Hans-Dieter Flick

[serghei]

Karius biggest match was the cl final against real.


But biggest game in career is a bit lazy imo. If he had advanced next game would be biggest. And if not mistake there final
would be biggest. You seem to have had him absolved of any wrongdoing from
that game and on already.

It’s not that araujo btw is not allowed to make mistakes. It’s also the manner in which. And way he handles it in aftermath.

I don't absolve him of anything, I wanted him sold this summer

 

[jamrock]

That is a truly impressive spin on the post, I applaud you.

" including myself already pointed out at the time that the return of the injured players was going to improve the team significantly and 9th was a virtual position, that obviously wasn't our level.

We then made big improvements to the squad the next season. I think the progress you are talking about, some might be Xavi, but the vast majority is just the squad getting back to normal and improving significantly."


You just didn't think that one through, one of the many statements you make here, that you have to dial back by 5 after thinking about it.

He did better because injured players came back from being injured and we signed a few players in January.

No shit Sherlock, that's how every team improves, kloop was their improving the team without signings and playing the exact XI he for from day 1, so basically every manager ever.

 

[ajnotkeith]

He did better because injured players came back from being injured

Yes, when you have a large part of your team injured, it isn't necessarily wise to quote those results at that time as a true representation of your teams level.

Saying he 'took over with the team 9th' suggests that we were worse than we actually were, it was in November with many injuries. Quoting that league position means literally nothing without giving context.

 

[Horatio]

I don't absolve him of anything, I wanted him sold this summer

hmmm you left me a bit confused. Gonna continue my workout.

 

[jamrock]

Yes, when you have a large part of your team injured, it isn't necessarily wise to quote those results at that time as a true representation of your teams level.

Saying he 'took over with the team 9th' suggests that we were worse than we actually were, it was near the start of the season with many injuries.

The team improved after we made signings in January.

Something you tried to invalidate by signing it wasn't about xavi, it was about it signings and getting some players back from injury.

So he basically did what every coach in history has done and your tried to put a negative tint on that.

Facts are he took the team over in 9th we ended in 2nd including beating Madrid at home.

 

[ajnotkeith]

The team improved after we made signings in January.

Something you tried to invalidate by signing it wasn't about xavi, it was about it signings and getting some players back from injury.

So he basically did what every coach in history has done and your tried to put a negative tint on that.

Facts are he took the team over in 9th we ended in 2nd including beating Madrid at home.

You said yourself...

"He did better because injured players came back from being injured and we signed a few players in January.

"No shit Sherlock, that's how every team improves"

Now saying the improvement is because of Xavi as well? Why are you involving degrees of nuance in your answer that you didn't bother to give to mine in your strawman?

 

[serghei]

Of course you also need better players to improve. Notice how the team got better when our new 60m signing Olmo came on? Everything clicks better if you have better players.

 

[ajnotkeith]

Of course you also need better players to improve. Notice how the team got better when our new 60m signing Olmo came on?

You do... the whole point of what I was saying though is 9th wasn't really a true representation of the team at the time, because so many had been injured, it made the team look worse than it was.

The starting point was never that bad and that's why we recovered quickly.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

🥸

 

[jamrock]

You said yourself...

"He did better because injured players came back from being injured and we signed a few players in January.

"No shit Sherlock, that's how every team improves"

Now saying the improvement is because of Xavi as well? Why are you involving degrees of nuance in your answer that you didn't bother to give to mine in your strawman?

Ah nope

Yes that's how every team improves, but you tried to paint it in a negative light as it relates to a coach that you don't rate.

Oh it wasn't xavi, we just got better players.

Every team improves with better players, it's a necessity.

Once everyone is back fit, olmo improves the team, it flick wins the league, will you say, its not so much flick, we got injured players back and olmo improves the team, if we go on to win the league? Which is an improvement from last season?.

If that's your line of argument you have to be consistent with it across the board.

If like when people try to shade pep, because he signs good players.

 

[Joan]

Flick has Araujo, de Jong, Christensen, and Gavi out with injurie, 4 of the last season's starters. There are also Bernal and Fati out, he lost Gundogan, two Joaos and forced to rely on guys like Casado. The only addition is Olmo. Worse situation yet producing higher quality than Xavi did. Early days but that's what you call improvement.

 

[jamrock]

Flick has Araujo, de Jong, Christensen, and Gavi out with injurie, 4 of the last season's starters. There are also Bernal and Fati out, he lost Gundogan, two Joaos and forced to rely on guys like Casado. The only addition is Olmo. Worse situation yet producing higher quality than Xavi did. Early days but that's what you call improvement.

Xavi has
Christensen
De jong
Gavi
Pedri
Blade
Mats

All out last season

 

[Joan]

Ah nope

Yes that's how every team improves, but you tried to paint it in a negative light as it relates to a coach that you don't rate.

Oh it wasn't xavi, we just got better players.

Every team improves with better players, it's a necessity.

Once everyone is back fit, olmo improves the team, it flick wins the league, will you say, its not so much flick, we got injured players back and olmo improves the team, if we go on to win the league? Which is an improvement from last season?.

If that's your line of argument you have to be consistent with it across the board.

If like when people try to shade pep, because he signs good players.

The point is, unless you're a toot once you sign good players the team improves. Managers sometimes deserve credit, sometimes not. Sometimes it happens in spite of the manager.

 

[ajnotkeith]

Ah nope

Yes that's how every team improves, but you tried to paint it in a negative light as it relates to a coach that you don't rate.

Oh it wasn't xavi, we just got better players.

Every team improves with better players, it's a necessity.

Once everyone is back fit, olmo improves the team, it flick wins the league, will you say, its not so much flick, we got injured players back and olmo improves the team, if we go on to win the league? Which is an improvement from last season?.

If that's your line of argument you have to be consistent with it across the board.

If like when people try to shade pep, because he signs good players.

I agree, some of the improvement is going to be due to signings always under every manager, no matter what.

The question is how much is the players and how much is the manager. Xavi definitely tactically improved the team particularly during that first season also, but that wasn't even my point overall.

My point was much more specifically referring to the quoting of 9th place and how that gets misrepresented. We weren't actually ever going to finish 9th, it was November and we had a lot of injuries,, so quoting 9th out of context as if we were a mid table team spins the reality a bit, the starting point wasn't actually that bad and we were never 'middle of the pack' in reality. Table positions near the start of the season especially when a team has a lot of injuries don't mean that much and I don't think it should be given as evidence without the context I mentioned.

Yes, we were in bad form, due to mass injury and internal turmoil, but it was never going to last, whether under Xavi or another manager. You could conversely say Xavi did well to get us 2nd place, which he did.

 

[jamrock]

The point is, unless you're a toot once you sign good players the team improves. Managers sometimes deserve credit, sometimes not. Sometimes it happens in spite of the manager.

I've never seen a team improved in spite of a manager