How to approach the rebuild

[FCBarca]

+1
You singled out the correct players I think.
I don't think the club can expect to get a lot of money for these players, but many of them could probably be included in good swap deals I think?
I listed some suggestions in the transfer thread...

Recouperating the initial wasted transfer fees are a pointless exercise, shed the dead weight should be the aim

Quite a bit in attack is linked to Ansu's health/future - will he have the same burst, will he still be a threat out wide or will his knee force him into the midfield or forward position? Depay can play anywhere in that front line. Konrad & Collado will provide additional width options while Kun will provide needed scoring depth off bench should we land a legitimate goalscoring forward to start

I think we need another midfielder in the mold of a physical/intelligent box to box player but that need may be filled by either Nico or Jandro and this summer we should see

Ideally, Xavi already named coach and can start evaluating what is available - mid to longterm planning predicated on knowing who will lead the 1st team since there is now stability & vision at the administrative level of the club

 

[Messi983]

It's not about me letting him go. It's that we can't sell him without taking a big loss so why not just give him a fair chance (more than 600 minutes he's played this season) when our only other option at the position is also a well past his prime Busi who can barely walk.

 

[Andresito]

It's not about me letting him go. It's that we can't sell him without taking a big loss so why not just give him a fair chance (more than 600 minutes he's played this season) when our only other option at the position is also a well past his prime Busi who can barely walk.

I'm fairly sure Pjanic would just be a worse version of Busquets.

 

[Messi983]

I'm fairly sure Pjanic would just be a worse version of Busquets.

But we don't know that. We've seen Busi underperforming for years, why not give Pjanić a run of 5-10 games in the starting lineup to see what he can do?

 

[Bobo32]

Recouperating the initial wasted transfer fees are a pointless exercise, shed the dead weight should be the aim

Quite a bit in attack is linked to Ansu's health/future - will he have the same burst, will he still be a threat out wide or will his knee force him into the midfield or forward position? Depay can play anywhere in that front line. Konrad & Collado will provide additional width options while Kun will provide needed scoring depth off bench should we land a legitimate goalscoring forward to start

I think we need another midfielder in the mold of a physical/intelligent box to box player but that need may be filled by either Nico or Jandro and this summer we should see

Ideally, Xavi already named coach and can start evaluating what is available - mid to longterm planning predicated on knowing who will lead the 1st team since there is now stability & vision at the administrative level of the club

Yeah, but maybe Atletico would be interested in Griezmann, can Barcelona get Felix for a bit cheaper then?
Liverpool search for a winger I heard, I can see them wanting either Dembele or Coutinho. I want Thiago...
Pjanic for Pedro was another one...

I don't want Depay and I don't think it's the b2b type that is needed as I see both Frenkie and Ilaix as that type, even Pedri to an extent, and then there's Nico and Orellana who both lean towards that role as well when playing as interiors. What is lacking is a playmaker type in midfield I think, although I have big hopes on Puig there...

 

[FCBarca]

I think it's been mentioned in a different thread but swap deals are not common so I struggle to see Cerezo signing off on Griezmann's return to send Felix the other direction - it'd be a good deal for us, even for them but I don't see it

If Mbappe is indeed headed to RM then perhaps PSG would be interested in Griezmann but United might be a better option

Liverpool definitely could use a winger like Dembele but I imagine Chelsea might be interested to reunite him with Tuchel. Thiago window has closed IMHO but I would love to have him back as part of the rotation

Depay is not ideal but zero fee, versatile across the front line and still a player in his prime who can actually link up in our style of game as opposed to Antoine - makes a lot of sense IMHO. I also don't see him as a midfielder but a player in that attacking third

Puig, under Xavi will illustrate the idiocy of the Bartomeu reign of terror w/ coaching/playing approaches

 

[Andresito]

But we don't know that. We've seen Busi underperforming for years, why not give Pjanić a run of 5-10 games in the starting lineup to see what he can do?

Because nothing actually points towards that. Same as saying Braithwaite should be given a run of games to see if he'll be better than Griezmann.

 

[khaled_a_d]

I don't disagree with your point but the problem is players in their prime these days are either totally off the market (key players in other top clubs that don't want to sell them) or very expensive.

I disagree.
Players from midtable Liga teams, or French teams outside of PSG aren't that expensive.
Look at players like Gaya for example, 26 and playing his best ball, could be available for around 15M for example.
Depay is a good example too, although I don't like the fit.
Other clubs like Atletico do it all the time. Nowadays actually players 25-28 are less expensive that those 21-24 as teams now are charging extra fee on potential rather than being proven through the years.

How much would 23 years old R10 or Eto'o cost today?

Would probably cost us 70M or something to get the next Eto from a club like Mallorca. Best comparison in the market would be someone like Isaac who is rumored to be in the market for 5-70M.
Back then, our revenue was less than 200M IIRC, 1/3 of our revenue in covid and 1/4 of our revenue in 1/4 revenue before it.
So overall, looks even more affordable if we get our wage bill checked.

R10 is an interesting case, would be closer to Haaland most likely, a player we are very much interested and trying to get.

But as I said, those two aren't my main comparison actually. It is the Emdilson, Marquez, Gio, Belletti, Larson, Deco of the world.
I think we can pretty much find such players in the market for decent prices, as I gave example of Depay and Gaya.
A good scouting department, lead by 2 experienced SD who are very involved in Liga for decades should be capable of finding those.

- Draxler could be an option for midfield but I prefer to give a chance to our youngsters
- Calhanoglu - the same as for Draxler
- Hysaj - I'd rather keep faith in Dest and bring back Emerson

This is where I disagree, I prefer to get some of this players than "giving our youth a chance"
We already have enough youth, and we already need to take some of the minutes they are getting, not the opposite.
This is the whole point of my past reply, relying too much on cantera is a recipe for disaster and an awful rebuild.
Players being rushed too early is a real thing, players being burned early due to playing a bigger role than they should is also very real.
How many youngsters do we already have? Pedri, Moriba, Puig, Nico? How many older players we want to move out? Pjanic/Busquets/Roberto? How many players in their prime? Only FDJ
This is a very unhealthy environment to develop youngsters, that we should avoid next years.

 

[Andresito]

I disagree.
Players from midtable Liga teams, or French teams outside of PSG aren't that expensive.
Look at players like Gaya for example, 26 and playing his best ball, could be available for around 15M for example.
Depay is a good example too, although I don't like the fit.
Other clubs like Atletico do it all the time. Nowadays actually players 25-28 are less expensive that those 21-24 as teams now are charging extra fee on potential rather than being proven through the years.

Tbf the 1993-1996 generation is pretty meh. Not a lot of world class players despite them supposedly being in their primes. The next generation (1997-2000) is a lot stronger, and I think more of those will be WC than the previous ones.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Tbf the 1993-1996 generation is pretty meh. Not a lot of world class players despite them supposedly being in their primes. The next generation (1997-2000) is a lot stronger, and I think more of those will be WC than the previous ones.

I think that is fair when it comes to top players, but not for squad players or solid starters

 

[Andresito]

I think that is fair when it comes to top players, but not for squad players or solid starters

Jump between squad player and solid starter is pretty big no? Especially for Barca.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Jump between squad player and solid starter is pretty big no? Especially for Barca.

A club like Barca need both, and tbh there should be no big jump when it comes to 12-14th man from the bench and the starters.

 

[Messi983]

Players from midtable Liga teams, or French teams outside of PSG aren't that expensive.

Sure, but are they good enough? Maybe they can be squad players but at this point we need to spend whatever money we have to bring starting quality CB, a striker and a DM/CM (depends on where FDJ's future is; we should decide about that once and for all and then bring players depending on that). Squad depth can be build with free agents (Depay and/or Kun, Wijnaldum, Garcia), La Masia and maybe some cheaper signings if we find someone that could bring something we lack to the team for affordable price.

No doubt Gaya could be an option here. I didn't mention him because I was focusing on players with expiring contracts this or next year but he would clearly be a very good signing who could challenge Alba for his spot (unless a youngster like Balde) so I'd take him if possible. I just don't think he'll actually be available for as cheap as people believe and I don't think we're in a position to pay like 30-40m for him with more urgent needs at striker and CB. From what I've read some time ago Valencia wants to keep him and Soler as key players of their next team and will do anything to extend their contracts. Even if Gaya would reject a new contract he still has two more years on his current deal so they can keep him until next year if they don't get an offer that would please them. This summer they'll probably sell Kang-in Lee (whose contract is expiring next year and doesn't want to renew) and maybe Guedes or Maxi Gomez. So I don't think they have to sell Gaya for 15m. But if they would then we should be the first in line.

Other clubs like Atletico do it all the time. Nowadays actually players 25-28 are less expensive that those 21-24 as teams now are charging extra fee on potential rather than being proven through the years.

I don't disagree with your point but would you be willing to throw 35m for someone like Joan Jordan for example? He fits your "criteria", he'll turn 27 in two months and is a 2 year starter for a CL team with around 180 total games in La Liga. So he could be "Raki like" signing for possible twice the price and in totally different situation (from a financial standpoint) we're in now than we were 7 years ago when we were last doing a big rebuild.

Or would it be better to invest that money in someone like Boubakary Soumare who is almost 5 years younger with higher potential but OTOH probably also higher chances to flop? I'm not suggesting we should sign Jordan and Soumare (whom I wouldn't mind) is apparently on his way to Leicester so we won't get either of them. They are probably also not the best players to compare profile-wise but I'm just throwing around two names that first came to my mind to point out a dilemma.

Is having "more experience and being in his prime years" enough to take a player who will probably get you better immediate results (there is no guarantee for that though as we've seen with some other "proven" players we've bought) but will very likely (but not surely) turn out to be an inferior player longterm (which is what should be considered when rebuilding)? Or do we take a risk with another younger player and add him to the mix of youngsters already at the club? Soumare has played around 80 games in Ligue 1 so he has more top level experience than Ilaix, Puig, Nico and Pedri but he's probably still a few years away from being ready as a starter for a top team (unless we push him which you dislike).

I know who most people here would prefer between Jordan and Soumare (and again, just using them as example; we could insert different players of similar profile age and experience wise) but what's the right move for the club? I think they'd both improve the team but the answer to that question is not really that easy imo.

Players being rushed too early is a real thing, players being burned early due to playing a bigger role than they should is also very real.
How many youngsters do we already have? Pedri, Moriba, Puig, Nico? How many older players we want to move out? Pjanic/Busquets/Roberto? How many players in their prime? Only FDJ
This is a very unhealthy environment to develop youngsters, that we should avoid next years.

The only one I'd push out is Busi. For a simple reason I don't want to see him as a starter anymore and I think the only way he's not a starter is if he's not here. It won't happen though so I'm counting on him being here next season and still limiting us on the pitch even if we'll make some improvements in other parts of the team.

I've singled out some under 30 players in that list but outside of Wijnaldum (if signed on a max. 2 year contract assuming Koeman stays which I still think he will) I don't see this years free agents midfielders as too interesting. I'd rather keep Pjanić (since we'd have to take a big financial loss to offload him and Koeman won't pencil him in as a starter unless he'll do well) than bring someone like Draxler or Calhanoglu who would demand longer term contracts and probably be considered a hard to get rid off dead weight in a year as well. Also keep Roberto as a 4th/5th midfielder (unless we get a good offer we can't refuse which is unlikely) for one more year. Now if we could get Goretzka or Kessie from that 2022 free agent list that's another story. But Goretzka is just a pipe dream and Kessie also not very likely.

I'd send Puig on loan and keep Nico in Barca B while training and occasionally play for the first team. And Ilaix should be slowly integrated into the team, not being a first sub off the bench in crucial games.

 

[serghei]

Draxler + Depay would be interesting additions for no transfer fee. Get these two and sell Coutinho and Dembele for whatever we can get.

 

[DonAK]

Draxler is the definition of mediocre though.

I agree with signing more players between the ages of 24-28 and that free agents/players with a one year contract left should be looked at, but I'd hate to see us sign players just for the sake of it.