long as we have Messi.
Even though, even now that duo don't work that well.
Imagine what will happen when we'll be without Messi and when we'll have that sterile duo. That was my point.

So:
1. you can build a team around 3 Arthurs and then you need something like MSN in attack to compensate for 3 Arthurs
2. or, if you can't buy 3 players like in MSN, then you will need some attacking minded midfielders to compensate for not so world class attacking trio

And then again, how things look currently:
1. we will have a shitty attacking trio post Messi
2. paired with insanely sterile midfield duo (in attacking terms)

Do you get me now?



I wouldn't say that they are top passers.
I would say that they are top passers in the sense: they will keep the ball, resist press, and find a teammate in the moments when 3 players are pressuring them.
So, they are kinda=perfect players for rondos=they will always avoid pressure and almost never lose the ball.

But then, football exists outside of rondos also.
In the attacking third, your main goal is NOT=to keep the ball no matter what and to avoid a pressure of the defender.
But to FIND space and see things which normal players can't see.

The 2nd part is similar to No10 from 90s.
Or let's say Michael Laudrup from our history.
You see, this kind of passing around the box and creating chances is way different to Arthur's passing where he is just avoiding opponents running at him and where he plays rondos in the middle of the pitch:

Cmon thats unfair comparing either of them with Laudrup. You're talking about one of the greatest playmakers we've ever had.
Easily Cruyffs biggest mistake was letting him go to Madrid so he could sign Hagi.

 

[mc_lovin]

Do you get me now?

Its not about getting you... you made the same points over and over again - its redundantly clear by now. Its about calling out your nonsensical rambling (off topic); with no solutions coming from you at all (see Martinez thread). But yeah, Laudrup was a nice footballer, too bad we cant clone him.

 

[Gnidrologist]

BBZ, you twat. You blame forum amigos for looking at Barca through rose colored pepistoera outlook on how football should be played, while posing as the 'realistic man' and then constantly compare our new, young signings "for future" to the likes of Xavi and Iniesta with post factum knowledge to undermine their current abilities and potential. All that given that non of the later were even close to be considered world class at this particular age.
You, buddy, sure have axe to grind and a huge chip on your shoulder. It's insa.. i mean, stunning.

edit:
you love to use tactics like "this player haven't been even called up for NT" so he sucks
How many matches Iniesta had played for Spain at the age FDJ is today?
(in before another goal post shift that suits your stunning agenda)

 

[serghei]

I hear what BBZ is saying, but he must realize that Messi right now is that player for us, and he draws a lot of the ball, basically eating away at other players carrying that role frequently. Also, Arthur and De Jong started only once so far under Setien. I say we give it time.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Yes, Messi is utterly detrimental to creativity of any other team member, because everyone, including Suarez, deems their duty to serve the GOAT, whenever possible and IMPOSSIBLE. Quite interesting social phenomena inside a football club. You just see how everyone sees Messi as sole savior and messiah and completely submits. De Jong is actually one of the few, who quite often sees Messi and denies him for more logical continuation.

 

[BBZ8800]

edit:
you love to use tactics like "this player haven't been even called up for NT" so he sucks
How many matches Iniesta had played for Spain at the age FDJ is today?
(in before another goal post shift that suits your stunning agenda)

Iniesta was a LW, RW and a CAM in his early days.
The point is that he had an attacking talent.
Frenkie is a CB-CDM.

There is nothing wrong with Frenkie alone.
Frenkie surrounded with right players is an awesome thing.

The bad thing is=Frenkie can't be surrounded by Arthur. Not in a 3men midfield.
Not in a team like Barca who wants to win.
That combo looks like something what a current Man Utd would have.

Barca plays majority of matches against Mickey Mouse teams where attacking is more important than defending.
And then we have 2 midfielders who are almost useless in the attacking 3rd.

If the goal of football would have been: who can keep the ball longer without the opponents touching the ball, then Arthur-Frenkie would be a perfect duo for breaking world records.
But sadly, in a current football, FIFA and UEFA have set the rules that a winner of the match is a team who scores more goals.
Under these rules, Arthur-Frenkie is far from the optimal combination for a team who wants to win every single match and all trophies.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Look, i dot disagree that we need good attacking midfielder. But we don't have and i don't see any good (especially one that suits us) on the market even, looking towards summer. Do you?

 

[JohnN]

I don't see Arthur and FDJ as a good cm pair. I would say Arthur needs to be the controller and FDJ should play instead of busi. Then we need the penetrating, forward thinking midfielder, who we currently lack. Iniesta had that role, and I guess Coutinho was supposed to be his replacement and was looking good on paper too.
Since we can't change the whole squad and older players should be prioritized to leave we will have Fdj and Arthur in the future. The question is, who should be our 3rd mid?

 

[BBZ8800]

Look, i dot disagree that we need good attacking midfielder. But we don't have and i don't see any good (especially one that suits us) on the market even, looking towards summer. Do you?

I don't see it either.

This is why we will be average and not a CL contenders.

In some eras there are a lot of good players to buy.
In some there are none.

Sometimes you are lucky with transfers.
Sometimes you are lucky with La Masia.

My point: you usually have to be lucky with some transfers, La Masia and you need to have a good ling term sporting project of buying the right players for a specific tactics.

A lot of things need to click if you want Cruijff's, Rijkaard's or Pep's team.

We have none of those.

Or when people replied: you can't compare players with Xavi or Laudrup.

Fine, but the only moments in our history when we were winning CLs was when we had Laudrup or Xavi plus Stoichkov, Ronaldinho or Messi.

If our key attackers will be Lautaro and Dembele, and a key creator Arthur, then guys=don't be mad for average results in the future.
Because expecting world class results with these players is insane.

 

[KingLeo10]

BBZ here is like someone trying to pass off fire as an invention in 2020. We’ve known since football was conceived that CL is overwhelmingly won by star/superstar players. It’s why historic clubs like Barca, Real, Bayern have had CL droughts.

Real won 6 in the Di Stefano/ Puskas/ Gento era, 3 in the Raul/ Casillas/ Galactico era, 4 in the CR7 era. They had a 32 year drought and a 12 year drought between the 3.

We won 1 in the Cruyff era, 4 in the Messi/ Xavi/ Iniesta/ R10 era. 35 year and 13 year droughts.

Bayern won 3 in the beckenbauer/ muller era, 1 in the Kahn era, 1 in the Robbery/Neuer era. 26 year drought, 12 year drought between the two.

This is literally common sense dawg. Just because those players don’t come by often doesn’t mean we literally stop trying as a football club. What sort of defeatist/ cuck logic is that

 

[Gnidrologist]

I don't see it either.

This is why we will be average and not a CL contenders.

In some eras there are a lot of good players to buy.
In some there are none.

Sometimes you are lucky with transfers.
Sometimes you are lucky with La Masia.

My point: you usually have to be lucky with some transfers, La Masia and you need to have a good ling term sporting project of buying the right players for a specific tactics.

A lot of things need to click if you want Cruijff's, Rijkaard's or Pep's team.

We have none of those.

Or when people replied: you can't compare players with Xavi or Laudrup.

Fine, but the only moments in our history when we were winning CLs was when we had Laudrup or Xavi plus Stoichkov, Ronaldinho or Messi.

If our key attackers will be Lautaro and Dembele, and a key creator Arthur, then guys=don't be mad for average results in the future.
Because expecting world class results with these players is insane.

Well, that's a rare reasonable opinion from you. Can't find anything i'd disagree with that. Yeah, we're long out of the 'good times' phase and it will probably be quite mundane for a long time now. I still don't get your ridiculous "critique" on both FDJ and Arthur, who are never the less, our most prolific midfielders besides Busquets, who is too old for this shit and Puig, who is too midgety even for Barca lmao. Everyone else is crap and soon to be sold, including fat uncle Vidal.

 

[Messigician]

Dejong needs to replace this giveaway merchant permanently

 

[Horatio]

It’s clear he’s being saved for the Napoli game. Setien figured that the midfield with Raki and Busi should be enough for Eibar at home.

 

[Gnidrologist]

He's so naturally DM. Should always be. Hope Setien understands this even tho his love for Busi, which is understandable.

 

[serghei]

It’s clear he’s being saved for the Napoli game. Setien figured that the midfield with Raki and Busi should be enough for Eibar at home.

Yea, I think Busi - Arthur - De Jong will be the midfield vs Napoli, with either Vidal or Fati up front, depending on how offensively we plan the game.

Sadly, I think Fati is a bit not ready for such a big and intense game in a Volcano like San Paolo.