Frenkie de Jong
- Thread starter DonAK
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messi2140
6racies Xavi
Not going to pretend that Im watching Ligue 1 but it seems the hype surrounding him completely died and the top clubs aren't after him anymore. Maybe [MENTION=15570]Newcomer[/MENTION] can shed some more light on this.
Messigician
Senior Member
Hi, sweetie
Here is my post from 2 days ago, I deleted it, but I'll post it again.
About a current Barca, I am mostly interested in following Barca and our forum due to psychology reasons to follow a human reaction to a downfall/abyss/Titanic level of circumstances.
90% of guys here act as if real life is a video game or a movie where there has to be a scenario, a button or a way to magically improve things in the end.
But as I have said: there doesn't need to be a cure/magic button and the most likely (let's say 90-ish %), there won't be a happy ending in our case.
Imo, football's success is a sum of a lot of different factors, like:
1. good youth academy products
2. some luck with youth academy
3. good transfers
4. having some luck on transfers
5. a good coach
6. a good system but compatible with players, coach and DNA of a club/country
7. good board, good-clear-and logical longterm plan of a club
8. money
9. leaders
10. mental strength of players
11. hunger for trophies
12. at least one superstar player (Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Messi) as a cherry on top
13. luck, momentum
14. opponent's NOT having the best generation in the last 20 years etc
15. luck with injuries
Now, when you analyze those factors, more or less we suck currently, let's check it 1 by 1:
1. good youth academy products = No. Just no.
2. some luck with youth academy = we had Xavi, Iniesta and Messi. Today we have Riki, Gavi and Nico.
3. good transfers = lol, no. No need to comment.
4. having some luck on transfers = bad transfers, insanely overpaid transfers and a lot of a bad luck since more or less none of the last 10 transfers worked out (Cou, Dembele, Griezz, Arthur, Frenkie, Semedo, Malcom, Denis, Gomes, Paulinho, Braithwaite, Pjanic, Firpo etc)
5. a good coach = No
6. a good system but compatible with players, coach and DNA of a club/country = No. You know my opinion, Pep's style worked only once and it will work never again. It worked due to a perfect mix of a perfect moment, Pep, Mr TikiTaka himself Xavi, Iniesta and Mesi. Without all ingredients, you get Arsenal or a current Barca/Spain. If we want to move forward, we can't. We are the most specific (and retarded) club in the world who is sticking to it's principles and now we'll run in circles for 20 years, and blame forever coaches, players, injuries, presidents, instead = maybe it's the system's fault?
7. good board, good-clear-and logical longterm plan of a club = No. It is connected with a previous point. We can't have a clear longterm plan since we are torn between chasing Pep and our roots, our DNA and moving forward to something better. So we'll just get a shitty version of Pep's football (way worse) or a so-so version of modern football paired with our DNA and our historical football.
8. money = No. We are in the worst position ever. And it is really bad due to oil money at Psg, City and Newcastle, ultrarich and popular of EPL and a huge downfall of La Liga and we'll lose even more money and sponsors in the future. Fati and Vinicius Jr won't attract sponsors.
9. leaders = lol
10. mental strength of players = lol again
11. hunger for trophies = younger players are hungry. But we still have Alba, Pique, Busi, Roberto.
12. at least one superstar player (Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Messi) as a cherry on top = No. Someone will say: Fati. But now imagine how shitty we are when we have fallen down from R9, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Etoo and Messi = to Fati as the best attacker. Can't run, can't dribble. Our future is bright.
13. luck, momentum = it is hard to provoke luck without money, without plans, with shitty coaches, with average players without leaders and courage to do anything while we are losing.
14. opponent's NOT having the best generation in the last 20 years etc = Real is meh. But EPL teams are very good, Bayern is good, Psg is insanely rich. Not a good moment for European titles.
15. luck with injuries = Dembele forever injured, Cou injured, Fati possibly ruined forever, Araujo injury prone, Umtiti damaged. Injuries are also against us.
So, when you remove emotions and if you analyze things like an outsider (in a way how we can estimate Juve, Bayern, Man Utd, Arsenal or Psg more objectivelly than estimating Barca), there really aren't too many reasons why we should be optimistic.
The only ones who could be optimistic are fans like Serghei, who is always putting enormous emphasis on coaches and acts as if they are more than 50% of a success.
Let's see if a good coach (Xavi) can work with average players.
The other portion of fans who are optimistic are those blind believers in La Masia, and who think that Fati-Pedri could turn into real deals, good enough to reach European top5 again.
You know my opinion, I am less optimistic.
About what I would do as a coach, there are 2 ways:
1. let's solve the debt, and selling Cou, Dembele, Frenkie, Pedri.
If Gavi-Nico are as equally as good/bad as Frenkie-Pedri and if the results are exactly the same with or without them, then let's sell them for 70m and remove a part of the debt.
It is irrelevant whether we end the 3rd, 4th or 6th.
We will lose either way to anyone in a CL or Uefa league
2. but that won't happen since we are Barca/brand and we can't fall that low because we will lose fans, sponsors and hype.
That means that Laporta won't be allowed to take that route, and he'll instead try to hire/sack coaches, buy new players each 6 Montths due to a new coach's wishes etc.
That means that we'll keep Frenkie-Pedri and friends.
I am not optimistic about Xavi, because you know my opinion about Pep's football in 2021, so we'll just return to 2009 and eventually it won't work.
I had some hopes for Ten Haag, and that he will bring a player or two and let him try his thing.
For Xavi, I have like 10% of hopes, so I don't have too much ideas what to say because he'll just play his shitty outdated football with 168cm players.
Against Rayo Vallecano, it'll probably work better than what we were seeing in the last few years, but imo there is no way that anything magical will happen with that type of football longterm, and especially in Europe.
So, if Xavi comes, it seems that my job as Barca's fan will turn to: reading and analyzing how other fans are coping with hope, downfall and reality.
And to see what will be a new round of eternal excuses and what will be the next hope/player/scapegoat on which a majority will cling on.
Ac Milan, Man Utd, Arsenal aren't any dumber than us.
Yet, they faced a decade of mediocricy.
They tried 100s of transfers, youth players, new coaches, nothing worked.
We are way, way, waaaaay more chaotic and less organized than all of those clubs, so I don't see a reason why we won't go through the similar path in the (at least) next several years.
The only good thing is that La Liga is a 2 horse race.
So, even if you suck, you'll end 2nd, 3rd or 4th.
While in EPL, if you suck like us (Man utd/Arsenal), you can easily drop to a 6th or 8th place.
So, in that sense, our downfall probably won't be as ugly as Man Utd's or Arsenal's just because we play in a league where it is harder to suck and drop out of top4.
So, no matter how we'll suck, we'll probably play CL forever.
Bro you are like the final boss for word limits
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Horatio
You're welcome
word*
Messigician
Senior Member
Tru
Question17
New member
Fatty is a the best of superstars no? If you are so entrenched in the football bubble you can miss this, but its so great that Barca's main star today has a name that reads like fatty in English.
.
Messigician
Senior Member
He addressed [MENTION=6099]JamDav1982[/MENTION] as sweetie
Peak BBZ innit
Excuse me for my bad english.
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I agree with a lot of the things BBZ says.
I said 3 years ago that De Jong does not have a place in 4 - 3 - 3 and therefore this is a very risky transfer.
His tactical mind, understanding of the principles of positional football is not at the level to play in position 6 in a 4 - 3 - 3 system.
To play position 8 in a 4 - 3 - 3 system, he does not have the other necessary skills.
We have 3 options with this guy:
1. We stay with 4 - 3 - 3 and sell this guy.
2. Go to 4 - 2 - 1.
3. Moving to 3 - 4 - 3. In this formation he will be left center-back. If the opponent keeps him free, he can do his favorite long-distance runs.
I don't like 4 - 2 - 3 - 1, so if we don't move to 3 - 4 - 3, I would like this guy to leave.
Now about the BBZ. Sometimes I agree with what he says. But not infrequently he speaks such nonsense that it seems to me that he writes after taking strong drugs.
He distinguishes between positional football and physically strong players, as if they cannot exist together.
What an idiot would say that Iniesta was physically weak? He was incredibly stable on his feet, strong, the same goes for Xavi, Puyol, Mascherano, Pedro. Yes, they were not tall, but they were strong guys. Their endurance and strength were at a good level.
Or Bernando Silva, his height is small, but this guy is strong and resilient.
As for Puig, I have to agree with BBZ. He should work out in the gym. He really looks very weak. Once again, I repeat, it's not about his height.
------------------------------------
I agree with a lot of the things BBZ says.
I said 3 years ago that De Jong does not have a place in 4 - 3 - 3 and therefore this is a very risky transfer.
His tactical mind, understanding of the principles of positional football is not at the level to play in position 6 in a 4 - 3 - 3 system.
To play position 8 in a 4 - 3 - 3 system, he does not have the other necessary skills.
We have 3 options with this guy:
1. We stay with 4 - 3 - 3 and sell this guy.
2. Go to 4 - 2 - 1.
3. Moving to 3 - 4 - 3. In this formation he will be left center-back. If the opponent keeps him free, he can do his favorite long-distance runs.
I don't like 4 - 2 - 3 - 1, so if we don't move to 3 - 4 - 3, I would like this guy to leave.
Now about the BBZ. Sometimes I agree with what he says. But not infrequently he speaks such nonsense that it seems to me that he writes after taking strong drugs.
He distinguishes between positional football and physically strong players, as if they cannot exist together.
What an idiot would say that Iniesta was physically weak? He was incredibly stable on his feet, strong, the same goes for Xavi, Puyol, Mascherano, Pedro. Yes, they were not tall, but they were strong guys. Their endurance and strength were at a good level.
Or Bernando Silva, his height is small, but this guy is strong and resilient.
As for Puig, I have to agree with BBZ. He should work out in the gym. He really looks very weak. Once again, I repeat, it's not about his height.
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He had a thigh muscle sprain if I recall correctly
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